jonkoppisch

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I just saw on the news that they ruled it pilot error in the Blue Angel crash earlier this year... I really feel for his family! They said that he didn't properly flex his abs when making a 6g turn causing him tunnel vision and to be disoriented....

BlackCloud

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I didn't know they have a way to record what a pilots abs were doing during flight. I wonder how they could come to such a specific conclusion? Sounds like it could be another cover up to me.[&o]
Its always the easy way out to place blame on a person that can't defend himself. [:@]
BC

jonkoppisch

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Here's a link to the story...

http://wkrg.com/news/article/blue_an...on_pilot/9111/

uncljoe

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by Associated Press

Blue Angels Crash Blamed on Pilot
geoNews Nearby News

* Blue Angels Homecoming
* Flying With The Blues
* Discuss this in the forum

Published: Jan 14 2008 - 11:07 am
Last Updated: Jan 14 2008 - 11:07 am
PENSACOLA, Fla. (AP) - Military investigators blame a U.S. Navy
Blue Angels pilot for his fatal crash last year.
A report obtained by The Associated Press says
Lieutenant Commander Kevin Davis got disoriented and crashed after not
properly tensing his abdominal muscles to counter the gravitational
forces of a high-speed turn.
Davis died in April when his F/A 18 Hornet went down in South
Carolina.
An investigator says Davis never lost total control of the
flight stick in the turn at six times the force of gravity. A
temporary decrease in blood flow to his brain caused by the
gravitational pull likely caused Davis to experience tunnel vision.
The Pensacola-based Blue Angels fly without the G-suits most
fighter pilots wear to avoid blacking out. The suits inflate and
deflate air bladders around the lower body to keep blood in the
brain and heart.
The air bladders can cause a pilot to bump the control stick. So
the Blue Angels instead learn to manage the forces by tensing their
abdominal muscles.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
Semper Fi
Joe

B58

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In other words, the jet was working ok so had to be a problem with the operator. I think most of us suspected a g induced problem from the start. I don't really feel that falls under "pilot error" as much as human limits. Bob

check6ii

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I agree we all pretty much figured he wound up taking a bit of a nap. I think hes getting the short end of the stick by calling it "pilot error". It sucks his folks were watching the performance when he was lost.

Heatseeker_Hill

to be honest i dont think blaming pilot error will make much different to the pilot now.anyway i've heard they've got a truly amazing display where he is now so he'll be getting so much flying in he wont even have time to think about it

ravill

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It would seem reasonable to expect a professional pilot would know to back off on the elevator when the tunnel vision starts. Unless, I suppose, it happened so quickly, he could not counter act fast enough or somesort of mechanical failure.

Raf

seanreit

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I don't know Raf, heat of the moment, remember that video of the guy going for the ride with the blue angels, kept passing out over and over. I just hope when/if he passed out, he was already gone when the jet hit the ground. It would have been even more appalling for a pilot to come to just as it was too late to do anything.

CraigG

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It depends on the onset rate of G-LOC (G induced Loss Of Consciousness). Inducing G's at a slower rate, say +2G/sec will normally result in a progression of tunnel vision, gray out and loss of consciousness that a pilot can control and manage. Snatching high G's much quicker can result in an amost immediate loss of consciousness without the warning states of tunnel vision and gray out. The problem is really a phenonomen of the modern generation of fighters and their amazing G capability.

Unfortunately, it's an inexact science and can vary depending on a pilot's physical condition on a given day and small differences in how quickly and how long the G is induced. Unfortunately, recovery from a rapid rate G-LOC is not immediate and close to the ground can be disastrous, such as in this tragic incident.

Craig

rhklenke

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Yea, there is a great video out there of a student in an F-16 who pulls a 9 G break and G-LOC's - it was used on a show way back when on the Discovery Channel or something. He breaks, pulls, and almost immediately passes out. The plane rolls inverted and heads towards Terra-Firma and the instructor starts telling the student to "watch the terrain." He says that several times before he realizes the student is out and recovers the aircraft. He then proceeds to curse up a storm thinking about what would have happened if he wasn't there. It was a normal training mission, so I'd bet they were even wearing G-suits.

Bob

CraigG

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Bob, I remember that video too. It also highlights that it is an inexact phenonomen in that both pilots in the F-16 were obviously experiencing the same G forces but only one blacked out.

dragonpilot

My Feedback: (38)

So they ruled it a CFIT....
I would suspect with all the technology and millions of dollars spent, that our aircraft have better collison avoidance systems to take control of the aircraft when it suspects faulty inputs and imminent crash (too close to the ground) or shouldn't there be sensors on the pilot's brain to determine if he/she has complete control. I'm assuming. I guess I need to read up on the latest GPWS, TAWS systems
Sad times to lose a pilot in any situation.

ravill

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Exactly. [&o]

I was under the impression that the Blue's didn't wear G-suits and didn't use all of the Fancy Doodads because they fly close to the deck/each other.

B58

My Feedback: (43)

This was the same pilot who flew the reporter that kept going in and out. Also, when you look at the video, he overshot a little and was pulling hard to the left and up to rejoing. Probably looking up and to his left, which would make the grey out even worse. I can remember my first ride in a 16, I went out at 6 g. And I had a g suit. Bob

tp777fo

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Oh the Navy!.....200 years of tradition unhampered by progress. A $200 G suit would have saved his life and a $35M airplane.

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

that is correct amigo.

the constant movement of the G-suit would make "in close" precision flying more challenging than it already is. the forearm rests on the thigh for support during flying

rapid on-set of G-Loc is hard to overcome for even the most physically fit bubbas in the business.

damn shame either way.

don't wait to call someone you're thinking about, never know when the opportunity will slip right on by.

cheers
buck

SDCrashmaster

rhklenke

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If you've watched any of the cockpit videos on how they fly the F-18 with the center stick (arm resting on leg to steady it), you would see that the G-suit would make the close-in formation flying nearly impossible. They have been doing it that way for what, 15 or more years since they've been in the F-18's? Its a bit different than flying an F-16 with a side-stick (or a triple 7 too eh?)

I feel for the guy's family, and I'm sure he was a good pilot and a good guy, but he screwed up and it could have happened (and does) even with a G-suit. You can't damn something that's worked fine for that long a time just because of one accident. Everytime the boat goes to sea, somebody doesn't come back... It ain't like driving a truck...

Bob

seanreit

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Bob, don't mind Tom, he bailed out of an F-4 in Nam, Flew T-38's, and a slew of other jets. Only guy I've ever heard of that stalled a 737 and flipped it upside down........TWICE!

He probably busting on those Navy Pukes for old times sake

rhklenke

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Ah, I missed the tonge-in-cheek part... I'm not sure I believe the 737 story though...

Bob

Woketman

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Tom, we want to hear more about the 737s!!!!

tp777fo

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Yep..that's right.. the F-4 wasn't Nam it was Fla. but the MartinBaker ride was the same just no bad guys chasing me...just some sharks with big ***** teeth in the gulf. After the chopper picked us up I looked out the door and the sharks were circling the wagons just like the indians in the old westerns. The 737 is true. Doing a maintenance check flight on a T-43 (B737-200) and it stalled 15kt above the computed speed. Did a nice flip over into 135degrees of bank. I did the manly thing...let go of it, let it build up speed and then recovered from the dive. We had plenty of altitude and an unloaded airplane cant be stalled or spun so I knew it couldn't hurt us. We did it several more times to try to see what was causing it. After about 3 more flights we determined it was a no. 1 slat malfunction. It could not be duplicated on the ground and we finally solved it after talking with the Boeing engineers. The maintenance flights were fun because we got to be test pilots on a few occasions. The only one that caused the seat cushion to be surgically removed was elevator flutter...now that one really got my attention. It jerked the yoke out of the flying pilots hand it was so violent. If it were not for model airplanes I would not have known what it was and probable would not be writing this thread today. Seriously I deeply hurt every time we lose a man or woman in uniform. Anything we can do to prevent any of them being hurt is worth the cost. A G-suit could have prevented this accident.

uncljoe

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Seems the Only way for sure is not flying that day.Accidents do happen. The Local New Jersey Devils (F16)lost two pilots due to "blacking out' & they had the g suits.
Semper Fi
Joe

seanreit

My Feedback: (60)

Tom, thanks for the correction, I was building you into a war hero!, The legend that is more than a man! haha