Possible big fuel problem
10-31-2007, 07:09 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Possible big fuel problem
Need some advice.....
I bought 10 gallons of fuel from an airport today. Just got it pumped into my blue kerosene tanks.
Now I told them I wanted Jet A1 but I've a bad feeling the dopey fueller guy went off and filled the tanks with AVGAS.
I've put some into clear tanks after mixing some BP turbine oil in and it's blue. Don't think that's right!
I've only used kerosene before so I don't know what Jet A smells like.
What would happen if I ran this stuff? (only asking for curiosity's sake, I'll just take it back if I'm not 100% that it's correct)
I bought 10 gallons of fuel from an airport today. Just got it pumped into my blue kerosene tanks.
Now I told them I wanted Jet A1 but I've a bad feeling the dopey fueller guy went off and filled the tanks with AVGAS.
I've put some into clear tanks after mixing some BP turbine oil in and it's blue. Don't think that's right!
I've only used kerosene before so I don't know what Jet A smells like.
What would happen if I ran this stuff? (only asking for curiosity's sake, I'll just take it back if I'm not 100% that it's correct)
10-31-2007, 07:32 PM
#3
RE: Possible big fuel problem
FYI
More recently, an additional grade was introduced to allow one fuel to be used in engines originally designed for grades with lower lead contents: this grade is called Avgas 100LL, the LL standing for 'low lead'.
All equipment and facilities handling avgas are color coded and display prominently the API markings denoting the actual grade carried. Currently the two major grades in use internationally are Avgas 100LL and Avgas 100. To ease identification the fuels are dyed; for example Avgas 100LL is colored blue, while Avgas 100 is colored green.
More recently, an additional grade was introduced to allow one fuel to be used in engines originally designed for grades with lower lead contents: this grade is called Avgas 100LL, the LL standing for 'low lead'.
All equipment and facilities handling avgas are color coded and display prominently the API markings denoting the actual grade carried. Currently the two major grades in use internationally are Avgas 100LL and Avgas 100. To ease identification the fuels are dyed; for example Avgas 100LL is colored blue, while Avgas 100 is colored green.
10-31-2007, 07:39 PM
#5
RE: Possible big fuel problem
Here is how you tell the difference. Pour some on your hand and "wash" them with it. In about 10 seconds the gas will evaporate and leave your hands dry and white looking and won't smell like much...that's if it's AVgas. If it's Jet-A, your hands will be oily and stink to high heaven an hour after you pour it.
Beave
(I used to be a line boy at an FBO 30 years ago)
Beave
(I used to be a line boy at an FBO 30 years ago)
10-31-2007, 08:25 PM
#7
RE: Possible big fuel problem
As a former line boy myself, I agree w/ the "wash" method. While car gas stinks for days and Jet A stinks for weeks 100LL is not bad to start with, evaporares quicky, and will leave your skin "dry" feeling with very little odor when it's gone.
That aside, if you look at some in a clear container and see a BLUE tint, it is absolutely positively without a doubt 100LL.
Take it back to where you got it, talk to THE manager. It's beyond an inconvenience. It's a possibly DEADLY scenario if he has someone working for him who can't distinguish between Jet fuel and Avgas. You could be saving a life. Or several.
That aside, if you look at some in a clear container and see a BLUE tint, it is absolutely positively without a doubt 100LL.
Take it back to where you got it, talk to THE manager. It's beyond an inconvenience. It's a possibly DEADLY scenario if he has someone working for him who can't distinguish between Jet fuel and Avgas. You could be saving a life. Or several.
10-31-2007, 08:29 PM
#8
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RE: Possible big fuel problem
Ain't that the truth. If you refueled with avgas in your jet at the airport, no big deal. If you put jet fuel in your recip you are going to have a big problem. Ask Bob Hoover! Bob
10-31-2007, 09:05 PM
#9
RE: Possible big fuel problem
ORIGINAL: B58
Ain't that the truth. If you refueled with avgas in your jet at the airport, no big deal. If you put jet fuel in your recip you are going to have a big problem. Ask Bob Hoover! Bob
Ain't that the truth. If you refueled with avgas in your jet at the airport, no big deal. If you put jet fuel in your recip you are going to have a big problem. Ask Bob Hoover! Bob
Barry
10-31-2007, 09:51 PM
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RE: Possible big fuel problem
On several occasions here at a small local airport I gave them my can and asked for Jet-A, and they have come back with Avgas. Seems to be a persistant problem.
11-01-2007, 12:07 AM
#11
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RE: Possible big fuel problem
Long story short, i thought I had deoderized kero pumped into my container. Didnt note the color at the time, then mixed my aeroshell 500 in it and it was now a blue / purple color. Smelled pretty good too. Ran it in a friends turbine and once it ramped up on the fuel the tail cone got cherry red, squealed and then it siezed up. Stoped dead, and would not cool down until the metals contracted enough that it was no longer stuck.
Dump the fuel and start over. a costly screw up
Dump the fuel and start over. a costly screw up
11-01-2007, 02:56 AM
#13
RE: Possible big fuel problem
Don't pour 100LL on your hand. even though the LL stands for low lead, it in fact has a hell of a lot of lead in it to increase the octane rating.
If you pour a small amount of 100LL onto the edge of the asphalt at the airport, it will evaporate within a few minutes, while Jet A will stay there for days on end.
As others have said, probably just as easy to pitch it and start over. Watch the fueler next time and make sure he's got the right truck [:@]
If you pour a small amount of 100LL onto the edge of the asphalt at the airport, it will evaporate within a few minutes, while Jet A will stay there for days on end.
As others have said, probably just as easy to pitch it and start over. Watch the fueler next time and make sure he's got the right truck [:@]
11-01-2007, 05:45 AM
#15
RE: Possible big fuel problem
Can you use it in your mower or line trimmer? Do you run unleaded in cars in the U.K. with cats? If no cat you could run it in the car. Disposing of it will be a problem if you have a concience. - John.
11-01-2007, 07:10 AM
#17
RE: Possible big fuel problem
ORIGINAL: Shok
On several occasions here at a small local airport I gave them my can and asked for Jet-A, and they have come back with Avgas. Seems to be a persistant problem.
On several occasions here at a small local airport I gave them my can and asked for Jet-A, and they have come back with Avgas. Seems to be a persistant problem.
Bob
11-01-2007, 12:38 PM
#20
Thread Starter
RE: Possible big fuel problem
Well took it back today and they not only replaced the fuel but I also scored a couple of new containers for it! Yup, Jet A doesn't smell good when the fuelling guy manages to not get all of it in the container (hope I managed to get it all clean before the cans went in the car)! I also got a couple of $$ refund. The fueller said he sometimes gets guys looking for 100LL so even though I told him Jet A he just went off on autopilot.
Dave - sounds like you haven't burnt all my kerosene yet, must be all the crappy weather you get back in the UK. Don't worry, one day you'll get to fly.........!
Dave - sounds like you haven't burnt all my kerosene yet, must be all the crappy weather you get back in the UK. Don't worry, one day you'll get to fly.........!
11-01-2007, 12:48 PM
#21
RE: Possible big fuel problem
Birdy
Flying in the Sun on Sunday...new Graupner Mirage to test (a real hot rod!)
Also a nice Seb Art Angel S and other toys...we miss you!
Dw
Flying in the Sun on Sunday...new Graupner Mirage to test (a real hot rod!)
Also a nice Seb Art Angel S and other toys...we miss you!
Dw
11-01-2007, 12:59 PM
#22
Thread Starter
RE: Possible big fuel problem
I miss me too, Dave! I've not actually flown since I got here - it's been around 3 weeks! Anyway Claire just had a massive arguement with her boss, before she's even started her job, so we could be coming home anytime! I could try and time it so we get in after your old man has left the country. I'd feel safer that way. Has he bizarrely injured anymore of your customers recently??
Forgot to mention earlier but thanks for all the responses, it helped me make the decision to take it straight back and not mess around!
Forgot to mention earlier but thanks for all the responses, it helped me make the decision to take it straight back and not mess around!
01-03-2008, 03:10 PM
#25
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RE: Possible big fuel problem
Let's see.....Napa Ca. isn't too far from the Nut Tree Airport, as it was called when I was stationed at Travis AFB in the early sixties. Ask your local FBO to sell you some Jet-A. Tell him, or better yet, show him the jet. He will probably be enthusiastic about it, and less likely to blow you off. I have read (on RCU) of some FBO's that have refused to sell Jet-A to modelers. Some have stated legal problems, but I feel that they prefer to pump a hundred gqallons or more into an airplane.
Jet-A1 contains Prist, an anti-icing addative that is not necessary for our model turbines. Jet-A1 is good for about -47 degrees F....Jet-A, without the anti-icing ingredient Prist, is good for about -40 degrees F. They both have the same flash point of 100.4 F. I've never seen it that cold in the Napa Valley.
You can use K-1 kerosene from the hardware store too. K-1 is deodorized, and doesn't have the same offensive odor of Jet fuel, and will perform the same in our engines.
Jet-A is about $4.00 a gallon, and have seen K-1 from at Home Depot as high as $15.00 per gallon. I save the $11.00 per gallon by using Jet-A, as I usually buy about 35 gallons at a time.
Hope this helps...
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP
Jet-A1 contains Prist, an anti-icing addative that is not necessary for our model turbines. Jet-A1 is good for about -47 degrees F....Jet-A, without the anti-icing ingredient Prist, is good for about -40 degrees F. They both have the same flash point of 100.4 F. I've never seen it that cold in the Napa Valley.
You can use K-1 kerosene from the hardware store too. K-1 is deodorized, and doesn't have the same offensive odor of Jet fuel, and will perform the same in our engines.
Jet-A is about $4.00 a gallon, and have seen K-1 from at Home Depot as high as $15.00 per gallon. I save the $11.00 per gallon by using Jet-A, as I usually buy about 35 gallons at a time.
Hope this helps...
Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP