STKNRUD

I was told Haloton1 replaced Halon because of the EPA restrictions. It has the same effect as Halon and is used for fires around sensitive electronic equip for the reasons mentioned...more effective than CO2 and no residual. It is expensive..$80 for a five lb. Since it is much more effective, 5lbs is more than adequate and easier to handle and point. I like to save $ as much as anyone but why penny-pinch with something this important? We spend $$$$$ for radio equiq redundance....

George

1Eye

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Ah yes So many experts, so many opinions . . .

There are many different halon compounds; only a few are used in fire extinguishers. The commonly used extinguishing agents are Halon 1011, Halon 1211, Halon 1202, Halon 1301, and Halon 2402. Halon 1301 is considered the least toxic, but also the least effective of the five for fire suppression.

The US Army Corps of Engineers came up with the numbering system.
First digit = # of carbon (C ) atoms in the molecule;
Second digit = # of fluorine (F);
Third digit = # of chlorine (Cl);
Forth digit = # of bromine (Br); and
Fifth digit = # of iodine (I).
For example Halon 1301 has one carbon atom, three fluoride, no chlorine, one bromine, and no iodine.

The key term associated with Halon is "toxicity" - thankfully since our use would NOT be in a closed area there's not much to worry about. However, in concentrated volumes there are issues:
- Central Nervous System - Inhaling high concentrations of halon gas can cause dizziness, tingling in extremities, and in severe cases, unconsciousness.
- Cardiovascular Effect - Exposure can cause cardiac sensitization. Cardiac sensitization occurs when a chemical causes an increased sensitivity of the heart to adrenaline producing sudden life-threatening, irregular heartbeats and even heart attack, in severe cases.
Irritation of exposed skin and eyes may also result from exposures to Halon.

But here's the kicker: Stratospheric ozone is depleted by halons and other ozone-depleting substances . . . [doh] Bottom line? I'll use CO2 over Halon any day.

Shop around for CO2 - our grand kids will thank you for it.

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

redundant post ...

1Eye

My Feedback: (2)

redundant post ...

Henk Visser

This onboard firextinguisher is also a effective option!

gruntled

so . . . 2 1/2 lbs of Halotron - not enough?

FWIW according to MCMaster-Carr's website a 2.5lb halotron extinguisher gives a 9 second discharge and a 5lb CO2 extinguisher gives an 8 second discharge.

.

KC36330

it's plenty for startups.

gruntled

Thanks. Now I just need to make sure I could get it refilled in my neck of the woods.

STKNRUD

Here are some references so people can read and make their own determination. It should be noted that Haloton1 is deemed a safe and approved agent and used almost to the exclusion of all others on commercial aircraft. Regarding effectiveness of Halontron1 and CO2:

"Although CO2, as an extinguishing agent, is both 'clean' and much cheaper than both Halon or potential Halo replacements (Halontron1), its overall effectiveness on a unit stored volume basis is nowhere near that of Halon.....In addition, it cannot be used on solid material fires and the method of achieving effective discharge on other fires is also more complicated - tube to horn delivery rather nozzle discharge." (www.Skybrary.aero)

http://www.epa.gov/ozone/snap/fire/qa.html
http://www.fire-extinguisher101.com/agents.html
http://www.ilpi.com/safety/extinguishers.html

gruntled

Yeesh - I called around and the Halotron is almost cost-prohibitive to refill. You almost might as well buy a new extinguisher. They said it is $40 /lb for the material itself plus labor plus internal parts. So, that would be at least $100 for a 2.5 lb extinguisher that McMaster Carr sells for under $100.

STKNRUD

Ya...I know. Keep checking. I got one a good bit less expensive from a local company.

There are other choices....one is to use CO2 as it works and lots use it. Another is don't have any hot-start fires.
George

gruntled

I think I will pick-up a 5lb CO2.

furloughed ual

My Feedback: (31)

I would assume that Halotron is for all practical purposes (our jet needs) the same as halon? Meaning safe to use and effective like halon.....

STKNRUD

Yes...see my post about four or five up. It is just as effective and safe for our engines (no residual)...approved by the EPA and used extensively on commercial aircraft. Just do a Google on Halotron or Halotron1. It is more expensive but more effective than CO2 and easier to dispense as it doesn't require the long hose and funnel that CO2 does. CO2 is fine, I just hate hauling around that big bottle, hose and funnel.

George

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

Hey Guys:

Last week and last Friday we were attemping to start a manual start turbine.  We had almost of 10 start attemps, 7 fires inside the model, undre the turbines, below the model, in the thrust tube, etc.

Every time we had a fire, just a squirt of CO2 was enough to extinguish the fire.

So, no matter what anyone post in this thread, my recent experience is that CO2 was very effective and the cylinder was recharged inmediatly and a t a very low cost.

I have not experience with Halon, Halotron, etc. but I know that it was prohibited because it affect the envireonment. I am not going to contribute to affecting environment if I have another environment friendly option like CO2.

And I am also not going to buy cheap halon bottles, and throw away just because I am not going to find where to recharge it.

But: CO2 also harm the environment. Do you know that CO2 is the responsible of the planet warming?

So, which is the worst in terms of environment friendly? Halon, Ozone, planet warming.   CO2, planet warming.

I think that as NFPA and Factory Mutual states, the best way to extinguish a fire i preventin it to hapen.

Why don´t you guys think about Solkaflam?  It replaced the halon.....

STKNRUD

Use whatever you want but at least get the facts. Halotron1 replaced Halon and is NOT prohibited because of its effect on the environment. It is used in commercial aviation everywhere and approved by the EPA

Regarding the environment...we all are entitled to our opinions on that. For me, cleaner is better than a dirty environment BUT.... I can't get too concerned about the type of fire extinguishers a handful of modelers are using when they have a hot start. We drive 100s of miles in our trucks, RVs to the jet events and then burn many gallons of JetA, turbine and smoke oil. Maybe those that are concerned even about the type of hot-start extinguisher they use (even ones approved by the EPA), should give-up jets, drive electric cars to the local park and fly electric foamies. No thanks!

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry.
When I posted "It was prohibited", I was talking about Halon.....My mistake....

gruntled

Won't that sort of logical thinking get you kicked out of commiefornia?

uncleTom

My Feedback: (30)

And CO2 has the added benefit of cooling a hot six pack in just a few seconds. Learned that in the Navy!

STKNRUD

Please report me! I want out...but they won't let me leave until they have taken every dollar I have in taxes. The Wx is great but the rest....yuk! Sometimes I get so mad I don't know whether to spit or wind my watch and then I am reminded that even spitting isn't environmentally friendly.



Now you tell me!...I wasted all that time in the Army drinking warm beer! You really no how to hurt a guy...go Army!

George

hornetd

Halotron or DuPont™ FE-36™ does not smother the fire. It injects an alternative reactant into the combustion process that reacts with the fuel fractions more readily than the available oxidizer. The reaction is endothermic which means it uses up more heat than it produces. As a result it attacks the fuel and; to a lesser degree; heat sides of the fire triangle. CO2 attacks the Oxygen side of the fire triangle and does indeed smother the fire.

So in summary:

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

I realize that this thread has been quiet for quite a while but I thought it best to keep related info together rather than start a new thread.
I've also been considering a Halotron fire extinguisher because as has already been mentioned here it leaves no residue and won't harm
electronics, etc. However I've also read that it is dispensed as a rapidly evaporating liquid. Wouldn't squirting a liquid into a spinning turbine
be a problem? If someone has successfully used a Halotron extinguisher on a turbine fire, how did you apply it? Should it be sprayed on the
ground near the intake so as the liquid evaporates the gas is pulled into the turbine but the liquid isn't directly ingested by the turbine?

Dr Honda

My Feedback: (4)

I have a Halon... and it's expensive to refill. So... I went out and got a CO2.


Anyway... to the OP... I'm not sure why they are expensive... but they are. I picked up both of my extinguisher from ebay. I think I paid $65 for my Halon, and $40 (shipped) for my 20# CO2.

The Halon was new... and the CO2 was used... but certified, and full on delivery.

Justflying1

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Justflying1

If your spotter is standing there on start up with a water, or powder fire extinguisher you would have to have rocks in your head.