I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
10-25-2007, 09:31 PM
#27
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: Woketman
Thanks!
Thanks!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87897819&hl=en
Last flight before crash
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...72340753&hl=en
What wrong with Google Video?I have same experience one year ago.[:@]
10-27-2007, 08:56 AM
#28
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
maybe a tip for your next project.
keep a fire extinguisher near you. Than you don't need a three to get the fire out. It also can safe extra damage to some parts of the plane.
And also say to you team-members. Not to stand on the wing when getting the fire out. There are servo's in the wing, they may be fine. But when somebody stand on it, you don't now what the problem could be why a servo's doesn't work (if it doesn't work after a crash)
keep a fire extinguisher near you. Than you don't need a three to get the fire out. It also can safe extra damage to some parts of the plane.
And also say to you team-members. Not to stand on the wing when getting the fire out. There are servo's in the wing, they may be fine. But when somebody stand on it, you don't now what the problem could be why a servo's doesn't work (if it doesn't work after a crash)
10-27-2007, 09:15 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: Trundle
Wait... do i hear Skymaster F-14? [X(]
Excuse me while i wipe the drool off of my chin
Man what cool projects you guys are coming up with!
ORIGINAL: pilot tw
Hi, Likai
Ok, now you have more time for test fly our Av-8 with F-14 as soon, ....[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]
Best Regards
Anton
Hi, Likai
Ok, now you have more time for test fly our Av-8 with F-14 as soon, ....[sm=biggrin.gif][sm=biggrin.gif]
Best Regards
Anton
Excuse me while i wipe the drool off of my chin
Man what cool projects you guys are coming up with!
10-27-2007, 10:07 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Interesting subject, I am assuming the VT nozzles are controlled using mixing similar to elevons on a delta with yaw function thrown in there for good measure? Also assuming a gyro is used on each of the 3 axis? This where I suppose things could get a little complicated....which gyro connects to which servo?
Rob.
Rob.
10-27-2007, 08:34 PM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: Robrow
Interesting subject, I am assuming the VT nozzles are controlled using mixing similar to elevons on a delta with yaw function thrown in there for good measure? Also assuming a gyro is used on each of the 3 axis? This where I suppose things could get a little complicated....which gyro connects to which servo?
Rob.
Interesting subject, I am assuming the VT nozzles are controlled using mixing similar to elevons on a delta with yaw function thrown in there for good measure? Also assuming a gyro is used on each of the 3 axis? This where I suppose things could get a little complicated....which gyro connects to which servo?
Rob.
In normal (high-speed) fly, gains of gyros for roll/pitch were set to heading-lock 20-30% and none-heading-lock 30% for yaw. In hovering (low-speed) fly, all gains of three gyros were set to heading-lock 100%.
10-28-2007, 01:41 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Great info. Likai and interesting to hear about the different gyro outputs. One thing is puzzling me.....you say only 3 servos are used? Surely 4 are neeeded? 2 for each nozzle?
Rob.
Rob.
10-28-2007, 07:28 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: Robrow
Great info. Likai and interesting to hear about the different gyro outputs. One thing is puzzling me.....you say only 3 servos are used? Surely 4 are neeeded? 2 for each nozzle?
Rob.
Great info. Likai and interesting to hear about the different gyro outputs. One thing is puzzling me.....you say only 3 servos are used? Surely 4 are neeeded? 2 for each nozzle?
Rob.
10-28-2007, 09:59 AM
#35
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Likai, that Euro seemed to fly amazing !!
I got a few questions since im doing one as well:
1. which engines are these ?
2. is this the CARF Euro ?
3. which thrust vector systems did you use ?
4. can you post pics of the engines installation together with the VT ?
5. i thought about putting the turbine in the back of the model, but i see you installed them with tail pipes and the VT after the pipe which is much better for CG - which tail pipe can i use, and which VT system ?
i shall be doing mine with a single Merlin 160 MK2.. no VT roll control unfortunately. [
] maybe i could program the canards to work like elevons with roll motion as well ?
I got a few questions since im doing one as well:
1. which engines are these ?
2. is this the CARF Euro ?
3. which thrust vector systems did you use ?
4. can you post pics of the engines installation together with the VT ?
5. i thought about putting the turbine in the back of the model, but i see you installed them with tail pipes and the VT after the pipe which is much better for CG - which tail pipe can i use, and which VT system ?
i shall be doing mine with a single Merlin 160 MK2.. no VT roll control unfortunately. [
] maybe i could program the canards to work like elevons with roll motion as well ?
10-28-2007, 12:09 PM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: i3dm
Likai, that Euro seemed to fly amazing !!
I got a few questions since im doing one as well:
1. which engines are these ?
2. is this the CARF Euro ?
3. which thrust vector systems did you use ?
4. can you post pics of the engines installation together with the VT ?
5. i thought about putting the turbine in the back of the model, but i see you installed them with tail pipes and the VT after the pipe which is much better for CG - which tail pipe can i use, and which VT system ?
i shall be doing mine with a single Merlin 160 MK2.. no VT roll control unfortunately. [] maybe i could program the canards to work like elevons with roll motion as well ?
Likai, that Euro seemed to fly amazing !!
I got a few questions since im doing one as well:
1. which engines are these ?
2. is this the CARF Euro ?
3. which thrust vector systems did you use ?
4. can you post pics of the engines installation together with the VT ?
5. i thought about putting the turbine in the back of the model, but i see you installed them with tail pipes and the VT after the pipe which is much better for CG - which tail pipe can i use, and which VT system ?
i shall be doing mine with a single Merlin 160 MK2.. no VT roll control unfortunately. [
] maybe i could program the canards to work like elevons with roll motion as well ?
Follow are my answer of your questions:
1. & 2. My C-ARF Euro-Sport was powered by twin JetCentral Rhino.
3. These vector thrust systems and pipes are made by myself from laser cut aluminium and stainless sheet.
4. See picture as follow.
5. If you use gyro control pitch motion (heading-lock), I think you can move C.G far back. In fact, because of two heavy engines locate in the back of original single engine position, the C.G of my ES is at 600mm measured from intake lip(compare to original setting 540mm). The short center of gravity to center of lift distance makes the plane easily flip across pitch-axis. Like many modern computer-aide full scale fighters which been designed natural unstable, it is impossible to fly a plane with such C.G position without gyro control.
6. In zero air speed, all control surfaces are no function, so I think that you set canards to elevons is useless.
10-28-2007, 01:38 PM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Hi i3dm
I'm sorry, these nozzles and pipes are not available now. I just make three of these nozzles for test fly only. But you can get similar products from JetCat.
I'm sorry, these nozzles and pipes are not available now. I just make three of these nozzles for test fly only. But you can get similar products from JetCat.
10-29-2007, 01:14 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
WOW Likai I cant believe you had two rhinos on the TYPHOON sorry for you're loss ,,,I built one with a single rhino with tams TVN plenty of thrust,, all i had to do was put two 4800 mah lithium ion on the nose
don't understand why didn't you assign all the functions to the 14mz instead of using all the extra electronics ,, all you had to do was select,, two ailerons functions ,,two ailerons2,, rudder rudder2 ,,,and then run one aileron with gyro to one nozzle and same as aileron2 s same as rudder, one switch and a variable for the gyros sensitivities ,,then do a flight condition on another switch so you can go from full out vectored thrust to normal flying ,you can also run separate dual rates on the nozzle's, when in hover I put the nozzles on low rate keep the angle as minimal as possible because i don't use gyro's ,14mzs can also do gear doors sequencing for you, VSTOLS best friend
i been building thrust vector jets for over 7 years from edf,s turbines,, contra rotating pushers ,,from my experience to much roll has no benefits ;;so i no longer use it ,,deltas naturally go in to a alpha when stalled ,,,I would try to avoid to much roll .I notice on you're pipe demo video it look like you had 60 degrees of split the most you should have is 6 degrees max ,only benefits slight roll in hover or slow vertical roll in zero wind conditions,,if you build another one check the thrust and you will be shocked how much you loose ,,to much split can reduce thrust as much 60 percent,, also makes the planes handle erratic ,, i think this is what happened to you ,, you can hear pitch changes every time the nozzles deflect ,,
been following you're build on the harrier AWESOME WORK
just trying to help
EDDIE
don't understand why didn't you assign all the functions to the 14mz instead of using all the extra electronics ,, all you had to do was select,, two ailerons functions ,,two ailerons2,, rudder rudder2 ,,,and then run one aileron with gyro to one nozzle and same as aileron2 s same as rudder, one switch and a variable for the gyros sensitivities ,,then do a flight condition on another switch so you can go from full out vectored thrust to normal flying ,you can also run separate dual rates on the nozzle's, when in hover I put the nozzles on low rate keep the angle as minimal as possible because i don't use gyro's ,14mzs can also do gear doors sequencing for you, VSTOLS best friend
i been building thrust vector jets for over 7 years from edf,s turbines,, contra rotating pushers ,,from my experience to much roll has no benefits ;;so i no longer use it ,,deltas naturally go in to a alpha when stalled ,,,I would try to avoid to much roll .I notice on you're pipe demo video it look like you had 60 degrees of split the most you should have is 6 degrees max ,only benefits slight roll in hover or slow vertical roll in zero wind conditions,,if you build another one check the thrust and you will be shocked how much you loose ,,to much split can reduce thrust as much 60 percent,, also makes the planes handle erratic ,, i think this is what happened to you ,, you can hear pitch changes every time the nozzles deflect ,,
been following you're build on the harrier AWESOME WORK
just trying to help
EDDIE
10-29-2007, 09:01 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
ORIGINAL: EDDIEGIGOWATTS
WOW Likai I cant believe you had two rhinos on the TYPHOON sorry for you're loss ,,,I built one with a single rhino with tams TVN plenty of thrust,, all i had to do was put two 4800 mah lithium ion on the nose
don't understand why didn't you assign all the functions to the 14mz instead of using all the extra electronics ,, all you had to do was select,, two ailerons functions ,,two ailerons2,, rudder rudder2 ,,,and then run one aileron with gyro to one nozzle and same as aileron2 s same as rudder, one switch and a variable for the gyros sensitivities ,,then do a flight condition on another switch so you can go from full out vectored thrust to normal flying ,you can also run separate dual rates on the nozzle's, when in hover I put the nozzles on low rate keep the angle as minimal as possible because i don't use gyro's ,14mzs can also do gear doors sequencing for you, VSTOLS best friend
i been building thrust vector jets for over 7 years from edf,s turbines,, contra rotating pushers ,,from my experience to much roll has no benefits ;;so i no longer use it ,,deltas naturally go in to a alpha when stalled ,,,I would try to avoid to much roll .I notice on you're pipe demo video it look like you had 60 degrees of split the most you should have is 6 degrees max ,only benefits slight roll in hover or slow vertical roll in zero wind conditions,,if you build another one check the thrust and you will be shocked how much you loose ,,to much split can reduce thrust as much 60 percent,, also makes the planes handle erratic ,, i think this is what happened to you ,, you can hear pitch changes every time the nozzles deflect ,,
been following you're build on the harrier AWESOME WORK
just trying to help
EDDIE
WOW Likai I cant believe you had two rhinos on the TYPHOON sorry for you're loss ,,,I built one with a single rhino with tams TVN plenty of thrust,, all i had to do was put two 4800 mah lithium ion on the nose
don't understand why didn't you assign all the functions to the 14mz instead of using all the extra electronics ,, all you had to do was select,, two ailerons functions ,,two ailerons2,, rudder rudder2 ,,,and then run one aileron with gyro to one nozzle and same as aileron2 s same as rudder, one switch and a variable for the gyros sensitivities ,,then do a flight condition on another switch so you can go from full out vectored thrust to normal flying ,you can also run separate dual rates on the nozzle's, when in hover I put the nozzles on low rate keep the angle as minimal as possible because i don't use gyro's ,14mzs can also do gear doors sequencing for you, VSTOLS best friend
i been building thrust vector jets for over 7 years from edf,s turbines,, contra rotating pushers ,,from my experience to much roll has no benefits ;;so i no longer use it ,,deltas naturally go in to a alpha when stalled ,,,I would try to avoid to much roll .I notice on you're pipe demo video it look like you had 60 degrees of split the most you should have is 6 degrees max ,only benefits slight roll in hover or slow vertical roll in zero wind conditions,,if you build another one check the thrust and you will be shocked how much you loose ,,to much split can reduce thrust as much 60 percent,, also makes the planes handle erratic ,, i think this is what happened to you ,, you can hear pitch changes every time the nozzles deflect ,,
been following you're build on the harrier AWESOME WORK
just trying to help
EDDIE
Thanks for your suggestion, when Anton completes Su-35 prototype I'll try it again. Now I can focus on Harrier.
10-29-2007, 10:42 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Hi Likai!
I saw your comment on Anton's SU35 - any idea when that will be in production?? I'm looking for a SU27 or SU35 because I think
they are two of the most advanced jets around!
Tor
I saw your comment on Anton's SU35 - any idea when that will be in production?? I'm looking for a SU27 or SU35 because I think
they are two of the most advanced jets around!
Tor
10-31-2007, 01:31 PM
#43
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Just kidding in fun.......... You abused that poor aircraft you madman!!!....
great video... now you have to build something to surpass that....
I'm in on a cheap Su-27 or 35......sign me up Anton/ Tam/ etc..etc...
great video... now you have to build something to surpass that....
I'm in on a cheap Su-27 or 35......sign me up Anton/ Tam/ etc..etc...
11-01-2007, 10:07 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
hmm just as i always suspected. a tree branch does not extinguise fire as well as a fire extinguiser
04-04-2008, 02:50 PM
#46
RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Dude, how come it took so long to get the extinguisher out there? what the hell was homeboy swinging at your jet? Is that the new manual-fire-putter-outer thingie mabob??
Really though, sorry you lost it, it was awesome. And good pilting to boot.
Really though, sorry you lost it, it was awesome. And good pilting to boot.
04-05-2008, 05:25 AM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Hello Luckyy
I use three Futaba GY-401 gyros to keep this bird flyable, because I move the CG position about 80mm backward compared to standard CG. The reason that I use heli gyro is heli gyro seems be more sensitive than airplane gyro in the highest heading-lock gain setting. In normal fly, it is not necessary to use high gain. But in hovering fly, I set the gain to maximun and the plane almost hovering automatically, the only thing I need to do is adjusting throttle.These pictures are my wiring and setting of gyros, hope they are helpful for you.
I use three Futaba GY-401 gyros to keep this bird flyable, because I move the CG position about 80mm backward compared to standard CG. The reason that I use heli gyro is heli gyro seems be more sensitive than airplane gyro in the highest heading-lock gain setting. In normal fly, it is not necessary to use high gain. But in hovering fly, I set the gain to maximun and the plane almost hovering automatically, the only thing I need to do is adjusting throttle.These pictures are my wiring and setting of gyros, hope they are helpful for you.
04-05-2008, 07:39 PM
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Yes, I use two elevon servos on each side. In functional side, two GY-401+V-tail-mixer is same as GYA-352 for delta wing type plane(there is built in V-tail-mixer function in GYA-352) but I find the max gain value of GYA-352 is not high enough for hovering purpose, so I switch to use such complex electronic setup, the other benefit is that I can use the signal of pitch-gyro to control canard surface. So, you can't say each gyro controls three servos, the exact answer is two combined gyros control seven servo together (including canard servo). Thanks to the using of PowerBox, the only job of these gyros and V-mixer are only output signal and we don't need to worry about burn them off by high current.
04-05-2008, 07:53 PM
#50
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RE: I lost my Vector Thrust Euro-Sport
Which type of V-tail mixer did you use ?
Did you fly with VT working the whole flight ?
Also, since im building mine with 2 axis VT only (pitch and yaw) do you think istill need to use gyros ? maybe at least on the pitch since ill be moving the CG back as well ? please advise what you think.
Did you fly with VT working the whole flight ?
Also, since im building mine with 2 axis VT only (pitch and yaw) do you think istill need to use gyros ? maybe at least on the pitch since ill be moving the CG back as well ? please advise what you think.