Removing ignorance towards jets
02-27-2009, 09:11 AM
#26
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
Out of four wrecked jets I have seen (one mine), none caught fire. The moulded tanks (fibreglass or kevlar) split along the seams but the drinks bottle tank remained intact and half full.
I did see a petrol (gasoline) engined model crash and catch fire. I wonder if the turninophobic clubs ban them too? And what about lipos?
I think it would be a good idea to discourage onboard gas, as there is no need and it makes fire more likely.
I notice that the BMFA are discussing a Jet Certificate, akin to the Jet Waiver in the USA. If that comes about, could you use it to persuade your clubmembers to allow jet flying by "Jet certified" pilots?
I did see a petrol (gasoline) engined model crash and catch fire. I wonder if the turninophobic clubs ban them too? And what about lipos?
I think it would be a good idea to discourage onboard gas, as there is no need and it makes fire more likely.
I notice that the BMFA are discussing a Jet Certificate, akin to the Jet Waiver in the USA. If that comes about, could you use it to persuade your clubmembers to allow jet flying by "Jet certified" pilots?
02-27-2009, 10:22 AM
#28
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
ORIGINAL: Slam_Dunc
My local club banned jets a few years ago for a few reasons, some of them due to ignorance.
At Christmas i was voted onto the commitee and my plan was to change the attitude towards turbine powered models. I only started flying jets late last year, so i still have alot to learn, but would like some of your suggestions with how i can bring the members round.
The BMFA have helped a great deal already by issuing a statement about the noise limits (82db at 7m on the ground) not being relevent to turbine models as once in the air the noise disapates alot quick than that of a prop model, due to the frequency of the sound. As my club is very strict on the 82db limit, this ruling should help me.
One of the reasons for the club enforcing the ban was a fear of a fire after a crash, as the surrounding fields are farmers crops. Any damage to these could loose the club the field. A lipo model has about the same risk of causing a fire in a crash as kero powered model, but my suggestion is to not allow jets to fly when there are crops in the field (unfortunately that is most of the summer) i don't think its a necessary rule for turbine flight, but it might be a necessary rule for getting the members to agree to letting them fly
A second rule would be to have no on board gas, as i have been led to believe that on boards gas can cause fire as the result of a arrival. Is there any evidence to suggest how much it lowers the probability?
The third rule could be to only allow members to fly jets if they hold the BMFA 'B' certificate, it's the second test that BMFA members can take to show proficiency and a test they must take if they are to compete at the Nationals or fly on a show line.
The club runs off a well looked after grass strip and while it wouldn't be suitable for scale models it will be great for flying a boomer and the like from. I have also thought of asking Ali (sorry mate not spoken to you about this yet lol) about running a jet day like he did for a club last year, where members can have a go on a buddy lead as i think this is an excellent way of ridding the ignorance towards jets.
What do you think? have i missed anything?
My local club banned jets a few years ago for a few reasons, some of them due to ignorance.
At Christmas i was voted onto the commitee and my plan was to change the attitude towards turbine powered models. I only started flying jets late last year, so i still have alot to learn, but would like some of your suggestions with how i can bring the members round.
The BMFA have helped a great deal already by issuing a statement about the noise limits (82db at 7m on the ground) not being relevent to turbine models as once in the air the noise disapates alot quick than that of a prop model, due to the frequency of the sound. As my club is very strict on the 82db limit, this ruling should help me.
One of the reasons for the club enforcing the ban was a fear of a fire after a crash, as the surrounding fields are farmers crops. Any damage to these could loose the club the field. A lipo model has about the same risk of causing a fire in a crash as kero powered model, but my suggestion is to not allow jets to fly when there are crops in the field (unfortunately that is most of the summer) i don't think its a necessary rule for turbine flight, but it might be a necessary rule for getting the members to agree to letting them fly
A second rule would be to have no on board gas, as i have been led to believe that on boards gas can cause fire as the result of a arrival. Is there any evidence to suggest how much it lowers the probability?
The third rule could be to only allow members to fly jets if they hold the BMFA 'B' certificate, it's the second test that BMFA members can take to show proficiency and a test they must take if they are to compete at the Nationals or fly on a show line.
The club runs off a well looked after grass strip and while it wouldn't be suitable for scale models it will be great for flying a boomer and the like from. I have also thought of asking Ali (sorry mate not spoken to you about this yet lol) about running a jet day like he did for a club last year, where members can have a go on a buddy lead as i think this is an excellent way of ridding the ignorance towards jets.
What do you think? have i missed anything?
never had a issue with that , and we crashed a lot..
we used our own normal thinking rule.
if its very hot and dry and your fields that are directly in path of take off and landing DONT fly easy enough.
in the summer you can to other locations anyways or shows..
what i did like about the uk and geoff wite did this.
check all the models , check radio if set to off or idle.
use common sence.
DB measuring
measure 3 times 1 meter of the ground.
in 180-90-270 degrees at 7 meter distance probe positioned 90 degrees of measuring direction (example dont point micro towards exhaust but 90 degrees to it)
do this at least 100 yards from any building
windspeed MAX 4m/s.
set measurement on meter to pickup slow , otherwise you get peak measurements.
and smart throttle programming also saves some db,s[:-] believe me i am always under the 80 DB rule...
isolate intakes like real size do , use enclosures and double walled pipes.
twin exhaust are noisy!
also the accoustic measurements are different then any measurement ever done.
we used a different spectrum analysis for jet engines.
if all goes ok you WILL have still 86DB.
but as you say in the air you CAN not measure it anymore , a passing car makes more noice.
but the law demands here also the 80DB rule on ground...
so less and less clubs are allowed.
only one jet at a time in the air
co2 on the filed...
inform people living around your field GIVE them phone numbers in case of a complaint (makes then feel listened to)
keep a LOG of people who fly every day or flight.
in case of a "bald eagle guy "you can hunt him down and deal with it.
02-27-2009, 11:04 AM
#29
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,313
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
lol Sandor we don't have the right to bear arms in the UK, so dealing with moaners is slightly harder 
We have exactly the same process for noise testing at our club, The thought of clever tx programming was mentioned when i wanted to fly petrol models there, but with the right setup i was able to get under 82db without cheating, which was a first for the club and since then 2 more 50cc models are being flown.
The setting to idle in failsafe is standard practice for jet events in the UK so mine are always set to this, regardless of it being an event or flying at a club, so that's not a problem.
With the BMFA saying that Turbines aren't regualted by the 82db rule, it's not so much of an issue, although of course i'd do everything i can to keep the noise down so as not to aggrevate the other members
although i thought everyone likes the smell and sound of a jet don't they? those that don't are obviously deaf and dum lol
We have exactly the same process for noise testing at our club, The thought of clever tx programming was mentioned when i wanted to fly petrol models there, but with the right setup i was able to get under 82db without cheating, which was a first for the club and since then 2 more 50cc models are being flown.
The setting to idle in failsafe is standard practice for jet events in the UK so mine are always set to this, regardless of it being an event or flying at a club, so that's not a problem.
With the BMFA saying that Turbines aren't regualted by the 82db rule, it's not so much of an issue, although of course i'd do everything i can to keep the noise down so as not to aggrevate the other members
although i thought everyone likes the smell and sound of a jet don't they? those that don't are obviously deaf and dum lol
02-27-2009, 11:07 AM
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Coventry, Warwickshire, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,313
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
Alasdair
yes the Jet 'C' has been talked about a fair bit, but like all the BMFA cert's they are voluntary and not like the compulsive wavier that they have across the pond. The only part of it that is compulsary as far as the BMFA are concerned is that all pilots flying at the nationals must hold a B cert, the same for shows too isn't it?
yes the Jet 'C' has been talked about a fair bit, but like all the BMFA cert's they are voluntary and not like the compulsive wavier that they have across the pond. The only part of it that is compulsary as far as the BMFA are concerned is that all pilots flying at the nationals must hold a B cert, the same for shows too isn't it?
02-27-2009, 11:18 AM
#31
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Oxford, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,153
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
Hey Sandor,
I assume you are refering to me checking the models and failsafe? If so then a quick clarification, this is done at all JMA Meets, by multiple people, not just me. You just drew the short straw
Geoff.
I assume you are refering to me checking the models and failsafe? If so then a quick clarification, this is done at all JMA Meets, by multiple people, not just me. You just drew the short straw
Geoff.
02-27-2009, 03:59 PM
#32
RE: Removing ignorance towards jets
yes the Jet 'C' has been talked about a fair bit, but like all the BMFA cert's they are voluntary and not like the compulsive wavier that they have across the pond.
A 'jet inspector' checks that the model is airworthy & conformes with the Oz turbine regulations (failsafes etc) & the pilot, once again, must denonstrate he can operate & fly the thing safely. 'Jet Inspectors' can also inspect large models over 7Kg. - John.
