Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Hi Guys,
Today at the flying field my friend had a flameout with the Cermark F-16 powered with a P-70. He has had many perfect flights with this combo so it was a surprise when it happened. The OC display said "Fuel Faliure" ... I am not familiar with this OC code?? are we looking at a bad fuel pump or filter clog ??
Thanks,
V..

MaJ. Woody

My Feedback: (28)

I had this happen to me. I tried everything looking for a problem. Turns out it was an RPM sensor issue. I had to swap the board in the turbine and it solved the problem. I'm not saying that is your issue but after trouble shooting it over the phone with Bob Wilcox, that is where we ended up after ruling out all the other things it could have been. Have your friend give Jetcat a call on Monday and they can talk him through what to look for.
Dom

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Ok Dom, thanks...
V..

Harley Condra

My Feedback: (4)

Vincent,
See page 58 of the JetCat engine manual. It mentions this particular failure message. "LOW RPM", "FUEL FAIL" or "CODE 7"
Quote:
"99 times out of 100 this is caused by air in the fuel system. Make sure there are no leaks in the fuel system and most importantly, get all air out of the fuel filter. The fuel filter should not be hard fixed to the plane, but allowed to hang free. It is best mounted vertically. When you purge the fuel system, tap the filters while the pump is running to get `all air out of them.
You will see the pump voltage rising rapidly because the ECU is trying to maintain mthe RPM. The temperature and RPM will be decreasing. The ECU will turn off the pump when the RPM is approxinmately less than 24,000 RPM.
USE A BVM ULTIMATE AIR TRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did the engine make a stream of white smoke when it flamed out?
Check all fuel system connections for an air leak.

Hope this helps,

Harley Condra
BVM REP
JetCat REP

David Gladwin

I have never had an actual flameout on my P70 in 200 flights but I was plagued by quite strong surging as I explained in the JetCat forum, really expected it to flameout.

The filter was changed, the ecu was changed, the rpm sensor and egt probes were changed, and eventually in frustration, I sent the engine back to JC who found the engine in perfect condition, and performed perfectly on their test bed.

On return I had two perfect runs and then the surging resumed. Andy Sheldon of JetLine had a spare pump and we changed it, nothing to lose, the engine has run perfectly ever since.

The pump was tested during the initial investigation and seemed to work fine, but it WAS the culprit.

The P70 is delightful engine and powers my BobCat XL to perfection. It is now converted to kero starting and during start I plug in a Duralite lithium manganese battery as a booster which gives much more reliable starting, and more of them per charge.

Hope this helps.

Regards, David Gladwin

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

There was no air anywhere to be seen in the fuel lines, the jet has a BVM uat and like i said lots of flawless flights. There was no smoke trail when the flameout occured.
V..

Tom Antlfinger

My Feedback: (24)

Hi Vin:

I think the fuel failure error indicates a divergence in RPM increase vs fuel pump voltage based on my experience this summer with my Titan......as soon as it got over 90F ambient, the Titan, which had been flawless at lower temps would start to sputter upon fast or slow advancement of the throttle stick, belch some fire, hang up at various RPM, usually about 60-70K, get very hot EGT, and then shut down with Fuel Failure or overtemp error.....Bob had seen this on other Titans....sent it back, he adjusted the injectors and since then has been fine even above 90F ambient.....so a somewhat generic error, whenever the the ECU doesn't see a normal RPM accel curve despite increasing fuel pump output, i.e. increasing voltage to the pump....at least that is what I understood talking to Bob......could be a combustor problem like in my case, fuel pump or delivery problem like a bubble, or even a tight wheel vs NGV that plagued my Titan right after it was converted from a P-160........

Tom

Silver182

My Feedback: (2)

Sounds like a weak battery to me...just try a different / strong ECU battery and go fly again! I know normally if the ECU battery will start the motor it's good to go...but if for any reason the voltage drops below 7 volts during the engine run my experience is the motor will shut down... and the code will be "Fuel Fail" because the shutdown is caused by the fuel solenoid being shut off. I've had this happen a few times over the past 8 years, first time after a couple of dead-stick landings.. I figured out what was wrong. Yep, no smoke just puuuuu... and no power.
Lee H. DeMary
AMA 36099

Bob.R

My Feedback: (2)

I had a rash of flameouts last spring with a P120. I tried all the obvious fixes with no success. I finally replaced the fuel pump out of desperation and had no more flameouts. Something to check if all else fails.

quist

My Feedback: (198)

Vin,

I had the same error code in Ray's Boomer when he had a bad battery.

TQ

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

One of these days we'll have an ecu that will tell us specifically a fuel pump error, air in fuel line, battery error, etc and not these generic error messeges. Really sucks when you dont know what to replace. Really sucks flying again hoping you fixed it and hoping it doesnt flame out again.
So many flame outs get blamed on air in line. Would be nice to know for sure.
Scott

KC36330

when i had a bad batt it had 'Power Fail' , only other flame out i had said the same thing and it was caused by the smoke pump on a Y with the ECU batt and the pump broke a gear and locked up causing a high current drain on the ECU batt drooping voltage below ECU cut out.

rolsen12

I had three flame outs in a row with the same ( fuel failuer) and nobody could tell what caused it.
After the first one I changed every thing in the fuel system, then two more happened.
I then relearned the ECU and had one ten miniute flight.
The next day right after takeoff the whole thing went into failsafe and the plane whent in.
The default on the GSU said ( Power Fail).
Check your Regulator or get a new one.
That was the problem.
If it was air in the fuel line there would have been smoke comming out as you came in.
I got rid of all that brand of regulatorthat I owned( Crushed in vice).

Eddie P

My Feedback: (4)

Let that be a lesson to other regulators out there!!

erbroens

I also had a flameout surge in a P-80 with the FUELFAIL error, and after many deadstick landings (and changing the batts, fuelpump,etc.)
I found that the center cone of the exhaust nozzle was rubbing in the turbine wheel, triggering this fail.


Enrique

josecilurzo

Ola Enrique,

Ć© possivel vc me passar a direĆ§Ć£o de seu clube em curitiba novamente?

grato

erbroens

Sem duvida... aqui vai o link do endereƧo no google maps.

http://maps.google.com.br/maps?f=q&h...&t=h&z=18&om=0

At+,Enrique.

ricardinho

curious guys. what idle rpm are you guys using with the latest 6.0 upgrades. i normaly run 34000 . just want to be safe.....thanks pat