Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
08-05-2008, 01:06 AM
#26
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
I wonder if this is just the 6014?
I've been flying fasst with the 617 rx all summer in six planes..
I have the 617 in my cermark F-16 EDF sitting in front of two 6s 5000 mah batteriers that get about 135 degrees
I've been flying on 95 degree days... I do keep it in the shade when not flying
but I hope it's not a problem for all RX's
Ron
I've been flying fasst with the 617 rx all summer in six planes..
I have the 617 in my cermark F-16 EDF sitting in front of two 6s 5000 mah batteriers that get about 135 degrees
I've been flying on 95 degree days... I do keep it in the shade when not flying
but I hope it's not a problem for all RX's
Ron
08-05-2008, 01:08 AM
#27
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: rcjets_63
Well, I am an engineer and I'm guessing that the red light was the overtemperature light!!!!! Thank goodness I fly JR and don't have to worry about this problem.
Long live the 12X,
Jim
Well, I am an engineer and I'm guessing that the red light was the overtemperature light!!!!! Thank goodness I fly JR and don't have to worry about this problem.
Long live the 12X,
Jim
LOL, Jim,
Generally speaking in the world of flight, GREEN is GOOD, YELLOW means RED is coming and RED is BAD!!!! And for God's sake, no warning bells! It's all very simple.
Again, Ron was very lucky that he got to SEE the red light.........If it was in the air when it semi-failed to red, then he might have seen red-orange followed by billowing black................
I'm still keeping an open mind though...........This could all be a hoax. Like that single shooter/JFK thing.[:-]
John
08-05-2008, 04:59 AM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
OK, how about employing girls with umbrellas like they do in F1.
I don't know if this will help with the Rx problem, but the flying site will be a much nicer place.
glad you saved the model Ron, personally I would have taken it home to ponder.
I don't know if this will help with the Rx problem, but the flying site will be a much nicer place.
glad you saved the model Ron, personally I would have taken it home to ponder.
08-05-2008, 07:47 AM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
The 1st thing to realise here is that there are potentially 2 issues.
1) Direct sunlight onto the rx/powerbox at 100 F ambient will raise the rx temp significantly and very rapidly due to radiant heating or solar gain as it is often called. Your 5 minutes is enough.
2) The output voltage issues. Futaba 14 rx has a lower voltage output than standard rx’s on all channels apart from 1 and 2.
I believe that you suffered a marginal situation, ie: below full over temp shut down but high enough to cause some servos not to work due to the voltage issue.
Please read the following:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7365443/tm.htm]Here[/link]
Has your smart fly powerbox been updated to handle the new lower signal voltage?
I believe this is a no charge service (could be wrong so check).
So possible problem.
1) Powerbox has become marginal on the rx signal line and is only supplying positional data to some servos.
2) If the powerbox has been updated, the JR servos are on the ‘cusp’ of not seeing the signal.
Suggested Actions
Check powerbox for update status. When updated the JR servos should not be an issue.
Keep the RX open for ventilation but out of direct sunlight.
[link=http://2.4gigahertz.com/features/receiver-tips.html]here[/link]
Hope this is of help.
Paul
1) Direct sunlight onto the rx/powerbox at 100 F ambient will raise the rx temp significantly and very rapidly due to radiant heating or solar gain as it is often called. Your 5 minutes is enough.
2) The output voltage issues. Futaba 14 rx has a lower voltage output than standard rx’s on all channels apart from 1 and 2.
I believe that you suffered a marginal situation, ie: below full over temp shut down but high enough to cause some servos not to work due to the voltage issue.
Please read the following:
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7365443/tm.htm]Here[/link]
Has your smart fly powerbox been updated to handle the new lower signal voltage?
I believe this is a no charge service (could be wrong so check).
So possible problem.
1) Powerbox has become marginal on the rx signal line and is only supplying positional data to some servos.
2) If the powerbox has been updated, the JR servos are on the ‘cusp’ of not seeing the signal.
Suggested Actions
Check powerbox for update status. When updated the JR servos should not be an issue.
Keep the RX open for ventilation but out of direct sunlight.
[link=http://2.4gigahertz.com/features/receiver-tips.html]here[/link]
Hope this is of help.
Paul
08-05-2008, 08:24 AM
#31
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
I may end up building a nice little 1/16" balsa sheet "Gazebo" to sit around my receiver/smartfly board, to ensure its always in the shade. I'll paint it white too. It will look very nice in the cavernous fuselage of my Reaction, just behind the NLG! Like this one below, but smaller!
Like this one below, but smaller!
08-05-2008, 09:02 AM
#33
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Or buy Jr's post-it Multi RXs and make you model complex.
I actually have an easier time locating the remote receivers on the JR system than I do routing the longer antennae at 90 degrees on the Futaba system.
I have both systems, and they both have their pluses and minuses. They both have had some issues, but Horizon is the one that has stepped up each time and fixed it with minimal cost/inconvienence to the end user. Futaba's first response seems to be to blame the end user, then deny it, then admit there could be a problem, then admit that there is a problem that can be fixed by simply buying all new updated equipment. I like my futaba system (12Z) for many reasons, but they really need to get a grip on safety and customer service, especially when it is clear to everyone that there is a real problem here for those flying in hot climates. I will only use the JR 12X in my jets (post-it multi RXs or not).
08-05-2008, 09:14 AM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: arizonasun25
Thanks for the responses first it is a Futaba FASST 6014 receiver second the receivers is mounted in the middle of the smart fly power box and is exposed to sun when the canopy is not on. next It did bind just not give me all functions. I had motor, throtle and rudder. next I am running JR 8711 on all surfaces there is a total of 5 servos. I did not have any problem after the 5 min cool down period but I am concerned enough to not fly the rest of the summer over this problem and if there is not a fix I am going to take back all of the receivers I purchased over 10 and go back to spectrum.
Ronald R Long
Thanks for the responses first it is a Futaba FASST 6014 receiver second the receivers is mounted in the middle of the smart fly power box and is exposed to sun when the canopy is not on. next It did bind just not give me all functions. I had motor, throtle and rudder. next I am running JR 8711 on all surfaces there is a total of 5 servos. I did not have any problem after the 5 min cool down period but I am concerned enough to not fly the rest of the summer over this problem and if there is not a fix I am going to take back all of the receivers I purchased over 10 and go back to spectrum.
Ronald R Long
Have you tested the smart fly power box too?
08-05-2008, 10:10 AM
#36
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: digitech
this is the answer:[link=http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Images/Products/Challenge_AD_3.pdf]here[/link]
this is the answer:[link=http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Images/Products/Challenge_AD_3.pdf]here[/link]
LOL - ya gotta hand it to the Spektrum guys that they know how to get the best mileage out of Futaba's problems.
Gotta wonder though, why Futaba didn't make similar ad's about "You don't need to slap a $20 capacitor band-aid on OUR receivers", etc.
I expect there are probably a few more iterations of these teething problems to come from all sides.
08-05-2008, 10:27 AM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Yes smart fly was working normal. I do know that smart fly is in the process of making a cooling fan for the futaba receiver.
Ronald R Long
Ronald R Long
08-05-2008, 11:38 AM
#38
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
LOL - ya gotta hand it to the Spektrum guys that they know how to get the best mileage out of Futaba's problems.
Gotta wonder though, why Futaba didn't make similar ad's about "You don't need to slap a $20 capacitor band-aid on OUR receivers", etc.
I expect there are probably a few more iterations of these teething problems to come from all sides.
ORIGINAL: digitech
this is the answer:[link=http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Images/Products/Challenge_AD_3.pdf]here[/link]
this is the answer:[link=http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Images/Products/Challenge_AD_3.pdf]here[/link]
LOL - ya gotta hand it to the Spektrum guys that they know how to get the best mileage out of Futaba's problems.
Gotta wonder though, why Futaba didn't make similar ad's about "You don't need to slap a $20 capacitor band-aid on OUR receivers", etc.
I expect there are probably a few more iterations of these teething problems to come from all sides.
i think to be honnest that the Futaba fasst RX comes directly from their industrial units
where a overtemp would stop the system logical.
but for us rc we need to have always a link or dignal until it passes out.
i dont see the advantage for a electronic device that turn itself off at 63 degrees c and wait until it reaches 27 before turning on again.
08-05-2008, 11:43 AM
#39
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
I got my hands on several (2 dozen?) Sunon 5v fans we used for an automotive job. When i get the chance I will post a pic of how they work, I think you will need to do some slight mods to the RX case and then mount the fan, it plugs into any free RX port. More later.
08-05-2008, 12:43 PM
#40
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
It is a shame that a genuine request for sensible help and advice has once again turned into Futaba vs. Spektrum.
Under normal operating conditions (as recommended by Futaba) the system will work fine. No ambient temps are high enough even with the onboard generated heat of the rx to cause the rx to go above 60 C. It takes radiant energy to do that. Keep the rx out of direct sunlight when operating in areas of extreme ambient temps and all will be fine.
While we are at it, it should be remembered that Spektrums upper limit is only 70C !
Not that much more and very ‘reachable’ if in direct sunlight.
Futaba systems beat the Spektrum at low temps, 0C is the limit on Spektrum vs –10C on FASST. Last winter at our field 2 Spektrum sets refused to work below 0C while FASST was still flying.
The point is that equipment is evolving, and the benefits of both systems over the old 72/35meg are worth having. We need to adapt our installations to accommodate the technology; we have been doing it for years with each ‘generation’ of equipment.
60C or 70C for that matter is extremely hot, not good for any of the onboard systems, batteries, ecu’s, power boxes and servos. (Never mind about the resins and glues used in the airframe!) It makes perfect sense to try and reduce this all we can.
The Giant aerobatic guys on another forum were the first that I know to report this issue, they had the rx sitting under a large clear greenhouse (canopy) in the blazing sun of Arizona. Some failed but after making some simple changes such as a piece of balsa with white pro film placed over the rx, the problem stopped. One guy has fitted and Eagle tree system to monitor the rx temp against ambient, and he has proved that even on the hottest days, provided the guidelines are followed and the rx is not in direct sunlight, the system works.
Paul
Under normal operating conditions (as recommended by Futaba) the system will work fine. No ambient temps are high enough even with the onboard generated heat of the rx to cause the rx to go above 60 C. It takes radiant energy to do that. Keep the rx out of direct sunlight when operating in areas of extreme ambient temps and all will be fine.
While we are at it, it should be remembered that Spektrums upper limit is only 70C !
Not that much more and very ‘reachable’ if in direct sunlight.
Futaba systems beat the Spektrum at low temps, 0C is the limit on Spektrum vs –10C on FASST. Last winter at our field 2 Spektrum sets refused to work below 0C while FASST was still flying.
The point is that equipment is evolving, and the benefits of both systems over the old 72/35meg are worth having. We need to adapt our installations to accommodate the technology; we have been doing it for years with each ‘generation’ of equipment.
60C or 70C for that matter is extremely hot, not good for any of the onboard systems, batteries, ecu’s, power boxes and servos. (Never mind about the resins and glues used in the airframe!) It makes perfect sense to try and reduce this all we can.
The Giant aerobatic guys on another forum were the first that I know to report this issue, they had the rx sitting under a large clear greenhouse (canopy) in the blazing sun of Arizona. Some failed but after making some simple changes such as a piece of balsa with white pro film placed over the rx, the problem stopped. One guy has fitted and Eagle tree system to monitor the rx temp against ambient, and he has proved that even on the hottest days, provided the guidelines are followed and the rx is not in direct sunlight, the system works.
Paul
08-05-2008, 12:58 PM
#41
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
It is a shame that a genuine request for sensible help and advice has once again turned into Futaba vs. Spektrum.
Under normal operating conditions (as recommended by Futaba) the system will work fine. No ambient temps are high enough even with the onboard generated heat of the rx to cause the rx to go above 60 C. It takes radiant energy to do that. Keep the rx out of direct sunlight when operating in areas of extreme ambient temps and all will be fine.
While we are at it, it should be remembered that Spektrums upper limit is only 70C !
Not that much more and very ‘reachable’ if in direct sunlight.
Futaba systems beat the Spektrum at low temps, 0C is the limit on Spektrum vs –10C on FASST. Last winter at our field 2 Spektrum sets refused to work below 0C while FASST was still flying.
The point is that equipment is evolving, and the benefits of both systems over the old 72/35meg are worth having. We need to adapt our installations to accommodate the technology; we have been doing it for years with each ‘generation’ of equipment.
60C or 70C for that matter is extremely hot, not good for any of the onboard systems, batteries, ecu’s, power boxes and servos. (Never mind about the resins and glues used in the airframe!) It makes perfect sense to try and reduce this all we can.
The Giant aerobatic guys on another forum were the first that I know to report this issue, they had the rx sitting under a large clear greenhouse (canopy) in the blazing sun of Arizona. Some failed but after making some simple changes such as a piece of balsa with white pro film placed over the rx, the problem stopped. One guy has fitted and Eagle tree system to monitor the rx temp against ambient, and he has proved that even on the hottest days, provided the guidelines are followed and the rx is not in direct sunlight, the system works.
Paul
It is a shame that a genuine request for sensible help and advice has once again turned into Futaba vs. Spektrum.
Under normal operating conditions (as recommended by Futaba) the system will work fine. No ambient temps are high enough even with the onboard generated heat of the rx to cause the rx to go above 60 C. It takes radiant energy to do that. Keep the rx out of direct sunlight when operating in areas of extreme ambient temps and all will be fine.
While we are at it, it should be remembered that Spektrums upper limit is only 70C !
Not that much more and very ‘reachable’ if in direct sunlight.
Futaba systems beat the Spektrum at low temps, 0C is the limit on Spektrum vs –10C on FASST. Last winter at our field 2 Spektrum sets refused to work below 0C while FASST was still flying.
The point is that equipment is evolving, and the benefits of both systems over the old 72/35meg are worth having. We need to adapt our installations to accommodate the technology; we have been doing it for years with each ‘generation’ of equipment.
60C or 70C for that matter is extremely hot, not good for any of the onboard systems, batteries, ecu’s, power boxes and servos. (Never mind about the resins and glues used in the airframe!) It makes perfect sense to try and reduce this all we can.
The Giant aerobatic guys on another forum were the first that I know to report this issue, they had the rx sitting under a large clear greenhouse (canopy) in the blazing sun of Arizona. Some failed but after making some simple changes such as a piece of balsa with white pro film placed over the rx, the problem stopped. One guy has fitted and Eagle tree system to monitor the rx temp against ambient, and he has proved that even on the hottest days, provided the guidelines are followed and the rx is not in direct sunlight, the system works.
Paul
i sell both..
Spektrum claims 307 degrees F
08-05-2008, 01:22 PM
#42
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
307F 
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
08-05-2008, 01:29 PM
#43
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
307F
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
307F
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
so basicly Spektrum are a bunch of lyers then..
i mean your the specialist on fasst..
btw our ecu,s used to start desolder them selves before they would quit.
those things are patriots!.
and thatis NO lie
read the spektrum pdf http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Im...lenge_AD_3.pdf
dont tempt me to destroy a AR9000 while testing the temps
i will test it if Spektrum send me a new one , i got lots of torture electronic tools..
08-05-2008, 02:25 PM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Advertizing is all smoke and mirrors... it is all half truths and misleading stats. The thermal test chamber (oven in the break room) reached 307F (read from wife's candy thermoter) before it failed (who knows what the actual temp of the chip set was or how quickly the temp ramped up, etc., doesn't matter, we have a cool picture of a melted RX.)
JR, Futaba, I don't care. But to the point, I have a 6014, it has been hot here, 90's to 100's. I mounted as per Futaba's instructions and kept model shaded (which I would try to do anyway) and I have not had any issues.
JR, Futaba, I don't care. But to the point, I have a 6014, it has been hot here, 90's to 100's. I mounted as per Futaba's instructions and kept model shaded (which I would try to do anyway) and I have not had any issues.
08-05-2008, 02:33 PM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
ORIGINAL: digitech
so basicly Spektrum are a bunch of lyers then..
i mean your the specialist on fasst..
btw our ecu,s used to start desolder them selves before they would quit.
those things are patriots!.
and thatis NO lie
read the spektrum pdf http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Im...lenge_AD_3.pdf
dont tempt me to destroy a AR9000 while testing the temps
i will test it if Spektrum send me a new one , i got lots of torture electronic tools..
ORIGINAL: GrayUK
307F
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
307F
Interesting, that meens the chipset will work to 153 C ! Well above military spec???
Well above the operating temp of all the associted equipment.
Ho Hum
so basicly Spektrum are a bunch of lyers then..
i mean your the specialist on fasst..
btw our ecu,s used to start desolder them selves before they would quit.
those things are patriots!.
and thatis NO lie
read the spektrum pdf http://www.spektrumrc.com/Content/Im...lenge_AD_3.pdf
dont tempt me to destroy a AR9000 while testing the temps
i will test it if Spektrum send me a new one , i got lots of torture electronic tools..
1) I doubt if they are liars I just question the validity of the test as it is rx only and no ancillary equipment.
2) I never said I was a FASST specialist, but I have done a lot of documented testing on it and found it to be excellent. I have also spent hundreds maybe thousands of hours testing military and commercial equipment to all extremes so I have a reasonable idea of what is a ‘valid’ test.
3) Yes, some electronics can operate at extreme temps, but not without functional impairment, they state, “ was functioning properly” define this, what range did it have? It may have still responded but its performance would be seriously reduced and probably all but useless to us.
4) You say you sell both, looking at your posts I would say that you should stop selling FASST, you obviously have no faith in it. (That’s the impression you create)
This is my last post on this Futaba vs. Spektrum diatribe; this thread was about a particular incident, I have tried to offer assistance the best I can. These arguments help no one. Because opinions are like *****holes….we all have one.
Paul
08-05-2008, 03:33 PM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
thanks everyone for the input. I put this up just to share the experience. I am concerned. I do not want one of my models flying out of control. I am sure that all share this feeling. I was hoping to hear that there was a fix for this problem so far none. Other than changing brands.
Ronald R Long
Ronald R Long
08-05-2008, 05:03 PM
#47
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Yep, its Futaba vs. Spektrum yet again. Today we flew a FASST RX out to over a mile at 2000' altitude with our Outlaw UAV with not a single hickup from the FASST system - sitting right next to the (noisy) flight control system with its two dinky antennas taped to a simple fiberglass support in a "V" shape. That's good enough performance for me to keep it out of the sun so as to not have any temp-related problems...
BTW, I flew all of my FASST jets this past weekend in 95+ degree temps - not a single problem. That's NOT to say it isn't a problem just to say that it can be avoided and FASST works well... YMMV...
Bob
BTW, I flew all of my FASST jets this past weekend in 95+ degree temps - not a single problem. That's NOT to say it isn't a problem just to say that it can be avoided and FASST works well... YMMV...
Bob
08-05-2008, 05:21 PM
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RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Guys the point for this thread was to in form the R/C community that this did happen and it could happen to you. I also was hoping that if FUTABA had a fix for this they would step up, and tell us what it is. I THEN WOULD TRADE IN THE UNOPENED EQUIPMENT I HAVE FOR THE NEW IMPROVED EQUIPMENT, AND LIFE WOULD GO ON. this has not happened. Futaba has no response for this, other than try to keep it out of the sun. I have herd nothing from Futaba what so ever. I will not risk some of the very expensive models I have for a (just keep it out of the sun it will work fine) response. So I guess there is no alternative other than to go back to JR SPECTRUM.The only reason I left was for more channels, Like I said in the begining of this thread I have both systems and have no favorite. at this point I will have to correct this point and say I do have a favorite, it is JR because I have never had a problem with my spectrum stuff. I will be going back to Jr now that they have a 12 x radio. Mark Taylor please contact me in regards.
Ronald R Long
Ronald R Long
08-05-2008, 05:40 PM
#49
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Ron,
Again, I'm not saying that you didn't have a problem or that Futaba's stance on this issue is right. Futaba's customer service leaves a lot to be desired and their reps are nowhere near as helpful as the JR guys - I've said that before. However, I can point to may more folks, both here on RCU and in the field, who have had problems with the Spektrum systems. Most of those have been ironed out, but a friend of mine severely damaged a jet this past May because of a problem with a Spektrum system and the rep's responce was "just rebind it and it'll be OK" - very spooky if you ask me.
Futaba has had the 0 GUID problem (fixed) and this one, and so far, that's all. In the field, head-to-head, except for this one unresolved issue - which I personally have never experienced or seen happen to any Futaba flyers I know, the performance of the FASST system is vastly superior to the Spektrum system.
It sounds like you are more comfortable with Spektrum/JR and are looking for a reason to go back. That's fine, but even if this issue HAD happened to me, I'd find a way to work around it because I think FASST is a more solid link and a better value. Again, YMMV...
Bob
Again, I'm not saying that you didn't have a problem or that Futaba's stance on this issue is right. Futaba's customer service leaves a lot to be desired and their reps are nowhere near as helpful as the JR guys - I've said that before. However, I can point to may more folks, both here on RCU and in the field, who have had problems with the Spektrum systems. Most of those have been ironed out, but a friend of mine severely damaged a jet this past May because of a problem with a Spektrum system and the rep's responce was "just rebind it and it'll be OK" - very spooky if you ask me.
Futaba has had the 0 GUID problem (fixed) and this one, and so far, that's all. In the field, head-to-head, except for this one unresolved issue - which I personally have never experienced or seen happen to any Futaba flyers I know, the performance of the FASST system is vastly superior to the Spektrum system.
It sounds like you are more comfortable with Spektrum/JR and are looking for a reason to go back. That's fine, but even if this issue HAD happened to me, I'd find a way to work around it because I think FASST is a more solid link and a better value. Again, YMMV...
Bob
08-05-2008, 05:58 PM
#50
RE: Futaba 2.4 overheat lock-out is for real
Actually Ron really likes his Futaba equipment, he is just freaked out that this happened to him. The first reports of the heat issue came from one of our club members who is also a Team Futaba pilot, Yuri Higuchi. We have ignored his warnings because we have not had problems. Now Ron has had a problem and he is concerned.
The wierd thing is not loosing all the channels. Channel 1 and 2 are on a different processor than 3 -12. Maybe Wayne(P38J) can chime in and tell us which channel numbers stayed running.
The wierd thing is not loosing all the channels. Channel 1 and 2 are on a different processor than 3 -12. Maybe Wayne(P38J) can chime in and tell us which channel numbers stayed running.