kirkj

My Feedback: (61)

im up to flight 3 with my new bandit ARF, but cant seem to get the landings down as I tend to bounce about 3-4 times per landing. nothing horrific or hard enough to break a flex plate, it just looks ugly. im at full up elevator by the time the mains hit the asphalt so im thinking i may need to add more up elevator travel (?) also im using the Dreamworks pro-link sprung main gear....not sure if that is adding to it or not.

any tips that work for you would help, thanks in advance.

Kirk

Doug Cronkhite

My Feedback: (34)

Check your CG. You could be nose-heavy as well which will make it feel like you're out of elevator travel and also make landing difficult.

I'd also suggest dropping an email to the BVM Reps listed on his website. Guys like Paul Bageman, Harley Condra (who frequents this forum a lot as well) and Kent Nogy can give you A LOT of useful info on flying Bandits..

kirkj

My Feedback: (61)

im at 3/4" behind the dots, but i am landing with alot of fuel on board (P60 with large header tank) im landing with fuel still in the saddle tanks, possibly stay up longer and burn off some more fuel? right now im at 6:30, but i could go to 9 or 10 with no problem i believe.

yeahbaby

My Feedback: (21)

what's the landing attitude of the airplane when you're at full elevator ( nose super high attitude or relatively flat? ) is your throttle at idle or are you finding yourself having to carry more than a few clicks of throttle when you're crossing the runway?

any local bubbas flying bandits? they might be able to watch and provide insight.

good luck

S HARRIS

My Feedback: (6)

sounds like your forcing the landing, be patient, hold the flair,and hold the jet off in ground effect ( approx 1 foot of runway)as long as you can . It will settle nicely, If it bounces hold it off again or it will begin to bounce.hope this helps Scott

Lownverted

My Feedback: (4)

Spoilerons also help out with the deck angle so there is not as much need to round out atthe bottom. Works great on the ones I've flown.

samo

That used to be my problem on the B-ARF. I would always bounce it down the runway. The CG is the first thing you should check. Then, have a slight nose up attitude when coming in and don't be afraid to slow up. The ARF lands A LOT slower than the super composite and balsa bandit's.

Andrew

jetdriver

My Feedback: (1)

would adding some "crow" help this situation?

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Buddy it took me 3-4 flexplate sets to figure out the landing.

1. You will need ALL the up elevator throw you can get
2. Nose heavy doesn't help!
3. Patience!!!

As you turn base with full flaps you should be decending with the wings almost flat but never nose down. This is critical!
If you are decending nose down, throttle back and keep the wings level until the model starts decending and then hold teh decent rate with a little bit of throtle.

Once you are a couple of feet off the ground, make sure that the engine is idle and hold that flare! Again.....hold-that-flare!!!
I use all of my elevator throw to keep the mains from touching. If you flare and it climbs or balloons, you came in too hot, try again.

You will know you flared correctly when the wings sort of wobble a little bit, but not to worry as it will not tip stall, you just need to correct it with some aileron.

Good luck! Once you figure it out you will love how good it lands. I fly out of a 450 ft runway and that is plenty of space for me. The rollout on good landing is basically less than 150ft, with brakes on upon touch down.

rcjet lynch

3/4 is were I have always had mine at. When you say large header tank are you using the kevlar one or the plastic one provided with the kit?

essendon_05

full flare on landing with sufficient airspeed sounds like your nose heavy. Roll aircraft inverted at altitude and if it pitches towards ground= nose heavy. adding more elev deflection is great, but why fight the model. If you use crow and come in too slow with the FWD c of G you will also run out of elevator which will make a mess of your struts and flex plates, hopefully saving your wing cavity around gear. Test your c of G on the bench again, test in air also. i would bet your nosey for sure. Goodluck.

c/f

My Feedback: (1)

This is a good subject, my bet is c/g is too nose heavy as well, landing flares and elevator authority is a good indicator something amiss.

I have a suggestion to all manufactures of jet models to insure people are consistant with how they actually measure in regards to balance. I have made thin gauges stainless plates to sandwich in between each wing and fuse by picking up the strut tubes, at the recommended c/g point I have a raised tab above wing and a hole. then I put a string thru hole and use a cheap plastic pulley above to hoist it up off table an inch or so.

I think OEMs could do this easily with laser cut plywood. This would be a consitant unit of measure to trouble shoot with customers. I doubt any two people could measure c/g and come up with same result using other complex ways. I have even sent mine out to others to test their setup.

I have them for Composite Bobcat, KingCat, Cermark ViperJet.

Second thought if c/g is good, is perhaps not getting the wing planform at a higher angle of attack before ground effect, This is where crow actually helps you as a crutch as it will force it sooner with lift decay. I actually like to use point mixes and make my spoilerons proportional to the throttle channel at variuos points , that way a little throttle will remove some crow so you get a doubling effect. I also have my flaps on the point mix as well so at some point in the throttle advance I go to lifting flaps since I'm most likely in a go around mode, so its all automatic without switch flipping. I do use the switch as Normal is flying, FM 1 is everything for takeoff, FM 2 is everything for landing.

Good luck,

kirkj

My Feedback: (61)

i have the kevlar hoper. and on landing i still have 1/3 in each saddle and a full header. sounds like im a bit nose heavy.

George

My Feedback: (57)

If you are landing with that much fuel, you are definitely too nose heavy. You can easily fly 10 min. with the P-60 and still have plenty of fuel left in the Kevlar hopper (3/4 or more). I had the same exact set-up before putting a bigger engine in. Burn some more fuel and it will land much better. You could fly that combo almost 15 min. You could also remove the hopper altogether if you want to stay with the 6 min. flights and you'll save the weight making the takeoff and first couple minutes better.

Greg Wright

My Feedback: (6)

hey kirkj, a buddy of mine who is a bvm rep has same tank setup as u but has a p-70 he get's about 11 min flights at full throttle the whole flight, that leaves about 1/3 of a tank in hopper. c/g is about 1/2" to 3/4" behind dots it will sit nose high on table with that amount in the tank.[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=regular_smile.gif][sm=regular_smile.gif]

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

WAIT!! WAIT!!

The Bandit is THE. ONLY. JET. THAT. LANDS. like a bandit.

You HAVE to come in nose down with FULL (40 plus degrees) flaps .I also like to add crow, but that does not change the fact that the BARF NEEDS to come in NOSE DOWN.

By keeping the nose down on base to final you will see that you will often have to add throttle to keep it from sinking!!! If you read the "landing technique" in the back of the BVM manual Uncle Bob tells you to keep the nose at 0-1 degree incidence!!! Who can tell 1 degree positive aoa??? I can't.

Keep the nose, AT LEAST, level and if you are not sure, keep the nose down ALL. THE. WAY. TO. THE. TARMAC. Once you have the runway gently pull the nose up and let her bleed off speed to a soft landing.

TRUST ME on this.

Raf

ravill

My Feedback: (11)

Oh and ALL of my BANDITS have had the CG right on the pin hole and I usually land with a full front kevlar tank.

Raf

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Listen to Raf.... I do the same thing with mine and she lands soft and smooooooooooooooooth!!!

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

My $0.02

As has been said, make sure you have a ton of elevator throw, 1 1/8 in. at least. I would say 1 out of 3 landings I had the stick full aft just to flare, so you need that elevator. As for the CG that has been covered.

The thing I will add is the go around. Although I have dorked more than my fair share of landings, the mistake I see most is a hesitancy to execute a go around. If you think about it, you might see one guy on a busy day at a jet rally actually go around, when almost everyone is landing with enough fuel to go around once, twice, even 3 times. That fuel does you no good if you don't use it. If you need to, go around.

In my experience a good landing is made during the set up (downwind, then base, then final). On final, try to aim for a point in the sky, a "keyhole" if you will, that puts your plane at the right speed, altitude and attitude as you fly through the keyhole, at maybe 100 feet off the end of the runway. I have seen more bad landings because a guy tries to horse it in when the approach was wrong. Again, if the set up is not right, it is a b*tch to fix it in the last 5-10 seconds, just go around!

Good luck, bandits are sweet planes, I have had several myself.

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

Kirk,

A lot of good advice here. But Matt nails it with the setup, watch anyone that consistently nails hs landings and that guy has his approach down. Tommy DOdgen told me one time that I could be going 200 MPH 5' above the threshold and if I had the right setup could nail my landings. It all starts on the downwind don't do anything fast to "upset" the airplane and it works out everytime. I suspect CG is the biggest problem you have. So......what happened since the maiden you nailed that one???

DR