Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > RC Jets
Reload this Page >

Carf MIG-15

Community
Search
Notices
RC Jets Discuss RC jets in this forum plus rc turbines and ducted fan power systems

Carf MIG-15

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 05-29-2015, 05:21 AM
  #426  
Vincent
My Feedback: (61)
 
Vincent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Arizona
Posts: 5,017
Received 23 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kimhey
The Carf Mig is the easiest jet to fly of all my current jets (aw mig-21, Carf Eurosport and Air-c-Race L-29). Actually, it is even easier than the Boomerang Elan that I once had. The only things I can tell, is to go easy on the expo on elevator. It is a small elevator, and therefor not as efficient as many other models. I started at 35% expo on elevator, and ended at 15%, which is so little that I could most likely just drop expo. At 35%, the model became nervous at landing (flare), since you have to pull a decent amount of elevator to get the nose up at low airspeed. Talking about airspeed on landing..... The manual states that you can land the Mig very slow, and that is very true. The Mig will GLADLY start to bounce multiple times if you land fast. Been there, done that...and it is not pretty
Ailerons are not very effective, so get as much throw as you can, I got 30-ish mm measured at aileron root (don't recall what the manual suggests). Rudder is 50mm.
I use gyro (no expo)on both ailerons and rudder. Rudder is a must, ailerons makes it look like the real thing and not a model..

I actually like the Mig so much, that I have been close to buying one more several times, just to have one in reserve.

That said, there are issues with the kit They are related to the building prosess, and since you are ready for maiden, you have obviously solved them

Good luck with the maiden!
Do you use the speed brakes for landing??
Thx Vin...
Old 05-29-2015, 06:30 AM
  #427  
Craig B.
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
If you find some pics let me know, thanks!

On to another question, which could probably be its own thread as it's not entirely specific to the CARF MiG - I'm swapping in the Intairco retracts for the originals, and upon bolting in the new nose gear and right main, I hooked up the whole system, filled it to ~120 psi, but there just isn't enough oomph to retract the gear. It extends fine, and will unlock the gear when I slide the valve to close them but won't bring them up into the wells. There's no obstruction keeping them from going, and I can push them closed by hand. So I pulled the main gear out and hooked an air compressor directly to the "up" side of the cylinder. From down and locked, even air straight out of the compressor doesn't bring the gear to up/locked. Per the gauge on the compressor itself, I'm pressurizing the line/cylinder to well over 100 psi.

You guys have any idea what this would indicate? In my head it can only be one of two things, the pivoting gear leg is clamped too tightly in the mounting bracket (seems unlikely) or the piston is meeting a lot of resistance in the cylinder. I tried getting a little bit of oil into the cylinder and will try more if necessary when I get back to working on it, just thought I'd check in and see if anyone has had similar issues with this or any other pneumatic gear and have some suggestions.
Try loosening the mounting bolts on the retracts and see if that helps with retraction. If it does, then your mounting rails are not parallel and the mounting bolts are twisting the retract frames which will cause the locking pin to bind. The INTAIRCO retracts have quite tight tolerances so your rails might need to be levelled out.
Old 05-29-2015, 06:59 AM
  #428  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

I thought about that being a possibility Craig, so I did take the gear out of the wing entirely and hooked the compressor up directly to the cylinder. Still didn't want to go up with air alone. I didn't get a chance to check, are the Intairco cylinders sealed or can I open them up to inspect the cylinder and the O-rings?
Old 05-29-2015, 10:14 AM
  #429  
kimhey
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Notteroy, NORWAY
Posts: 498
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Vincent
Do you use the speed brakes for landing??
Thx Vin...
Good question! I have found out that takeoff flaps and speedbrakes is the best configuration for MY landings. I have done my landings this way for the last year or so. Full flaps and no speed brakes makes the Mig wanna "waggle" it's tail when the speed decreases. Full flaps and speedbrakes works great most of the time, but it might "bite"/(stop flying) you from time to time (only takeoff flaps is acutally better).

So....Personally I have worked my way to the conclution that takeoff flaps and speedbrakes (they open 13-14cm) is my favorite landing configuration.

Kim
Old 05-29-2015, 10:22 AM
  #430  
kimhey
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Notteroy, NORWAY
Posts: 498
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
If you find some pics let me know, thanks!

On to another question, which could probably be its own thread as it's not entirely specific to the CARF MiG - I'm swapping in the Intairco retracts for the originals, and upon bolting in the new nose gear and right main, I hooked up the whole system, filled it to ~120 psi, but there just isn't enough oomph to retract the gear. It extends fine, and will unlock the gear when I slide the valve to close them but won't bring them up into the wells. There's no obstruction keeping them from going, and I can push them closed by hand. So I pulled the main gear out and hooked an air compressor directly to the "up" side of the cylinder. From down and locked, even air straight out of the compressor doesn't bring the gear to up/locked. Per the gauge on the compressor itself, I'm pressurizing the line/cylinder to well over 100 psi.

You guys have any idea what this would indicate? In my head it can only be one of two things, the pivoting gear leg is clamped too tightly in the mounting bracket (seems unlikely) or the piston is meeting a lot of resistance in the cylinder. I tried getting a little bit of oil into the cylinder and will try more if necessary when I get back to working on it, just thought I'd check in and see if anyone has had similar issues with this or any other pneumatic gear and have some suggestions.
Sorry if I am not getting your point, but are you just using the retracts, not the supplied extra sylinders (3 or 4 inch stroke)? If so, you will not get it to work. There just isn't enough power in the retract sylinders to retract the gear.

Kim
Old 05-29-2015, 11:10 AM
  #431  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Hey Kim, I guess I didn't mention but I am using the extra cylinder as well, with it T'd off of the retraction line. The extension side of the extra cylinder is open, so it is not used when extending the gear. It may be easier if I make a video next time I work on it, if I can't find the issue on my own.
Old 05-29-2015, 03:01 PM
  #432  
GSR
My Feedback: (145)
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Seal Beach, CA
Posts: 1,970
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tow
As I have the "new" version, I imagne splitting the hatch to obtain a removable mid-section would be the way to go. Quite a task to undertake, but should be doable. Good Luck!
I did that-Pretty sure I posted some pics at the start of this thread or the other Carf 15 thread. scotty
Old 05-30-2015, 01:24 AM
  #433  
Pondus
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Molde, NORWAY
Posts: 107
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Here's the pictures I have of how I did the hatch, from my build thread on the other site : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=30
Old 06-02-2015, 08:22 PM
  #434  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Very helpful Pondus, thanks!

As to my gear issue, I now have the main gear in the wing retracting fine...probably too fast actually, it really slams up into the wing. But when I try to lower it, the unlock won't release on its own. If I push up on the gear I feel a click, then it comes down via the air pressure in the lines. So it's like unlock is jammed until I free it by pushing up on the wheel, if that makes sense. I suspect the gear rails aren't true and it's getting in a bind, but any tips on getting the rails exact would be appreciated.
Old 06-03-2015, 12:28 AM
  #435  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
Very helpful Pondus, thanks!

As to my gear issue, I now have the main gear in the wing retracting fine...probably too fast actually, it really slams up into the wing. But when I try to lower it, the unlock won't release on its own. If I push up on the gear I feel a click, then it comes down via the air pressure in the lines. So it's like unlock is jammed until I free it by pushing up on the wheel, if that makes sense. I suspect the gear rails aren't true and it's getting in a bind, but any tips on getting the rails exact would be appreciated.
Quite a minor bind will cause this to happen. The rails have to be absolutely true. Also make sure the wheels don`t touch the wheel-well bottom (wing-skin) when retracted.
Old 06-03-2015, 12:35 AM
  #436  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kimhey
Good question! I have found out that takeoff flaps and speedbrakes is the best configuration for MY landings. I have done my landings this way for the last year or so. Full flaps and no speed brakes makes the Mig wanna "waggle" it's tail when the speed decreases. Full flaps and speedbrakes works great most of the time, but it might "bite"/(stop flying) you from time to time (only takeoff flaps is acutally better).

So....Personally I have worked my way to the conclution that takeoff flaps and speedbrakes (they open 13-14cm) is my favorite landing configuration.

Kim
I`m Gonna try that config.too! As for the tail-wiggle..... Use of a gyro is mentioned in the manual as well. I have one of these http://www.eagletreesystems.com/inde...&product_id=50
Will it do the job?
Old 06-03-2015, 07:08 AM
  #437  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tow
Quite a minor bind will cause this to happen. The rails have to be absolutely true. Also make sure the wheels don`t touch the wheel-well bottom (wing-skin) when retracted.
Yeah, I think I still have some shimming left to go to get the wheel off the wing skin...with the gear retracted it's touching lightly enough that I can spin the tire in the well, but it's definitely rubbing the skin a bit. I have the gear shimmed 1/16" off the rails, and even with just that much the outer door won't close flush against the bottom of the wing so I was hoping to avoid shimming them up any more if I can avoid it. I may be able to grind down the front edge of the retract bracket itself for clearance if needed.
Old 06-03-2015, 08:36 AM
  #438  
Craig B.
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: PERTH, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
Yeah, I think I still have some shimming left to go to get the wheel off the wing skin...with the gear retracted it's touching lightly enough that I can spin the tire in the well, but it's definitely rubbing the skin a bit. I have the gear shimmed 1/16" off the rails, and even with just that much the outer door won't close flush against the bottom of the wing so I was hoping to avoid shimming them up any more if I can avoid it. I may be able to grind down the front edge of the retract bracket itself for clearance if needed.
You have found the source of your problem. Wheels should never touch the top skin as Kim has alluded to. This will cause any retract to bind up and not unlock. Just shim the gear slightly so you have slight clearance and the wheel can spin freely, then the locking pin will not bind in the retract side frames.....easy fix.
Old 06-03-2015, 08:43 AM
  #439  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
Yeah, I think I still have some shimming left to go to get the wheel off the wing skin...with the gear retracted it's touching lightly enough that I can spin the tire in the well, but it's definitely rubbing the skin a bit. I have the gear shimmed 1/16" off the rails, and even with just that much the outer door won't close flush against the bottom of the wing so I was hoping to avoid shimming them up any more if I can avoid it. I may be able to grind down the front edge of the retract bracket itself for clearance if needed.
Mine ended up not flushing too nicely too. You just have to work with it. These retracts is a real pain to get it right!
Still the final product can be rewarding :-)
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0449.JPG
Views:	810
Size:	3.80 MB
ID:	2100246   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSC_2561.JPG
Views:	727
Size:	647.0 KB
ID:	2100247  
Old 06-03-2015, 10:18 AM
  #440  
kimhey
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Notteroy, NORWAY
Posts: 498
Received 5 Likes on 2 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by tow
I`m Gonna try that config.too! As for the tail-wiggle..... Use of a gyro is mentioned in the manual as well. I have one of these http://www.eagletreesystems.com/inde...&product_id=50
Will it do the job?
Yes I believe so. I have a Futaba 351 gyro on both ailerons and rudder. I am not sure whether the rudder gyro is giving me the intended result anymore, as the rudder linkage has developed quite some slop/play after all this time. I will most likely redo the rudder linkage after the flying season. I am pretty sure that the model felt more "locked in" in the beginning...
Old 06-03-2015, 11:34 AM
  #441  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Very reasuring as I already have this ET gyro laying around. As said maiden will most likely go without any. As for the rudder it`s very likely to have developed some slack over time.At least pull-pull on nosewheels are prone to do so.
Old 06-04-2015, 05:21 AM
  #442  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Craig B.
You have found the source of your problem. Wheels should never touch the top skin as Kim has alluded to. This will cause any retract to bind up and not unlock. Just shim the gear slightly so you have slight clearance and the wheel can spin freely, then the locking pin will not bind in the retract side frames.....easy fix.
Well I think you were right about why the gear wouldn't unlock. I shimmed with washers just to get the clearance needed so the tire isn't touching the bottom of the wheel well and it now retracts fine (using both cylinders/rams), and on extension it unlocks and lowers about halfway and stops. I thought maybe the mount was twisted a bit on the rails so I loosened the mounting screws but no improvement. It's like I just don't have enough pressure getting to the extension side of the cylinder. Not sure if this will work as I'm planning, but going to hook up an extra air gauge at the wing root instead of hooking up the down line, and when I cycle the valve I'll see how much pressure is going out on that line. Maybe I just have a restriction somewhere.
Old 06-04-2015, 05:49 AM
  #443  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
Well I think you were right about why the gear wouldn't unlock. I shimmed with washers just to get the clearance needed so the tire isn't touching the bottom of the wheel well and it now retracts fine (using both cylinders/rams), and on extension it unlocks and lowers about halfway and stops. I thought maybe the mount was twisted a bit on the rails so I loosened the mounting screws but no improvement. It's like I just don't have enough pressure getting to the extension side of the cylinder. Not sure if this will work as I'm planning, but going to hook up an extra air gauge at the wing root instead of hooking up the down line, and when I cycle the valve I'll see how much pressure is going out on that line. Maybe I just have a restriction somewhere.
Maybe still some binding somewhere, sounds puzzling as gravity also should aid in lowering the gear (it`s quite heavy).....You need a lot of pressure thou... between 80 and 120 PSI should work. I have a valve on mine making it slow in-fast out, works great, but as said, need some pressure.
Old 06-09-2015, 08:19 AM
  #444  
Auburn02
My Feedback: (1)
 
Auburn02's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,094
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Default

Well I think i got it now. Had a friend look at it and he felt it was just too stiff in the housing in general, even when it wasn't mounted in the airplane. Looks like the pivot arm itself was being clamped too tightly by the mounting brackets, so I put a single washer at one end of the spacer between the two side brackets and the gear works much smoother now.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2171 (Small).JPG
Views:	111
Size:	60.4 KB
ID:	2101631   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2172 (Small).JPG
Views:	100
Size:	56.7 KB
ID:	2101632  
Old 06-09-2015, 09:05 AM
  #445  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Auburn02
Well I think i got it now. Had a friend look at it and he felt it was just too stiff in the housing in general, even when it wasn't mounted in the airplane. Looks like the pivot arm itself was being clamped too tightly by the mounting brackets, so I put a single washer at one end of the spacer between the two side brackets and the gear works much smoother now.
Sounds a bit strange, must have been something wrong with the machining tolerances, but main thing you got the issue solved.
Old 06-23-2015, 05:13 AM
  #446  
leider
My Feedback: (2)
 
leider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Did someone managed to solve the wing landing gear spring issue, spring not strong enough to keep any clearance, totally compressed, aluminium touching aluminium just with the plane weight with no fuel ?
Old 06-23-2015, 07:17 AM
  #447  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I ended up placing a heavier spring on outside the damper. Not quite scale but it will work
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCN0875.JPG
Views:	781
Size:	3.87 MB
ID:	2105248  
Old 06-23-2015, 09:02 AM
  #448  
leider
My Feedback: (2)
 
leider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Good approach ! I like it , Thank You ! did you loose some of the original travel ?
Old 06-23-2015, 11:28 AM
  #449  
tow
 
tow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Namsostrondelag, NORWAY
Posts: 443
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

You really don`t need that much movement in the suspension. You just prevent the shocks to go bottom when a landing is less than silky (like mine).
Old 06-23-2015, 02:13 PM
  #450  
leider
My Feedback: (2)
 
leider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 64
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

True you have a solid point :-)

Will start looking for a nice suitable spring.....


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.