Mr DJ

CountryBoy - You came back at me with respect - I respect that in a man even if we disagree - you've got an instant friend...

Bob - see you at Fentress, maybe...

George - Whatever, my Man...

George

My Feedback: (57)

Mr. DJ,

What kind of response is that? I'm being sincere even if you aren't!

I'm trying to be objective here.

If you have not inferred from numerous past post, people are not questioning your loyal support for FEJ, but rather your BLIND loyal support for a product/s you have ZEROexperience with, and not just in this post, but every FEJ post. I don't know your exact modeling experience, but I think I know your jet experience.

People welcome input and suggestions from experienced modelers and reps, but until you meet that qualification, your posts turn many people off. Every time you have been asked about your particular experience in the relevant post, you avoid the question and/or sidestep it with either a "witty" or "capitulating"comment.

Nobody here knows everything, including myself; that's why we come here to learn. What I have noticed lately is that many "new" modelers are getting sucked into low priced items and don't have the experience to recognize or even deal with obvious and not-so obvious problems. And I'm not just talking about FEJ either.

Please take this as constructive, not destructive.

R/
George

AndyAndrews

Guys, I have formally requested a new kit from James. I was just informed that another person had this pipe fail on them after only two runs. They were lucky it happened on the ground, although their jet was damaged.

Another person called to tell me that they checked the end of their pipe and it looked to be loose at the connection point where mine failed. I have not recieved a response from James as of yet and will report what they decide.

Eagle Driver, how else would you have put out the fire? I would think that a continued burn with slow cool downwould be much more harmfull than putting it out right away. The turbine factories will tell you that the CO2 does no harm to the turbines. It should not do harm to a hot pipe. The melting point of 316 stainless is 2552 F or 1400c. Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt.

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Why are the FEJ fanboys ignoring the photo's of the pipe construction? I dont have as much experience as most of the people on this board, but i have been around to know that the majority of the photo's posted of pipes failing b/c of wet starts have been at either the bellmouth end, or where the " bi pipes " split into the 2 pipes. According to the pictures and first hand reports from the owner/pilot and the spotter, this pipe failed at the spot welds, well aft of those area's. hell, if we had a part manufacture'd like that at my job, that person would be fired on the spot, their is no reason for an individual / company to make a part like that, and then not back up their product it causes a couple of grand in loss's, especially in more than one instance as seems to be the case here.

Just my 2 cents that were left over from lunch, so take it how it is.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Yep, had the same problem with the air lines in my FEJ F-15 - which brings up point #2345, replace all of the air lines in your FEJ aircraft because it too, is junk and will fail...

Bob

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

so bob.. any guess on how long the F-14's will last? lol j/k

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

DJ,

I'll be at Fentress on Saturday - weather permitting. I'll probably bring my highly modified (+$500 of additional "replacement parts") FEJ F-15 to fly...

Bob

Timo44

...sorry pilot I don't want to bother you, but it seems that my post 1322 got lost in the hight piror discussion you have with the

pipe -

now I more lost confidence in FEJ products which seems besides construction problems also to have really bad

material problems too -

anyway I would be happy to hear some suggestions for my gear issue during re and detract hitting the doors.

George

My Feedback: (57)

Stefan, (Edit: Misspelled your name the first time, sorry)

You might find the answers earlier in the thread. I know it's 50+ pages to read through, but it may be best to read the entire thread; that way you will be able to see if there are other areas that you want to look at, and you might find something you never thought of.

R/
George

Mr DJ

Bob

I'll see you there - I'll be the old man with the bald head

George

And the pissing contest begings - so you havebeen keeping tabs on me - hmm... ...not here my friend, sorry, I'm not going there withyouand I don't roll like that...

lov2flyrc

My Feedback: (24)

Interesting read.... Andy, sorry for the loss, certainly a had one to swallow.

Having seen several pipe failures over the years on both straight and bifurcated, I thought I would drop my .02 overboard on this...
Typically, pipe damage from a wet/hot start is isolated to the belmouth area and down the pipe around 12 inches or so. Damage is typically seen as a bluish haze on the pipe and sometimes a little ripple in the stainless at the damage zone. Some bifurcated pipes will show these signs at or just past the split. In all the pipe failures that I have seen due to hot/wet starts, the pipe has collapsed, similar to what was posted above. The inner pipe walls will fold in upon themselves. This is usually followed by the big bang, where the hot exhaust gasses have been restricted and pressure builds instantly followed by hatches blowing off (ask Sean Reitmeyer!).
What appears to have happened to Andy, at least what I can gather from the information posted, is this failure had absolutely nothing to do with his hot start and everything to do with a poorly made pipe. There is very clear proof that the section of pipe shown was not fabricated properly and this alone was the cause of the pipe failure. There is no signs of heat damage to the area of failure! The lack of spot welds on the securing tabs is obvious. Had the pipe been fabricated properly, these tabs would either be ripped off or severly torn. Had it failed due to heat damage, the inner pipe would be collapsed, not spiting sections of the pipe out the tail!
Mr DJ, with all due respect, you have very little turbine expreience under your belt and zero experience flying anything from the company you "Rep". Correct me if I am wrong, but I dont think you even have any flight time on a jet with a pipe? Perhaps it would be best for FEJ to respond directly to this issue since you really dont have the knowledge required to respond to this customers issue?

Andy, I wish you the best of luck getting this resolved. Shame to loose all this equipment over a poorly made product.

jetnuno

Hi Andy

I am truly sorry for your loss. I'm even more sorry because it wasn't your fault. The welding is not proper.

As you might know I have start building my FEJ F18 and I am planning to put a 18 to 20Kg thrust turbine. Tonight I will pick MY BRAND NEW FEJ F18F PIPE and will check for the weldings, if visible.

I have own 2 FEJ planes but I really feel that they are putting testing in the hands of customers. It really doesn't matter that we get the planes with "special price for 10 experienced customers", because as experienced as you might be, you could not avoid this type of crash.......

Since I received my airframe I have requested all the mods mentioned in this thread - neew gear springs, new wood brackets for the gear, new cilinders, etc.

maybe and just maybe if I had already built and flew this plane, I could be in your shoes and eventhough it is not very usefull for you I really thank all the people that have built, flown (crash) this plane and most important that have posted here.

I have stand by FEJ as a customer and FEJ SHOULD STAND BY THEIR CUSTOMERS.

i'LL CHECK MY PIPE SOON AND POST THE INFO....

Regards

Nuno

Eagle Driver

that broken air line was our fault, no factory issue .....

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

Good post Todd, you are right on the money...
I witnessed an FEJM F-18 crash at our club field. In thisinstance the pipe was not the reason for the crash but like i said in another post i noticed how the pipe had seperated in the same spot as in the photos here on this thread. I have seen many turbine wrecks (some were mine) and never have i seen a pipe seperate like the ones on the pic or the crash i witnessed. IMO This is clearly a poor quality tailpipe.
V..

jetnuno

Ok guys

Sorry, no camera at the present time.....

Upon visual inspection of the welding points of my FEJ F18F brand new tail pipe, I can clearly see in the inside stainless steel tube that the weldings are very poor. The welding points don't seem to connect the 2 inner split pipes together.

I also have a Feibao F18F with arround60 flightsand by comparison the welding spots in this section (Inner section of the split pipes), are well done with bigger depth, better aligment and placed in couples. Also the welding points are doubled than the FEJ ones in this same section. The FEJ welding points in this section are very poor. The outside welding points are ok.

The most important point is that THE INNER TUBES ARE NOTWELDED TOGETHER ALL ALONG THE SECTION AND THUS THE PIPES ARE NOT WELDED ALL ALONG THE SECTION.

The split pipes are elliptical and the final section of the pipes (when you look in the rear) are round, so not welding all along the section.

The gold question: will FEJ F18F owners fly with this pipe? I sure know what to anwser......

Oliver, are you flying the standadrd pipe?

Regards

Nuno

rbxbear44

My Feedback: (86)

Andy Man and Kevin dude...what a tragedy Bro! I know this has been a tough year for you and the folks in China!!! Me, I have been a patriot of FEJ all along BUT...inasmuch as my F-18 has been done for a while...I will not fly it till I get the Gear mods from FEJ and now, I am watching how they are handling all the issues from those whom have flown the planes. When it comes to what I think, I am still in the cheap seats because I haven't put the F18 on the runway yet. Actually, too busy flying my SM F16 and trying to keep my company alive through this economy!!! I did hand the F-15 over to a pro builder since I have not had the time to fart around with another plane needing upgrades and he is an eagle eye for weaknesses and he is over the top when it comes to mods and final touches on weathering and such. Plus, I get ticked off when I see planes sitting around and not flying and call it a waste of money and then fire sale it!!!

Bottom line for me...the F-18 is still a great design and plane from FEJ. IF I had the gear mod done...it would have been in the air by now...but maybe glad I have not been too motivated to get it out there with the pipe issue now. With the gear mod and a TAM or somewhat equal pipe....this bird is a winner in my book. Oliver has had great success with it AFTER the gear mod. So, I will wait patiently (James, where in the heck is my gear mod?) for the gear mod stuff and I have ordered my TAM pipe today. As soon as I get these in the plane and put a heat shield around my Elevator servos...the plane will be a hit...hopefully not for a tree!!!

What do I think FEJ ought to do for Andy? Doesn't matter what I think, but I have met and spoken withAndy and know for certain that he will be able to handle things with James without folks egging on a fight. And, I bet Andy will be able to let everyone know what thefinal deal is in all of this. Either way, whatever happens here will effect FEJ one way or the other...for the sake of the hobby and all of us, I hope it will breed a positive result and we can go do what we love to do....FLY JETS!


Oh yea...and DJ, BADFORM on trying to sell Andy one of your FEJ Jets...what in the heck were you thinking, MAN?

Rex

tamjets

My Feedback: (2)

The Tam pipe price just goes up.

I start on the first one tomorrow.
Call in get yours before nothing left ( I mean the plane).

jetnuno

I really hope that the pipe issue is the last one..............................................

Ok, let's wait for the outcome. Hoping that you come out of this less unhappy, Andy.

From all the other issues with David, Kevin, Oliver, etc. there was never a total loss, any way. Now there are 2 reported - Autorot's friend and Andy,allby the same issue.

Well, besides buying a turbine, I have to buy a pipe. Do you guys know who can make a good one in Europe?

Regards

Nuno

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

In my 6 yrs of flying turbines, I have experienced probably every method of wetstarting or hotstarting a turbine! From stuck valves, to forgetting to close the valve when refueling, to forgetting to close the smoke valve and ending up with a pool of smoke fluid in the bypass which immediately ignited, you name it I've probably done it! But the one thing I have never experienced is, a Tam Pipe or other high quality German pipe, failing, in any shape, manner or form, due to this abuse or for any other reason. The pipe in my Tam Hornet is 5 years old with hundreds of flights and quite a bit of abuse on my part. It still performs perfectly. In this specific instance, IMHO, you gets what you pay for! The quality of mfg when it comes to this sort of item is proven, not in how well it performs under ideal conditions, but how well it continues to perform after you've screwed the pooch with it. The pipes supplied by FlyEagle, do not, again in my opinion, compare to a more expensive Tam pipe, (at these prices, how could they) and as such should not be expected to give you the same number of duty cycles or stand up to the same level of abuse you might expect from the higher quality pipe. That being said, you have every right to expect the pipe to be properly constructed to handle standard usage! Andy's pipe appears to be missing some critical welds on the tabs. UNACCEPTABLE! The remedy will and should be handled between Andy and FlyEagle, with the result being reported at it's conclusion.

For future reference, I would say that the FlyEagle pipes, as supplied, are adequate for standard usage when properly constructed & installed. If or when the pipe experiences any thing beyond that, ie(a hotstart) I would look to replace it! I have had no problems with the pipe in my F-18, though it only has about 25 flights on it. Time will tell exactly how long it will last, or how many duty cycles it will sustain, but again I would not expect it to last as long as a higher quality, more expensive pipe. I will look to replace it at the first sign of any trouble. I would suggest everyone else make their own decision as to whether to simply replace the pipe with something better, at the start, or to utilize the included pipe.

Andy's pipe disintegrating is the first and only report, I know of, of this occurring. It might be a single instance of a spot welder not paying attention that day. Or it could turn out to be a recurring problem. At this time NO ONE knows, for sure. I don't think a full on panic is yet called for.

Andy you have my condolences for the loss! I know how much you were looking forward to continued use of that LPSS Rhino. I'm sure Eric and JetCentral will do their best for you. I'm also sure you will let us all know how this comes out with FlyEagle.

David S

jetnuno

"I will look to replace it at the first sign of any trouble"

You already have it....replace it.

You mentioned German pipes. I was looking for a good manufacturer in Europe. Do you know any?

ONE MORE THING: FEJ F18F PIPE THICKNESS IN THE OUTER WALL AT THE EXHAUST - 0,15MM OR 0,00590". INNER WALL - THE SAME AS OUTTER WALL

FEIBAO F18F PIPE THICKNESS IN THE OUTER WALL AT THE EXHAUST- 0,25MM OR 0,00984" - INNER WALL - 0,15MM OR 0,00984

Regards

Nuno

David Searles

My Feedback: (49)

Nuno,

I say again, I have had no trouble with MY pipe.

As for pipes in Europe, I'd call AirWorld, or SkyGate and ask them who makes their pipes. I've owned both and they are excellent.

David S

AndyAndrews

I am currently in negotiations with James at FEJ.  He said he had to talk to the factory before making any decisions.  He is strongly continding that the wet start caused the failure.  He said that he has even seen a straight pipe without any seams in it separate in two pieces etc.  My contention is that this is not comparing apples to apples.  The straight pipe did not separate from bad welds.  It was probably torn in two.  I Will post results soon. 

I have a FEJ pipe, a Tams pipe and a Skymaster pipe.  I will be putting a micrometer on all three and will take a picture of the the results and post.

Thanks,

Andy

PS - I have talked to Eric Clapp and he has a FEJ F-18 and a F-15.  They measured the thickness of the inner pipe on the F-15 - .003 - the outer pipe was .005.

Mr DJ

Rex

My intent wasn't to make money - it was a simply a move to save Andy money if he wanted to go that round again - that's all it was. And Andy has expressed no problems with that. However, from the eyes of someone just jumping in the forum, it may appear to be poor taste. Thanks for bringing it up.

Mr DJ

Todd

See PM; no need to show the world.

morro

hope you have some success Andy, maybe for those people that have the 18 you might think about strengthening the pipe by adding and additional outer skin that is slightly thicker and get it welded properly at least if the FEJ pipe fails you still have a chance of getting the bird home. As with dealing with any of these companies it takes a long time to get replacements and it can be frustrating. I hope the quality of the pipe on the large f-16 is up to speed.

regards

Todd