Bob Cat Copy Falcon 120 Jet
#4726
My Feedback: (42)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus ,oh
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
really, thanks.. all these years .. so the elevator provides thrust.. and the motor provides flight attitude?
thanks troll.
bet you mount your pusher props with the writing facing rearward too.
thanks troll.
bet you mount your pusher props with the writing facing rearward too.
#4729
My Feedback: (42)
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Columbus ,oh
Posts: 224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
since you moved the direction of force forward ahead the CG the pitching moment changes.
this is no different than changing the angle of the stabilizer. as airspeed increases the force applied to it would also increase. this is why you need more control input as airspeed reduces.
vectored thrust changes the direction of force as related to the CG. not the total amount of thrust produced. now airspeed, lift, drag can all be effected. Weight stays the same(although fuel is being burned, unless its electric).
If you a flight engineer, must explain why the didn't move you to the control yoke. and left you to watch the dials.
this is no different than changing the angle of the stabilizer. as airspeed increases the force applied to it would also increase. this is why you need more control input as airspeed reduces.
vectored thrust changes the direction of force as related to the CG. not the total amount of thrust produced. now airspeed, lift, drag can all be effected. Weight stays the same(although fuel is being burned, unless its electric).
If you a flight engineer, must explain why the didn't move you to the control yoke. and left you to watch the dials.
#4730
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Co. Donegal, IRELAND
Posts: 2,760
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You got it right in the first line "pitching moment" the actual thrust angle dos'nt change, if the turbines tail is point down and as thrust is a reaction force then the thrust is up.
It is this up thrust that causes a planes nose to PITCH down if mounted behind the CG and Pitch up if mounted in front, that is why we normally add down thrust on our conventional tractor engine models.
You cant call it down thrust at the front and down thrust at the rear if the engine/turbine is mounted at a different angle.
Dont blame me blame Newton
And by the way I dont use pusher props on my rear engine aircraft, I change the timing of the engine so they can run in reverse and so use conventional tractor props .
It is this up thrust that causes a planes nose to PITCH down if mounted behind the CG and Pitch up if mounted in front, that is why we normally add down thrust on our conventional tractor engine models.
You cant call it down thrust at the front and down thrust at the rear if the engine/turbine is mounted at a different angle.
Dont blame me blame Newton
And by the way I dont use pusher props on my rear engine aircraft, I change the timing of the engine so they can run in reverse and so use conventional tractor props .
#4734
Thats fine, but if by taking the comments made by those that have been involved with this airframe from the early days enables you to understand the airframe better is that not of benefit? its what we are all trying to do, knowledge and experience is useless unless it is passed on.
Mike
Mike
Last edited by BaldEagel; 04-24-2014 at 02:29 PM.
#4735
since you moved the direction of force forward ahead the CG the pitching moment changes.
this is no different than changing the angle of the stabilizer. as airspeed increases the force applied to it would also increase. this is why you need more control input as airspeed reduces.
vectored thrust changes the direction of force as related to the CG. not the total amount of thrust produced. now airspeed, lift, drag can all be effected. Weight stays the same(although fuel is being burned, unless its electric).
If you a flight engineer, must explain why the didn't move you to the control yoke. and left you to watch the dials.
this is no different than changing the angle of the stabilizer. as airspeed increases the force applied to it would also increase. this is why you need more control input as airspeed reduces.
vectored thrust changes the direction of force as related to the CG. not the total amount of thrust produced. now airspeed, lift, drag can all be effected. Weight stays the same(although fuel is being burned, unless its electric).
If you a flight engineer, must explain why the didn't move you to the control yoke. and left you to watch the dials.
#4737
#4738
#4739
My Feedback: (3)
Joseph:
I found that if you raise the engine about 1/4" at the front of the mount you will get the needed down thrust. Also, one other thing to note is that elevator neutral on this plane is obtained with a straight edge along the TOP of the stab and the top of the elevator flush with the straight edge. For landing I use 35 deg. of flaps and this requires approximately 3/16" of DOWN elevator. The Tornado manual says to use up elevator mix with the 35 deg. of flaps but trust me this is not correct (did that on the first flight and the plane hovered for a few seconds before I removed the flaps, throttled up and flew out of the HOVER) Let me know if I can be of any assistance. You can PM me if you like.
Ed
I found that if you raise the engine about 1/4" at the front of the mount you will get the needed down thrust. Also, one other thing to note is that elevator neutral on this plane is obtained with a straight edge along the TOP of the stab and the top of the elevator flush with the straight edge. For landing I use 35 deg. of flaps and this requires approximately 3/16" of DOWN elevator. The Tornado manual says to use up elevator mix with the 35 deg. of flaps but trust me this is not correct (did that on the first flight and the plane hovered for a few seconds before I removed the flaps, throttled up and flew out of the HOVER) Let me know if I can be of any assistance. You can PM me if you like.
Ed
#4741
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Co. Donegal, IRELAND
Posts: 2,760
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The rocket thrusted upwards, You thrust up, you thrust forward.
#4742
You are not looking at this correctly, Thrust is a reactive force, it is what it makes the object do, a rocket sitting pointing up, the jet blast out the bottom, makes the rocket go up, that is why it is referred to as up thrust.
The rocket thrusted upwards, You thrust up, you thrust forward.
The rocket thrusted upwards, You thrust up, you thrust forward.
#4744
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Huntersville,
NC
Posts: 496
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe this will help. Ive found that sometimes pictures can help a lot when words alone can't convey the physics. In this case thrust, mass expelled and the resultant pitch.
Cheers.
Cheers.
#4748
This was a spirited discussion on thrust angle of the Falcon/Navy Cat, NO flaming,name calling or derogitory statments were made by any member. I lost my first turbine on maided because I was told on RCU to put in "Down" thrust by pointing the nozzle "up"or the nose of the turbine down and I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea from this thread. Use the picture of gsoav8r and you won't be wrong. I would consider Baldeagle and Xairflier as friends and hope they would consider me as theirs. This IS on topic as we were trying to clear up any misunderstanding about thrust angles for the falcon/Navy Cat. Do we want a new flyer crashing or quitting jets because they were misinformed or misunderstood what was being written here? Now This reply is off topic but needed explaination.
#4749
All this just confuses things more far better to keep it simple and describe so as no confusion
just have the front of the turbine higher than the rear by a small amount. Can't be any more simple than that
Some people have a knack of complicating that which is simple
just have the front of the turbine higher than the rear by a small amount. Can't be any more simple than that
Some people have a knack of complicating that which is simple