Kevin Greene

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Can anyone with Ram 500 experience give me the start parameters that work best for you??? My ECU is an old version (B01M)...I know that the latest version of the Ram 500 ECU is the best but I don't want to invest in a new ECU as I don't know if this turbine is viable yet...I just want to get this turbine started and running before I invest in a new ECU...

THANKS!!! Kevin

lov2flyrc

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Kevin,
I already sent you the Link to Tony's tips, was this not any help??

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

Thanks Todd...I already have Tony's tips but I need more info such as: What glow plug value is best to start with...What start pulse to start with so that you don't wind up with a fire beltching beast...And finally, what gas value to use to get a smooth lightoff...

I'm seeking this info to try to get a good baseline to start this engine...Todd, I thought that you posted a while back (maybe years) a good baseline for easy starts...Maybe I have it confused with someone else...

THANKS!!!

Kevin

lov2flyrc

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Nope.... wasn't me! Never owned a RAM engine

Kevin Greene

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Maybe it was Steven Ellzey....I know he's pretty sharp with Ram engines...Care to chime in Steven???[8D]

Kevin

S_Ellzey

Hi Kevin,

I don’t think I ever put out a set of baseline settings. I really think it varies quite a bit from setup to setup. I would recommend setting the plug and gas to 40 to start with, and the start setting to 90 (I don’t remember the exact name of this one). If you are getting a light off and are trying to tune it here is my approach;

Watch EGT and RPM, you want to see the EGT go over 100 in a few seconds. If you can barely hear the light off and the temp does not come up smoothly and continuously you need to adjust the gas setting to get more gas, for your version of the ECU software I do not remember which way you go, so change it by 5 and see if it gets better. If you hear a roar shortly after light off and the temp jumps several hundred degrees in just a couple of seconds you have too much gas. After the temp goes over 100 the pump will start, continue to watch the EGT and RPM. Again you want to see both rise smoothly until you get to idle. If the EGT peaks while the RPM is still building and then drops, the start setting is too high, and conversely if the RPM hangs for a few seconds it is too low. Once the engine reaches idle look at the pulse width setting to the pump, the start setting should be about 10 – 15 below that.

If you just do not get a light off try holding a BBQ lighter behind the engines exhaust (yes, I am serious). If it still does not light you need more gas, if it does light you need more glow. If you take the plug out of the engine and hold it to the case and try to start the engine you should see it flash for half a second very brightly.

I wish I could give you a guaranteed set of settings, but I do not think they exist. Once you get a good setting you may have to tweak it a few times a year to account for average temperature, the hotter the day the less gas you need for a smooth start.

Hope this helps.

Steven

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

Kevin,

I found some of my old notes for my RAM500. It had B01M software when I got it. Soon I updated it to C03, which provided better starts. The RAM 500 was very tempermental and at times difficult to start. Once they got running they ran fine. Their quality control was poor and no two engines acted exactly the same. It seemed that there were some good ones out there and some bad ones. Additionally sometimes it would start fine for weeks then all of a sudden it wouldn't want to start and you'd have to change some parameters to get it going.

After tweeking mine a bit here are the parameters that worked best on mine before I had the software updated.
LOWRPM=48, HIRPM=150, GLOW=40, ECUBATT=073, RXBATT=062 (set to 050 if using a 4.8V pack), PRIMEPW=150, STARTPW=115, GASADJ=50.

For GLOW a higher number gives more voltage. I used a MC9 plug. If using a Rossi R8 try 50.
For GASADJ the rule of thumb is to use a value 10 less than the ambient temperature. A default value of 50 works pretty good. Once the engine lights off it seems to like a lot of gas to run up. It's best to keep your Powermax bottle connected. After lightoff if the rpms aren't accelerating at a good rate give the trigger a squeeze to give it an extra shot of gas. I had to do this most of the time to get mine started. It was essential in colder ambients.
For STARTPW the value should be about 10 less than your normal idle fuel pump PW. After you get the engine running write down your idle PW so you can adjust it for the next start.

It is essential to have a fully charged ECU battery for good starts. Also make sure your glow plug element is pulled out such that two coils are showing. Updating the software to C03 gave more consistent starts and is worth doing if you are going to keep the engine. Bob Price can upgrade it for you, however your circuit board will also have to be updated by him for it to work. I think he charged about $100 to do both.

PM me with your email address and I'll forward to you a sheet I got from Bob Price that explains some of the parameters and the differences between various software levels.

Good luck,
Joe

Kevin Greene

My Feedback: (85)

What happened to my profile that took away the ability for people to PM and Email me???

THANKS for all of the help!!!

Kevin

1Eye

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You won't see those tags as "yourself" - others see them at the bottom of your post window.

Gordon Mc

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Never mind the behaviour changing form one week or day to another … I found that the behaviour would change from one FLIGHT to another that is done an hour later, and you'd be trying the famous 'left-handed massage' on the propane cannister + a gazillion other tricks includinhg facing Mecca etc. It's the most erratic and least predictable turbine I've ever had the misfortune to own.

As Joe mentions, a fully charged battery helps. The co2 cannister used for propane was also a source of many problems due to the way it affected the temperature of the propane. Many people had improved stars after switching to a Jetcat-style propane cannister, or simply using a hook-up directly to an external propane supply.

Good luck.

Gordon

RCISFUN

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Never had any issues starting my 500 using external propane source

Gene Margiotti

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Kevin,

The best advice for ease of starting and better run times is to have Bob Price update your ECU to the newest version (even if this involves the needed circuit board changes). I had this done and now the start up sequence is consistent and simple.

Gene

Kevin Greene

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Joe....PM sent....THANKS!!!

Kevin

coka

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Hi
Can somebody post a link to Bob Price?
I have a version 3 of software on my Ram. Is there a never one?
Tnx

rjpmodel

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R03B is the latest. If you have R03B I can email you a manual describing all the parameter settings. My # is 512-897-9770
Bob

basimpsn

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Bob Price phone # 512-897-9770

I think the co3/ R03b code are the latest.

basimpsn

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Whoops!! just saw your response Bob.

sidgates

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================================================== ================================================== ===============================
Kevin - You didn't say what gas you are trying to use. When I used Powermax I had a lot of trouble with starts using the orginal thick walled bullet shaped gas container. I had better successs when I changed to a much larger white cased container. Don't know who made it, possibly Jetcat.

I upgraded to CO3 and also switched to Coleman Green Propane using a valve I bought from a company in Canada. With this setup I open the valve one click just as the starter spins up and after it lights (pop) I open 1-2 more clicks to insure acceleration. I have also switched to a 2 cell lipo instead of nicad, this holds constant voltage much better and starts are more consistant with the lipo.

basimpsn

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That post was from 08

rjpmodel

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C03 is old software. R03B is the latest and was a complete re-design of the software as well as hardware upgrades including a new more powerful microprocessor back in August of 2008. R03B also has enhanced tests that can be run from the main menu. I can send the software manual by email if anyone is interested in more details. All the older RAM or Modelbau ECU's can be upgraded to the latest hardware and R03B software.

coka

My Feedback: (4)

Thanks guys.
Bob, thank you for a quick answer, but i live in Europe.
Im just afraid that the phone call would last long time, since we do not have a turbine flyer population and all i know i learned by my self.
My story goes like this.
I purchased a jetcat p 120, and absolutely have no problem with it.
After that, i wanted a smaller turbine.
Since im a aeronautical engineer, i decided to buy ram 500, since i understood that it do take some skill to use them.
I learned very little from my cat. It start every time, runs fine, cools it self....
Ram was another matter. I bought it without batteries and as soon as i conected a 2 s lipo it burned the starter engine.
I carefully changed the speed 300 engine and switched to 2 s life.
I tried to start it few times,but it was completely dead.
I disambled the outer case and saw that glow plug element was not out enough to protrude in to combustion chamber.
As soon as i extracted it little more, i got it to run.
It runed fine, but the problems with reliable start was still present.
After few starts, i had an issue with propane valve.
It worked when gas tank was empty, but when i filled it with gas, it didnt want to open. I exchanged the valve but nothing changed.
At that time, i pulled out the gas tank and complete gas instalation, including the gas valve, and start starting it directly from gas can.
I open a gas only to hear that it flows, and than push the start button.
After hearing that ignition started, i just open a gas little more.
It worked every time.
The main thing to know is that glow plug ignites only at the beggining of start process and it ignites for only one second.
So if you do not have a ignition at the very first moment, it wont start at all.
However, the problems with starter still persisted.
I echanged two speed 300 starter motors and a very few o rings.
Since i own my own hydraulic systems repair shop, i was able to find a high quality viton o ring, wich is still on my engine, lasting over 20 starts .
On many occasions i had problem that when ecu starts the starter motor, the voltage drops and since the voltage drop is detected, ecu aborts the start.
The cure for that was that i spin the motor on hand held unit, and to start the starting sequence, during his spinning.
That routine worked nice but recharging the batteries after every flight was almost a must.
At the end, i instaled a relay wich was driven by ecu starter cable, but i powered the starter by separate 6 v lead acid accu,wich i conect by a jack, while starting.
It worked fine, but i was anoyed by fact that i had to conect the very same battery also during shut down, just to let ecu cool the engine down.
Sadly, i crashed my jet last year, but now ram is being fitted to a new airplane.
Now, here is my question,
Why my propane valve does not work when the gas tank is full?
Is it posible to revork the ecu, so i could switch to 2s lipo?
Can a starting routine be changed so the spining of starter motor start with some kind of soft start?
The last would help with voltage drop and surely help with speed 300 life span.
My ecu is with 03 version.
All sugestion are highly apreciated, since, guys, im all alone here with my turbines.
Thank you

coka

My Feedback: (4)

I just saw your post and you put it while i was writing mine.
My mail is [email protected], so if you can, do send it to me, im very interested.
Tnx

rjpmodel

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First what is your version number. I don't know what 03 version is? 2S LIPO is the best battery to use.

sirrom

My Feedback: (4)

Bob,
What are the white connectors that are on the RAM ECU and where can I buy them?

Patrick

rjpmodel

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Patrick. They are Graupner connectors that I can't get any more. I have a small supply that I use for new ecu's. The Deans ultra connectors work great. I have installed all Deans ultra connectors on the Ecu's I supply to Carlos of RTI for his engines. A lot of customers ask for the Deans Ultra connector on the battery lead of ECU's I repair,upgrade, or sell new. If you only need a few I could supply them to you. Call me at 512-897-9770.
Bob