Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
03-02-2008, 06:32 AM
#1
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Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
03-02-2008, 07:34 AM
#3
Thread Starter
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
and a new job.....how can they risk the lives of so many poeple, when they know there is so much crosswind.....
03-02-2008, 08:26 AM
#4
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RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
Wouldn't want to be in charge of cleaning the seats in the passenger cabin after that one [:'(]
Regards
Scott
Regards
Scott
03-02-2008, 10:04 AM
#5
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: SJN
and a new job.....how can they risk the lives of so many poeple, when they know there is so much crosswind.....
and a new job.....how can they risk the lives of so many poeple, when they know there is so much crosswind.....
Regards, don ray (a300 capt)
03-02-2008, 10:37 AM
#6
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: highhorse
Actually, the wind wasn't that great a risk when the airplane is properly flown.... but the technique displayed in the vid completely and totally SUCKED. Very poor aviating.
Regards, don ray (a300 capt)
ORIGINAL: SJN
and a new job.....how can they risk the lives of so many poeple, when they know there is so much crosswind.....
and a new job.....how can they risk the lives of so many poeple, when they know there is so much crosswind.....
Regards, don ray (a300 capt)
03-02-2008, 11:03 AM
#7
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
Bob
03-02-2008, 12:02 PM
#9
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
The reason you do not align sooner is because when you cross control spoiler panels begin to deploy on the upwind wing and coupling that with the increased drag of the rudder being deflected (they are very large) you end up with a giant sink rate and unless you catch it...will end up in the lights.
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
03-02-2008, 12:15 PM
#10
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RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
Hello,
I am Captain on Airbus 320 for Air France,and I think it's very easy to criticize the pilots when you you are behind your TV!Maybe the cross wind was only about 25 knots(on Airbus 320 max constant cross wind is 33kts for landing)but it's is clear that these german guys encountered a severe gust during flare.Anyway Lufthansa pilots are not known as bad pilots and I don't think we can make statements about their abilities or why they didn't divert without having solid and real facts!
Best regards from Europe!
I am Captain on Airbus 320 for Air France,and I think it's very easy to criticize the pilots when you you are behind your TV!Maybe the cross wind was only about 25 knots(on Airbus 320 max constant cross wind is 33kts for landing)but it's is clear that these german guys encountered a severe gust during flare.Anyway Lufthansa pilots are not known as bad pilots and I don't think we can make statements about their abilities or why they didn't divert without having solid and real facts!
Best regards from Europe!
03-02-2008, 12:40 PM
#11
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RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
You are completely right. I`d never criticize pilot`s work when I don`t know the facts. This video is very impressive and of course it was an extreme situation. But I don`t know the actual windspeed / gusts and direction and other relevant facts during this incident.
and I´m glad, that I wasn`t in charge.
Regards from another 320 CPT
and I´m glad, that I wasn`t in charge.
Regards from another 320 CPT
03-02-2008, 01:20 PM
#14
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: Synthetic
That's a landing...
What about this take off ? [X(]
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=629_1183153555
That's a landing...
What about this take off ? [X(]
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=629_1183153555
as seen on discovery .
i believe they where setting minimum take off speed.
and screwed about 2 skid plates of 15cm of steel.
03-02-2008, 01:23 PM
#15
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: Synthetic
That's a landing...
What about this take off ? [X(]
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=629_1183153555
That's a landing...
What about this take off ? [X(]
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=629_1183153555
Result: tailstrike and burned fuselage.[8D]
03-02-2008, 01:23 PM
#16
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RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
It's a pretty neat video. It looks as if it does not have enough airspeed when it first rotates and then the massive engines just shove it up into the air. That is quite impressive..
Don
Don
03-02-2008, 01:27 PM
#17
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: Synthetic
It's a pretty neat video. It looks as if it does not have enough airspeed when it first rotates and then the massive engines just shove it up into the air. That is quite impressive..
Don
It's a pretty neat video. It looks as if it does not have enough airspeed when it first rotates and then the massive engines just shove it up into the air. That is quite impressive..
Don
if you look good
you see it hang on the fuselage , tail vibrating
as soon the nose was about 100 ft in the air the pilot used nose down to get the tail of the ground.
i guess it is CG manouvering
03-02-2008, 03:02 PM
#20
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: bevar
The actual crosswind component was really only 25 knots or so...so it was no big deal. Piss poor pilot techniques is all it was...he blew it.
Some days you get the bull...others the bull gets you.
B
The actual crosswind component was really only 25 knots or so...so it was no big deal. Piss poor pilot techniques is all it was...he blew it.
Some days you get the bull...others the bull gets you.
B
Just wondering how you know the crosswind component was only 25kts? Did you read some official report on this incident?
03-02-2008, 04:50 PM
#21
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
Yep.
>>the wind wind was 300/30G50 kts. Crosswind component roughly 15 Gusting 25 Kts. Runway was 33.<<
Beave
>>the wind wind was 300/30G50 kts. Crosswind component roughly 15 Gusting 25 Kts. Runway was 33.<<
Beave
ORIGINAL: causeitflies-RCU
bevar,
Just wondering how you know the crosswind component was only 25kts? Did you read some official report on this incident?
ORIGINAL: bevar
The actual crosswind component was really only 25 knots or so...so it was no big deal. Piss poor pilot techniques is all it was...he blew it.
Some days you get the bull...others the bull gets you.
B
The actual crosswind component was really only 25 knots or so...so it was no big deal. Piss poor pilot techniques is all it was...he blew it.
Some days you get the bull...others the bull gets you.
B
Just wondering how you know the crosswind component was only 25kts? Did you read some official report on this incident?
03-02-2008, 05:09 PM
#22
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
ORIGINAL: bevar
The reason you do not align sooner is because when you cross control spoiler panels begin to deploy on the upwind wing and coupling that with the increased drag of the rudder being deflected (they are very large) you end up with a giant sink rate and unless you catch it...will end up in the lights.
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
The reason you do not align sooner is because when you cross control spoiler panels begin to deploy on the upwind wing and coupling that with the increased drag of the rudder being deflected (they are very large) you end up with a giant sink rate and unless you catch it...will end up in the lights.
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
03-02-2008, 05:11 PM
#23
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
Easy to criticise, you guys, very easy. But we all know that landing in STEADY crosswinds, even very strong X-winds, is no big deal at all. Rapidly changeing strong gusts coupled with turbulence are quite another matter, as a 747f found out landing at Manchester early Sat morning. At least two pods scraped.
Regards, David Gladwin.
Regards, David Gladwin.
03-02-2008, 05:22 PM
#24
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
Bob,
Oh sure...I agree on the difference between tecnieques and procedures. All jet's are different (I know you know that...just adding it for the sake of those who might not understand that). In the 75, you can cross it up and align at 100' or so and it's no big deal...do that in the 737-800 and it's so long Charlie. The Super-80...you do it at the last second too...at least that's the way they taught me and it seems to work.
I guess I mis-spoke in my prior post on the "technique"...I should have said it seems that it just got away from them...it was not "piss poor". I've rolled it on in the worst weather you could imagine...then really crunched it on in the best weather you could ever ask for...hence the "some days you get the bull...some days the bull gets you".
Beave
Oh sure...I agree on the difference between tecnieques and procedures. All jet's are different (I know you know that...just adding it for the sake of those who might not understand that). In the 75, you can cross it up and align at 100' or so and it's no big deal...do that in the 737-800 and it's so long Charlie. The Super-80...you do it at the last second too...at least that's the way they taught me and it seems to work.
I guess I mis-spoke in my prior post on the "technique"...I should have said it seems that it just got away from them...it was not "piss poor". I've rolled it on in the worst weather you could imagine...then really crunched it on in the best weather you could ever ask for...hence the "some days you get the bull...some days the bull gets you".
Beave
ORIGINAL: highhorse
While I myself am comfortable making the change in the flare, some others are not. Many of my F/O's elect to "set it up" farther back on the approach and I have never, ever, felt like we were going to "end up in the lights" !! Conversely, Beave, don't you think that the technique ( not to be confused with procedure ) preferred by you and me lactally leaves a thinner margin for error since we're displacing spoilers and rudder at 20 feet rather than 100 or 200?
ORIGINAL: bevar
The reason you do not align sooner is because when you cross control spoiler panels begin to deploy on the upwind wing and coupling that with the increased drag of the rudder being deflected (they are very large) you end up with a giant sink rate and unless you catch it...will end up in the lights.
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
The reason you do not align sooner is because when you cross control spoiler panels begin to deploy on the upwind wing and coupling that with the increased drag of the rudder being deflected (they are very large) you end up with a giant sink rate and unless you catch it...will end up in the lights.
The "alignment maneuver" is done just prior to touchdown.
Beave
BA-3100, SF-340, DC-9, B-727, B-737, B-757, B-767
ORIGINAL: rhklenke
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
So why would you change fro a crab to a slip that low to the runway? The famous 747 landing in Hong Kong results from the same thing. Why would you not get the upwind wing down and the nose aligned with the runway sooner? He kicked the rudder to align the nose and it caused the airplane to roll - duh! Switch to a slip when you cross the fence and then if it doesn't work out, you can go around from much higher, right?
Bob
03-02-2008, 05:40 PM
#25
RE: Crazy A320 crosswind wing scrape go around
I've rolled it on in the worst weather you could imagine...then really crunched it on in the best weather you could ever ask for...hence the "some days you get the bull...some days the bull gets you".