ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

Hmmmmmm.

David, as an AMA CD since 1989, what you stated above is true but not completely true.

Please note that I don not condone anybody cloning Bob’s kit and I hope the culprit would be found and brought to justice.


Regards

Ben

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Ben,

Respectfully you need to re read the AMA competition regulations booklet again and refresh yourself.


David Reid
Also a CD

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks to the wireless internet, I can report, from somewhere in western Arizona, we have located the clone.

I also noted that his turbine sounds like a leaf blower, and his retracts did not work either.

JWN

My Feedback: (42)

I hope your post was in jest. The model in your picture is a Bob-E-Cat from Electric Jet Models. It is in no way a clone of the BobCat given the fact that it was designed for an electric fan and has a wingspan of 47". If anyone bought one of these with the impresson that it was BVM BobCat, they need to have their eyes examined.

John

Woketman

My Feedback: (6)

I am certain that Matt was indeed jesting. Besides, the guy who bought one thinmking it was a BVM BobCat would also need his head examined!

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

If anyone who read my post with the impresson that it was serious....well let's just say they need to be examined.....

JWN

My Feedback: (42)

Due to the total lack of "smilies" in your post and the general difficulty in reading sarcasm across the internet, I have found it is more than just a good idea to be sure everyone is on the same page. You may feel my comment was was unwarranted, but I personally have seen people post messages which were even further from the truth and be totally serious about them.

John

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

well the E- cat has kool winglets,
IF BVM would make a composite wing for the bobcat.
Then I hope the add the winglets

how else to make a great kit better?

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

The above picture is an Electrc Jet Factory Bob-E-Cat. A electric powered sport plane . THe company has BVM's permission for producing this plane and it's other variants. It is based on the Bob Cat design. The one pictured is our 90 mm fan size. It had it's first public showing at the Tucson Jet Rally this weekend. Retracts were giving us problems with a leaking airline.

Tim Redelman

My Feedback: (36)

Matt, were talking about clones,, not clowns!

Tim

cactusflyer

My Feedback: (4)

Aw, now I'm REEELY confused! If BV put winglets on a composite wing "host" BobCat would that then become a Bob-E-Cat clone ?

We need a geneticist to log on!

Seriously, though there should be no tolerance to copying any kit and profiting from it....ever.

Check this out...from 1943!
John

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Naaah .. I think Tom Dodgen's winglet-equipped Bobcat preceded the Bob-E-Cat.

BTW, I think the Bobcat is closer to the DH Sea Vixen than to that German 'Flitzer' thing.... see http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/lione...SV50Index.html

Gordon

cactusflyer

My Feedback: (4)

But Gordon, the DH Sea Vixen............it's............well it's British! Don't accuse BV of THAT!

John

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

Originally posted by cactusflyer
But Gordon, the DH Sea Vixen............it's............well it's British!

LOL ! So is the jet engine ! (and the TV, telephone, etc ! )

Don't accuse BV of THAT!

Actually, I wish BV would do some British jets. I'd love to see some nice P120-sorta-sized high quality model of jets like the Panavia Tornado, Sepecat Jaguar, BAe Hawk, Hawker Hunter, Gloster Meteor, etc.

Later,
Gordon

cactusflyer

My Feedback: (4)

Ah, Yes, Lucas Electronics..............Masters of Darkness!! How does one get a Triumph started in the rain at night?


The Telephone? Next thing you know you are going to try to convince me that the Brits are responsible for Gormet Food!

The "Telly" was invented when Bell was an AMERICAN:

"A pioneer in the field of telecommunications, Alexander Graham Bell was born in 1847 in Edinburgh, Scotland. He moved to Ontario, and then to the United States, settling in Boston, before beginning his career as an inventor. Throughout his life, Bell had been interested in the education of deaf people. This interest lead him to invent the microphone and, in 1876, his "electrical speech machine," which we now call a telephone. News of his invention quickly spread throughout the country, even throughout Europe. By 1878, Bell had set up the first telephone exchange in New Haven, Connecticut. By 1884, long distance connections were made between Boston, Massachusetts and New York City. "

John

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

David

17. Disqualification: Exclusion.Contestants may
be disqualified or excluded from any or all events if
guilty of an infraction of contest rules, unsportsman-like
or discourteous conduct, infraction of good safe-ty
practice or procedure, or conduct detrimental to
the well-being of model aviation. If, after entry in an
event, a contestant is found to be ineligible to com-pete
in that event, all of the contestant’s flights in that
event are to be canceled and any awards won in that
event returned. If judged guilty of willful miscon-duct,
the contestant shall lose all claim to awards, and
shall be liable to expulsion from the contest site.
Repeated or particularly vicious acts of willful mis-conduct
may result in suspension or revocation of the
contestant’s model flier’s sporting license or in
expulsion of the contestant from membership in the
AMA. If action is taken to suspend the contestant’s
model flier’s sporting license, the contestant shall
have 14 days after notification in which to present in
writing why such action should not be taken. Any
action taken to revoke a contestant’s model flier’s
sporting license or to expel the contestant from mem-bership
in the AMA shall be taken in accordance
with the notification and hearing procedures set forth
in Article V, Section 3 of the AMA Bylaws.
who is eligible to take part in a following meet, as is
the case with FAI qualification meets, the three-day
rule applies.


Again, I do not support or condone the cloning/building/selling of Bob's kit. We know who bought the airplane. We know who sold it. Now we need to find out who actually cloned the airplane and bring him/her to justice.

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

c/f you should read the AMA contest regulations sometime. The CD has the right to den (post # 42)

Ghostrider

Let me explain something to ya my friend, I was Expelled, suspended, denied , banned , prohibited or whatever you want to call it from flying at the so called biggest jet meet in the US ( Superman ), reason: Being an Unsafe, incompetent and best of all a wreckless pilot according to the CD and some jet modelers that I have really no interest in knowing who they are although I have an idea as I've heard and learned who he is and the groupie that supported his complaint. So therefore like the CD director said to me ( I am not going to loose many years of my life due to an incompetent , irresponsble and wreckless pilot as yourself meaning me so dont show up here as I will make sure that you dont fly in my show. )

Just like told me over the phone Johnny I'm just calling to save you some money Dont show up in my show...... Click ( hang up )


My response to that was cancel my hotel and plane ticket and keep going about my business and fly where I'm welcome.


That gives you an idea of how much goes on, i didnt want to bring this out but David's reply to you really cought my attention.

Basically all that AMA deal means nothing as apparantly the CD has the last Word which is fully understandable from a business point of view, If I had an agent in my office that would cost me my business I would boot him right away too BUT I by all means would get prove that he's done such actions to put me out of business but that's just me I only operate a small company and only babysit 52 employees, no big deal right?

Best Regards.......... Johnny Hernandez


Last edited by Jetflyer 24 on 03-17-2003 at 2:50 PM





Johnny

I do not know the circumstance that led to what you explained above, therefor I could not comment about it.

All I was just trying to do was to correct David's misconception of what a CD could or could not do during an AMA sanctioned event.

Regards

Ben

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Ben,

Re read the first paragraph of the section you just posted.

In the case of cloneing.... since that is what this thread is all about..... Person #1 designs an airplane, incorporating into it well designed structures, person #2 uses the fiberglass parts as a male plug, pulls a set of molds from it and does not put the same type of structure in it, or uses a light glass cloth, or does not use the carbon fiber in there that person#1 used for the structure that is proven to his design. Then person #2 sells this airplane to person #3 as an airplane designed, and kitted by person #1.

This individual has #1 performed discourteous conduct....he has copied another individuals work, without the proper engineering he has plagerized.

#2 he may have compromised safety as he may have just "splashed" the appearance and may not have adequately selected the proper materials

#3 he certainly has performed conduct detrimental to the well being of model avaiation.

Just my opinions.


David Reid

JWN

My Feedback: (42)

Items #1 and 3 would go against the person who kitted and sold the model, not the owner. Therefore, it wouldn't affect who could or could not fly at a meet. Who's to decide #2? When was the last time a new kit on the market was put through an engineering review to determine it's safety? How about a proven kit that's new to the field? Who goes through it to be sure all glue joints are secure? It doesn't happen and I can promise there are less than a handful of people who could look inside a fuse and determine the glass layup is adequate for jet flight. With very few exceptions, a safety check is nothing more than someone grabbing the control surfaces and see if they can be pulled off easily.

The only way I can see BV is correct that clones would be banned from jet meets would be if he stated it as a contingency to his sponsoring the meet.

John

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Now that the "Cat is out of the bag" (BobCat clone that is).....Who is responsible for the clone?!?!?!? As consumers we need to know who is responsible. I'm in full support of banning the person(s) that are responsible for cloning the BobCat and then pawning it off as genuine. This IS fraud...Plain and simple!!!! It is one thing to come out with your own twin boom design and call it whatever you wish----It is quite another thing to copy a model and then pass it off as the real thing. Twin boom turbine sport models have been around for quite some time....I saw an example of one in a four year old RCJI. Who cares who came up with the first twin boom turbine model. The point is that it is STEALING to copy another model and pass it off as genuine. Now, will someone please tell us who did this?

Kevin

ghost_rider

My Feedback: (20)

David

I agree with you 100%.
I also agree with you that the culprit that cloned Bob's kit should be brought to justice.
I disagree with your post #21 where you stated "The CD has the right to deny ANYONE to fly at an AMA event at any time". I would add, "subject otherwise to the terms, exceptions and conditions of AMA policy" and then your statement will be 100% accurate.

Regards

Ben

JWN

My Feedback: (42)

So you want to ban everyone who clones a model eh? Better start looking around the industry. I was personally told by one kit company owner, not jet, that he directly copies other peoples work. This practice directly led to the name of the company! Another manuf, who does in fact do jets along with some other types of models, copied someone else's designs as well in their early days. They still sell a couple of these kits. One of these manufs is very well respected in the modeling community.

Just thought I'd throw those teasers out for you. No, I will not post the names here as it's not relevant. The point I'm trying to make is that just because a design is copied, doesn't mean they should be shunned by the rest of the world. Selling the copy as anything other than a copy? Now that I have an issue with. But if someone copied a Zippy Go Fast and called it a Sleek Streak, then so be it. If you don't copywrite a design, that's your fault. If you do, then you have legal grounds for compensation or other recourse.

John

c/f

My Feedback: (1)

Man,
This is some very interesting reading, some of the logic applied here as it relates to the elimination of a participant is classic.

As I understand this whole thread, if a guy shows up with this cloned model and represents it as a BV Bobcat, he is unsportmanlike, dangerous, hazardous and a host of other complaints by the CD, now if he shows up and calls it a "LOSER",
He's good to go, everythings cool, nice plane, glad you can make it, Does this sound like the intent of the AMA CD rule thats trying to be enforced in this situation?

Cloned models are in EVERY facet of the sport of RC, the only real differance here is the "NAME", and thats what sets this whole ball in motion?

David, I was aware of the CD rules I just did not figure this to be remotely part of what it reffers too. I do however think theres a host of laws on the books that BV could stand behind besides the AMA, I think it's sad that the AMA would side with BVM on this issue. I don't think it applies...

Crazy4Flight

My Feedback: (540)

I AM STILL WAITING....

1) For a picture of this clone
2) Name of the alledged seller of clone
3) Date and place of where this clone came from
4) Date and place where the clone was discovered

So far i read a lot of chatter about AMA and CDs about who can do what at an event.

All for the claim of a clone SHOW ME THE CLONE.

Bob Eckel

toucano

You guys should check out the "Grown men acting like kids" board - they are discussing the relative merits of AMT turbines.