Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING

Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Futaba FASST feedback and TESTING

Old 04-09-2008, 10:11 PM
  #701  
DougV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Miramar, FL
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Hi JC,

Check this out!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7354476/tm.htm

Doug.
Old 04-09-2008, 11:09 PM
  #702  
JCINTEXAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Smithville, TX
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Doug,
Thanks for the link. I'm looking at it now.
Regards
JC
Old 04-10-2008, 01:27 AM
  #703  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Interesting!
Old 04-10-2008, 07:12 AM
  #704  
rhklenke
My Feedback: (24)
 
rhklenke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,997
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 20 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

The real question is, is that necessary? Early feedback was that carbon fiber did not really affect the signal strength. If flite metal doesn't, I can't see carbon fiber being more of an RF blocker...

Is this a case of somebody *actually having an issue* with carbon fiber of just guys saying that it must be bad, so we need a "fix."

Bob
Old 04-10-2008, 07:24 AM
  #705  
schroedm
My Feedback: (1)
 
schroedm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: SevenoaksKent, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 5,193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Agreed. At no point does it say "we are having a problem with our Futaba FAAST setups in carbon fuselages....". It is talking about how the JR/Spektrum guys are configuring their satellite RXs - that's all really.

I wouldn't worry until someone proves the FAAST doesn't like carbon!

Old 04-10-2008, 08:10 AM
  #706  
JCINTEXAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Smithville, TX
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Regarding the question of how metal may affect the 2.4GHz RF signal:
I have done extensive testing on various "signal blocking" materials and objects.
In these tests, the Futaba 6EX signal has sucessfully penetrated all of the following:
- the steel wall of a metal building (aircraft hangar)
- a Chevy Suburban
- a Mazda minivan
- a 30 gallon aquarium (filled with water and tropical fish)
- 100 plus feet of dense trees and brush
- a Sony Home Theater Receiver (including metal cabinet and 23 pounds
of electronics)
- 4 walls of my house

These tests were conducted with 'hostile' 2.4GHz emitters in close proximity to the 6EX FASST receiver while the FASST transmitter was located at a distance and behind the various obstacles listed above. (The 'hostile" 2.4GHz emitters included a 2.4GHz cordless phone...a 2.4GHz WiFi router...and a 2.4GHz Futaba 7C transmitter).

In all tests, the RF signal lock remained solid with a steady green light on the receiver and servos operating as per normal.

I have not conducted any tests with carbon fibre materials. However, the results of tests I have done on various other materials have been impressive.

Regards
JC
Old 04-10-2008, 11:17 AM
  #707  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Post 52 and 53 show my test with the RX inside a metal tailpipe and inside a carbon fuselage.

Worked fine.
Must say i agree, just how much of this concern is valid!

Someone has to do it to prove the point....now where is that carbon...
Old 04-10-2008, 07:17 PM
  #708  
JCINTEXAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Smithville, TX
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Bob,
Do you have anything new to report on the large UPVs you've been working with? A couple of months ago you posted some interesting information and pictures and reported the Futaba 2.4GHz had worked well in that aircraft. I found your info very interesting especially since you are working with extreme conditions not likely to be encountered with the typical RC aircraft.
Regards
JC
Old 04-10-2008, 08:41 PM
  #709  
tailwheel234
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
tailwheel234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Quick question for those in the Futaba 2.4 world. Looking at purchasing some 7 channel rx's and wondering what the real difference is in the R607FS and the R617FS? Surely there is something other than the case color different, right??? Sorry its off topic, but confused a little bit. Thanks!!!

-Philip
Old 04-10-2008, 08:46 PM
  #710  
Ron S
My Feedback: (2)
 
Ron S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 2,233
Received 205 Likes on 125 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

JC,

Regarding your testing you've done, specifically the 30 gallon fishy tank, what kind of fish were used during the test? Did you try electric eels? Could present a problem...
I have the 8 channel module and receiver now, but I won't have time for a few weeks to try installing it. [:@] If all goes well, I'll get the 14 channel module/receiver. I'm glad you guys are having success. [8D]
Old 04-10-2008, 09:15 PM
  #711  
afterburner
My Feedback: (18)
 
afterburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New City, NY
Posts: 3,021
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6


ORIGINAL: tailwheel234

Quick question for those in the Futaba 2.4 world. Looking at purchasing some 7 channel rx's and wondering what the real difference is in the R607FS and the R617FS? Surely there is something other than the case color different, right??? Sorry its off topic, but confused a little bit. Thanks!!!

-Philip
I think it was how the channels are sequenced making the 617 faster for the tail on helis. I think for planes it doesn't really make a difference. There could be more to it so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt.

Marty
Old 04-10-2008, 11:15 PM
  #712  
tailwheel234
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
tailwheel234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Ok, I was thinking something was up there. Just wish Futaba provided a little more info on their website about the differences and why they keep two so closely priced same items.... just confused.

-Philip
Old 04-11-2008, 01:49 AM
  #713  
siclick33
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: York, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,743
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Just wish Futaba provided a little more info on their website about the differences and why they keep two so closely priced same items.... just confused.
http://2.4gigahertz.com/faq/faq-fasst-q926.html
Old 04-11-2008, 06:46 AM
  #714  
JCINTEXAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Smithville, TX
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6


ORIGINAL: Ron S

JC,

Regarding your testing you've done, specifically the 30 gallon fishy tank, what kind of fish were used during the test? Did you try electric eels? Could present a problem...
__________________________________________________ ____________
No electric eels, but I think they work on 72MHz anyway. My wife tells me the fish we have are: Kissing Gourami, Chinese Algae Eater, Black Neon Tetra, and Kribensis Cichlids.
Regards
JC


Old 04-11-2008, 06:51 AM
  #715  
rhklenke
My Feedback: (24)
 
rhklenke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,997
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 20 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

JC,

We have been continuing to fly the 2.4 GHz in both the Micropilot CropCam UAV (an electric sailplane) and the Outlaw. We haven't had any issues with the Futaba gear in either one. We did loose one of the Outlaws to the failure of a HiTech servo (which is yet another reason why I will *never* fly those again), but all other operations have been normal - and we fly these airplanes further out than you normally would in a model...

Bob
Old 04-11-2008, 06:58 AM
  #716  
JCINTEXAS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Smithville, TX
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Bob,
Thanks for this update. Please send us some more pictures of the UAVs.
Regards
JC
Old 04-11-2008, 08:10 AM
  #717  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

rhklenke


Good feedback on the FASST,how many flights now?

Paul
Old 04-11-2008, 08:22 AM
  #718  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

I have changed my aerial set up in the L39 (pics later).
However, while doing so I managed to cut into one of the aerials insulation and screen.[&o][>:]

This is very easy to do so be very carefull when 'hacking'.
Unlike conventional aerials any damage is not acceptable.
Anyway,
Ripmax have spares and a phone call yesterday saw the arrival of a replacement aerial this morning. [sm=shades_smile.gif]
Great service, well done Ripmax Futaba Service Dpt. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

I will be changing it this afternoon and will take some pics to show 'how it is done'.
I don’t think it is going to be rocket science but it may prove useful to some.

Paul
Old 04-11-2008, 08:35 AM
  #719  
tailwheel234
Senior Member
My Feedback: (1)
 
tailwheel234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Thanks man, I looked through those FAQ's but must have missed it. I will go with the R617FS just to be on the safe side. Thanks again!

-Philip
Old 04-11-2008, 09:15 AM
  #720  
Gary Arthur
My Feedback: (29)
 
Gary Arthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hamilton, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6



During the Toledo show I was able to talk directly with the folks at Futaba. We expressed our concern about the low voltage signal from the R6014FS receiver. We also expressed concern about Futaba's silence regarding this issue. I received this letter from Futaba USA. This letter suggests the 14 ch. rx signal voltage is intentional to attain the speed required to process the data fast enough and clean enough for the 14 ch to function. Since this low voltage signal is required, it would suggest there will not be any new 6114 rx in the future.

Here is the letter


Futaba Product Advisory- R6014FS Receiver

Whereas many previous receivers offered a signal output of 3.0 Volts, the latest generation of IC’s has been designed to operate at lower voltages in order to increase their operational speeds. The R6014FS receiver utilizes such an IC and, as such, the nominal output voltage of the R6014FS receiver is 2.7 Volts.

While this variance in the output voltage will not affect most equipment in use today, it has been brought to our attention that some manufacturer’s products are not capable of operation with the lower voltage. That is, they will not operate below 3.0 volts. Some examples of what we have had reported thus far includes sequencers, cut-off valves, older servo designs and some recent non-Futaba digital servos.

Some battery back-up devices might have difficulties with the lower operational voltages as well, although they might not appear to initially. One such device appears to function perfectly on the ground and during a range check, yet when the operational temperature reaches 500 C (1220 F), the device actually requires 2.8 Volts in order to function properly. As such, the servos will cease to operate properly.

Many of the manufacturers are updating, or refining their products to ensure compatibility with the lower operational voltages. Should you have any questions about the operation of such peripheral items we strongly suggest that you contact the manufacturer directly.

If you have already purchased items which are not capable of operation below 3.0 Volts, we suggest that you either replace the item with an updated version or utilize a device to increase the voltage accordingly. Examples of such devices include: ElectroDynamics’ Buffer- Amplifier Interface, Duralite’s PowerBox (manufactured within the last six months), EMcotec’s DPSI products, etc.
Old 04-11-2008, 09:59 AM
  #721  
rhklenke
My Feedback: (24)
 
rhklenke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 5,997
Likes: 0
Received 33 Likes on 20 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Gary,

As I mentioned in the other Futaba thread, its a by product of advancing IC technology. Power dissapation in an IC is a function of the supply voltage squared times the operating frequency of the internal digital logic (and a copule of other factors). As chips get faster, you have to reduce the supply voltage in order to keep the power (and thus the heat being dissipated) in the IC down. Its likely that the internal supply voltage on the processors we both used to post these messages is 1.8V or less - specifically to keep the power dissipation (heat) down. On a chip as big and expensive as a processor, you can affort to put on the extra resources to bump the I/O signal voltages up to normal PCB voltages (actually 3.3V or less themselves now a days), but on something like an RC receiver/decoder chip, you can't afford to do that.

As I've said before, Futaba has effectively issued a new standard for signaling voltages in RC applications and I never really thought that they would change it. As a 3rd party vendor, HiTech wil likely make any necessary changes to insure that their servos work OK with this lower signal voltage fairly quickly (although I personally wonder why anybody flys those things - see above, YMMV). You will likely see JR/Spektrum stuff operating at these new voltages sometime in the future as well as they move to newer IC fabrication technologies - especially if they are coming out with a generation 2 system that uses FHSS instead of the current "Rube Goldberg" approach...

Bob
Old 04-11-2008, 10:17 AM
  #722  
Gary Arthur
My Feedback: (29)
 
Gary Arthur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hamilton, ON, CANADA
Posts: 1,436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Bob

I understand what you are saying in your post. It is good to finally put to rest all the speculation of whether it is an intentional design change or an oversight.

Now that we all know it is an intentional change, one that is basically leading the industry, we will see others following. Aftermarket suppliers will adapt to the new standard and the end user will need to be educated and show caution when mixing and matching various components both old and new.

One thing to mention that has been mentioned earlier, is Futaba's FASST system has an incredible link between the Tx and Rx. there have not been any reports of lost signals.

In my shop, I was setting up my F15 and one servo became jittery. At first I thought oh no, here we go with an issue. Then I checked my Rx battery and it was below 3 volts. I guess I was too focused on setting up the plane and left the RX on for a while until the voltage dropped so low. Interesting enough, the Rx kept functioning.

I am not sold on the hitech servo conclusion you have reached. I read that you lost a RPV due to a servo failure, but this was one servo out of how many you have used in the past. I am sure other brands also have a certain number of failures. I for one have had other brands fail and go full throw in one direction (one Jr and one Futaba). Maybe you can give more details on the failure and if there are some very serious issues, we could all become more enlightened.

So far this thread has been very informative. Lets keep up the stream of information that allows us to move ahead with our hobby.
Old 04-11-2008, 02:11 PM
  #723  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

Ok How to change an aerial lead on a 8 channel FASST rx


The info supplied is for those who are happy to undertake this work their self.
You should consider any possible issues with warranty.
If you are not confident then return your rx to Futaba service for the change.

In principle it is very easy to do but there are a few areas you need to be very careful.

Before you start make sure the area you are working on is clean and dry (and your hands!) I did the work on a piece of white paper.

Pic 1: The replacement lead, very nice quality coax clip connector.


Pic 2: RX and replacement lead ready.


Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Sq46680.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	19.9 KB
ID:	927546   Click image for larger version

Name:	Cx74635.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	23.7 KB
ID:	927547  
Old 04-11-2008, 02:15 PM
  #724  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

There are 4 plastic moulded clips on the case.

Pic 3: Carefully unclip 2 on one side and pull apart the case.

Pic 4:Case back removed.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us53446.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	31.3 KB
ID:	927551   Click image for larger version

Name:	Yt62466.jpg
Views:	24
Size:	40.8 KB
ID:	927552  
Old 04-11-2008, 02:20 PM
  #725  
GrayUK
Thread Starter
 
GrayUK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Dunstable, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 3,601
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Futaba FASST 6

The main case must be removed from the rx pcb.
The pcb needs to be lifted parallel in the case before lifting the end that does not have the servo plugs on it.

Pic 5: Rx out of case, note the positions of the grommets.

Pic 6: Unclip the damage lead by pulling squarely away from the pcb, do not use excessive force it is not needed.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Db86140.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	34.6 KB
ID:	927561   Click image for larger version

Name:	Zu65578.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	43.8 KB
ID:	927562  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.