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  1. #101
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Had time to work some quality time on the MB

    Finished the tail section now.
    Comparing it with my friend Leo, SM obviously used two different stabiliser fixing methods.
    He has one where it is fixed with grub screws through topside of stabs to the stab joiners.
    Mine has to be bolted from inside the fuse, a nut is already provided in each stab half. For me it is OK, as I have no transport problems to leave the stabs fitted to the fuse. But it would take a whole lotta work to remove them for transportation....

    Completed all wiring, inclusing parts of the www.flugmodellbau.de light set, a blinking red beacon light and a steady white NAV taillight.
    Tied all together with spiral wire and tied to fuse inside with tiewraps. They end in 2 X MPX green connectors (one female, one male, in order not te get mixed up!!)
    Had to lead two lighting ground wires via one pin, as I was short of one (12 pins in 2 connectors, 9 needed for 3 servos and 4 for the 2 lights makes one short!)

    Placed the strakes in place with silicon bath sealant (tranparent). I masked it off with tape, leaving about 2mms bare around and on the strake it self. De-grease well before adding the sealant. Dip Your finger in a soap/water mixture and wipe the excess sealant off, then remove the tape right away carefully. Do not leave it till the sealant has dried, as this will give an ugly result.
    After some hours drying, they sit solid like a rock to the fuse, while still very easily removeable with a sharp knife.

    After finishing I made my thrustworthy "hangar rash" protection tubing from watertubing isolation tubes. I always protect my larger models in this way, it saves a lot of dents getting these big fellas from Yr shack to the car and field.

    Completed linkage from servo's. I copied the provided rudder horns and thus made a double fixture on all surfaces. A bit more bulky, but I like the added safety they provide. An M3 aluminium "fork" with a large 3mm pin connects to the longer/thicker servo arms. I ran out of ideas to install the rudder servo and also used the bath sealant to glue it in place. Before scrub the servo side that has to be glued with Scotch Brite. The 8711 just fits barely!

    I need to buy some paint touch up colours and get the horns and linkage into matching colours. I emailed SM, but his painter obviously does not work with RAL numbers, so I have to make a good guess.

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    Regards,
    Richard

  2. #102
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    The next I tackled was the wing fixation.
    As I have chosen for a combo of sub-D pins and the quick disconnects for air, I found out the fuse slightly compressed in that area when pushing the wing against the fuse. The idea the wing would open up a bit during flight under load and pressure on 2 of the air hoses, scared me! I just HAD to make a solid connection that would pull at least that area together. Check out the pics where You can see the slit BEFORE and AFTER the mod, bolted in place.
    The easiest way would be bolting it from the inside, but You cannot reach that area because of the fuel tanks.

    This is the way I solved it.
    Right in between the Sub-D's and the air conn's I drilled a 5mm hole, with wing installed, through fuse and wing root. From a piece of electrical installation flexible tubing (am one of those guys that NEVER throws away something, ) I made an angled tube.
    Put a 5mm thick plywood insert in the side of that tube that has to be glued against the inside of the wing root rib.
    Made a hole in the wing underside to fit that tube, at some distance from the root, but not PAST the first rib!
    Then I made u tool which was flexible and included a Hex ball on top.
    I found a never used spring type of hex nut tool shaft and cut off both thick sides, just left a little "meat" to be able to drill an undeep hole to accept the (sawed off) ball side of a hex wrench. (Silver) soldered it to that spring, as well as the left over part of the wrench. Now I had a tool that would bend accordingly.

    Jiggling the lot into place with the help of a 5mm guide took a while to figure out.
    The front side of the tube contacted the inner side of the root rib now, and I had to glue it. I drilled an extra small hole in the wing underside, right under the area and dripped some superglue in it. Then slipped an hex nut of required lenght in the tube.


    It worked almost right from the start, the only mod I had to make was to beef up(wider diameter) the last part of the tool, it would initially not "find" the hex nut hole, because the bend in the tubing presses the tool'front side off-centre. Now the tool's top part fits snugly, and leading the ball right to the nut.
    Also here some green touch up needed, as soon as I have it.

    OK, some might shy away from making an opening in a neatly built wing, but I reckon the added safety greatly outsells that little price.
    Hope the pics will explain more...

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    Regards,
    Richard

  3. #103
    RemoteJets's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Hye Richard,

    thanks for the mail with the link to this building thread of your MB339.
    I can see you did a lot since last time we saw it in your work place, keep up the good job.


    Didn`t do a lot on the Formost yet, first my Cessna 337 Skymaster overhaul and then I will really begin with my first jet building (more a modification ).
    (Even my first yet isn`t on the building board, I allready have the second one in tha house, the Tree Hucking Rafale from Gerald )

    We`ll meet again.

    Greetz,
    Berto.

  4. #104
    F-15J_JSDF's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Really nice and clean build. I am a big fan of Skymaster Jets and planing of obtaining a F-15, F/A-18F and the MIG-29 at a later date.

    I do not know much about the MB339. The Nav Lighiting may I ask were you obtained them please.

  5. #105
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    F15 JSDF If You read correctly, You could have read www.flugmodellbau.de
    The MB339 set itself is not mentioned on their site, it consists of a 3-light NAV light set (red, green, white), a nose mounted headlight, a beacon light on the top of the tail, a strobe light at the bottom of the fuselage, all powered from their Lighting Module Mini http://www.flugmodellbau.de/product_...ight-mini.html
    With this unit You can program the lights to glow steady or flashing, also the flash frequency type is selectable. Several functions can be controlled from your transmitter.

    They come with suitable lens covers, even the tip mounted nav lights which have a tear drop form, come with suitable covers.
    You only need a 4 cell normal battery for power.

    Support is great by the owner, Mr Hajo Giegerich.

    Cost for my set was approx 200 euros, w/o battery.
    Regards,
    Richard

  6. #106
    F-15J_JSDF's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Thanks for the information Rich, Sorry I am working and scanning the net at the same time so can not really read every word for word.

  7. #107

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Hi guys,

    I did it.
    Today my SM MB 339 had his maiden flight.
    Everything worked great. This airplane flys realy great and it so much fun doing aerobatic with this jet.


    Greetings
    Christian



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  8. #108
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Completed linkage of flaps and ailerons.
    Note I put the flap arms in reverse, to have a better angle both in flaps UP and DOWN.
    At full flaps a gap opens at the top side, but that is not a problem.

    Now tackling the linkage between the main gear legs and door, have not found yet the "sweet spot" on the door where to attach the conn rod that is attached to the strut.
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    Regards,
    Richard

  9. #109

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: C.Brunnlechner

    Hi guys,

    I did it.
    Today my SM MB 339 had his maiden flight.
    Everything worked great. This airplane flys realy great and it so much fun doing aerobatic with this jet.


    Greetings
    Christian



    Looks like a great flying site, love the pictures with the green rolling hills in the background....something we don't see very often in California (green that is). Congrats on your test flight, I have been flying the same plane (same color too) and yes it does fly fantastic.....will knife edge from one side of those pretty hills to another. Enjoy and thanks again for the pictures,
    Dave
    JetCat USA Rep

  10. #110
    furloughed ual's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Dave, yours will hold a level knife edge the length of the field? Mine would not, but I had 130oz on the rudder.....I wasnt sure if the rudder was not big enough or if I was getting some blow down on the servo.....I think u just confirmed it....what servo u using on your rudder?
    \"somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder\"

  11. #111

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    My MB339 would also hold a pretty nice knife edge and it weighs 54lbs with 5.6 liters of fuel. I am using a JR 8611 for the rudder, 333 oz in of torque, and the plane is powered by a Ram 1000 with 28lbs of thrust.
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  12. #112

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: furloughed ual

    what servo u using on your rudder?
    8611 on rudder. I did not build it, but it was set up with 3 rates on the rudder and at mid rate full stick held a perfect knife edge. I don't know the throw, but my point is that it did not need high rate so it does not seem that it needs an abnormal amount of travel but just a little more then minimum. Hope that helps.
    Dave
    JetCat USA Rep

  13. #113
    furloughed ual's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: Dave Presta


    ORIGINAL: furloughed ual

    what servo u using on your rudder?
    8611 on rudder. I did not build it, but it was set up with 3 rates on the rudder and at mid rate full stick held a perfect knife edge. I don't know the throw, but my point is that it did not need high rate so it does not seem that it needs an abnormal amount of travel but just a little more then minimum. Hope that helps.
    Dave
    Thanks Dave.....looks like I just need more horsepower to the rudder......
    \"somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder\"

  14. #114
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    I guess, apart from rudder deflection (8711 on mine, but has not flown yet) there is a distinction whether one flies the "Frecce" version or the camo one. The last one has tip tanks, which sure will increase the effect of holding the nose up in knife edge.
    The Frecce version can be flown with or w/o the underslung tanks, which will also be of a help, once mine flies I will be keen in testing the different configurations and their effects.
    Regards,
    Richard

  15. #115
    ianober's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Thats a decent point, the one that Dave was flying had 4 hard points and 2 under wing tanks.

  16. #116
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    A few questions.

    I checked out the incidence of the tailplane, it is one degree POSITIVE to the main wing. A friend of mine with another brand MB has (almost) the same reading. I guess this will be OK, but can anybody explain this setup? I would have expected someting negative, as usual..

    I consider the supplied pilots too much of a pygmy, will get some bigger ones, anybody a tip?

    Apart from getting the underwing fuel tank pylons mounted to the wing, w/o any wooden frame/doubler inside the wing, how do You attach the tank to the pylon in a (reasonably) quick disconnect fashion? Need to be able to remove the tanks for transportation.
    Looking at the full size, it has bolt-like thingy's sticking sideways from the pylon and pressing the tank in centre position. Not too difficult to replicate, but that still leaves the fixing problem.

    Regards,
    Richard

  17. #117
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Rich, great thread.

    I have not long completed one of these (MB339) anyway, it was not a specific kit, a one off I believe, but great plane with nice lines. If your still having trouble getting the sweet spot on the gear doors, I found recently on my latest build (Loaded Eurofighter.....) using clear plastic sheet, thick enough to remain reasonably rigid, you can mock up a gear door and 'see' the linkages below and where they need to fix to get the correct action. On pylon mounting, again on the Euro thread I used M3 tapped 6mm aluminium rods, set into the wing with Gorilla glue, in this case the pylons are fixed to the wing so the rods were glued into these as well, but with your build fixing in between the wing skins would work.

    If you need pics etc they are all on the 'Loaded Eurofighter Build thread'

    Keep up the good work

    marc.

  18. #118

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Hi Richard,

    I am building a SM MB339 in camo myself and this thread has been of great help - thanks! I did not like the standard pilots either so I went for the BBI Elite Force Aviator Pilots. They fit nicely and I think the size is correct.

    Se link below. You can find them on ebay as well. You will not be dissapointed...

    http://www.blueboxtoys.com/bbi2005/h..._a/aviator.htm

    Thomas L
    Jets of Norway

  19. #119

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread


    ORIGINAL: thomaslo

    Hi Richard,

    I am building a SM MB339 in camo myself and this thread has been of great help - thanks! I did not like the standard pilots either so I went for the BBI Elite Force Aviator Pilots. They fit nicely and I think the size is correct.

    Se link below. You can find them on ebay as well. You will not be dissapointed...

    http://www.blueboxtoys.com/bbi2005/h..._a/aviator.htm

    Thomas L
    Jets of Norway

    I "love" the piloto of BBI; I hav uno in F18 twin of Yellow, EFA of Composite and a lot in my hely. But I'm building the SM 339 too and the BBI are too small !! They are 1/6 scale and the plane is 1/4.5 !!

    I bought one of : http://www.maffscav.de/ in 1/4.5 scale and fit very well.

    Gabriele ( Siena - Italy)
    www.gipijet.com

  20. #120
    InboundLZ's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Inner main wheel doors were a pain....I got them ok...some pictures to help maybe.
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    Dave Bottita
    evoJet Factory Pilot
    Smart-Fly

  21. #121
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Thomas,
    Tks for the tip on BBI pilots, but the site is not much of great help, no pricing, no dimensions.

    Pdrlele: Same with Mascaff, gues You have to email what You want to get prices etc.

    F18 Diamond back/Marc S:
    I now graduated to "expert wheeldoor hingeing"...

    Main doors: (see pics)
    Found that the best location of the offset hinge was with the moveable part JUST outside the hinge line, so about 1-2 mms from the wing panel. I removed part of the flange first and also made a small groove for the arm to pass.
    Then superglued the "fixed" part to the underside of the wing panel. Carefulo that You maintain 90 degrees to the hinge line.

    Now You face the problem of getting the moveable part fixed to the door in the right location. Marc, indeed a clear panel would help to determine its location, but I found an alternative way, which works even more precise and quicker:
    Make some small wooden supports that with some sanding aligns both movable flanges parallel to the underside of the door panel.
    Put superglue on the flange and press the door in place, wait 30 secs and it was all OK. Before this trick I had to remove some of the doubler plate of the door hinge however for better fitting.

    Final result is a perfect fitting, and it opens up even past 90 degrees.

    Drilled 2mm holes in the door, plus used a 5mm drill to widen up the holes a bit for acceptance of the countersink heads of the 2mm bolts.

    The flanges on the wings I predrilled with 1mm, to accept the BVM screws. (Only one to be seen in place, my stock got depleted....)


    For the other door that is connected to the gear strut, the offset hinges do not work, as there is some wooden structure running across, which I guess is needed for gear mount stability. So I drilled holes under angle and put Robart pin hinges in them, slightly protruding though. Inside the door I added some wood to have more "beef" for the pin hinges to be glued. After I have located some matching tip colours (dunno the English word for those small cans with a small brush attached to the lid, used to repair small scratches on a car) I can paint the hinges a bit.

    The door operationg mechanism which is connected to the gear strut, is just a trial and (many) error procedure till You have located the best spot for the hinge point plus lenght of the arm. Careful that the arm does not "overcentre" as I have found out, it WILL lock the door in UP sometimes. So make the arm as short as possible so that when retracted, the arm still makes angle to the gear leg.
    Press gently with your hand on the door panel to replicate airstream forces and check that the gear WILL come out during extension!







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    Regards,
    Richard

  22. #122

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Here are two pictures showing the BBI pilots in my MBB 339. Sorry for bad quality...

    The scale is 1/6. SM MB339 is 1/5.

    The price range between 79 USD and 119 USD for each pilot.

    Thomas
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  23. #123

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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    The FULL SCALE MB339 PAN is 10.8 mt of wing span.

    The skymaster model is 2.40 mt, so the SCALE is NOT 1/5 but 1/4.5 ( 10.8/2.40 =4.5)

    The BBI pilot is 32 cm, so 32 x 4.5 = 144 cm ..... Or is very little pilot or, as I say, the BBI is too small. And we can see from your picture.
    In the Full scale the pilot touch with the helmet in the upper part of the canopy.

    The maffcav is in scale 1/4.5 and cost about 218.00 euro.
    Gabriele ( Siena - Italy)
    www.gipijet.com

  24. #124
    richbran's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    SETBACK....GRRRRRRR.

    On basis of the supplied drawing I drilled holes to accept the inboard pylon, see scan of the instructions. First found out that the holes were too far toward the back, needing redrill. Misaligned once again a 3rd series was drilled, normally which would not have been a problem, as all would be covered by the pylon.
    Found out then that there was NO plywood under the wing skin(sucks!) in the mounting area and the idea that a large wingtank is held by two Parker screws through a wing sheet did not make sense to me.

    So decided to (silicon kit) glue it to the wing, and roughned it a little with scotch brite. With some jiggling managed to get some plywood under the last hole. Fwd one You cannot reach because of the main spar. They should have been installed by SM! There is quite some forces on pylons, they need to be fixed to the wing in a very rigid manner.

    THEN I studied the pictures again (should have done that before....) and saw that the outboard pylon sits closer to the fence (the thin plate that is exactly placed in front of the split between flap and aileron) as does the inboard. The instructions however say the opposite! A disturbing mistake....

    I have found that the holes need to be 51cm iso indicated 57 cm from the wing root, and the first one should be 4,3 from the leading edge.

    Check out the pics from the 1/1 one and also You can see that the main wheel door, because of the proximity of the external tank, not even opens 90 degrees...So the inboard tank sits quite close to the large gear door.


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    Regards,
    Richard

  25. #125
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: SkyMaster MB339 Build Thread

    Richard not good when instructions give the wrong or incomplete information, better sometimes to have non at all!

    The inner tanks do go close to the outer gear door, not that is is a very good picture but you can just make out the door opening angle in the picture attached, good luck with your build it will be worth the work (so I'm told!)

    marc.

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