u2fast

My Feedback: (37)

now that gyros are allowed at top gun, i have been considering two of them. one for the rudder and the other for the ailerons. i use a jr 10x on 2.4 with two 2400 mah 6v nicads. the gyro on the rudder will be powering one 8611 and the ailerons will power two 8611 servos. it seems that on the jr website, they offer only three gyros and all appear to be for choppers. what is being used out there? thx, barry

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

unless you talk about a heli you should only use gyro in a plane on the strering servo and that is not always nesecery

do a re search about "aileron advers yaw" why it takes place and how you can come out of it.


gyro is not the solution but practise on landings

forgive my bad english
my 2c

u2fast

My Feedback: (37)

landing and flying isnt a problem. i am looking for the precision that a gyro can give for my flight scores. i wish they were not allowed at all. i have never run one on anything. practice will clean up that nose wheel for you too. barry

David Gladwin

JR gyros are PERFECTLY suitable for fixed wing as well as helicopters. Yaw is yaw, uncommanded roll is just that, roll or angular motion, and both can be damped by the use of gyros, really doesn't matter whether is a heli or fixed wing. Adverse aileron yaw can easily be corrected by use of differential aileron and/or mixing rudder to aileron, you don't need a gyro to correct that !

Delgato has totally missed the point, gyros can GREATLY smooth out flight particularly in bumpy conditions, nothing to do with landing practice !! They have transformed my BobCats and both of my Hawks are ultra smooth with gyros on roll operating at low gain.

That said, I have several models with JR gyros on rudder/ns but the best dual channel, single axis gyros, perfect for twin servo aileron installations, are the Futaba GYA351 or ACT Fuzzy Pro. Both have controllable gain and can be used, switchable, in the "hold attitude" mode.

Regards, David Gladwin.

FILE IFR

Barry, Use a Futaba 401. They're the easiest to set up (plane or heli).

I have 5, 401's in my stuff and all work very well.

Bryce Watson

My Feedback: (6)

Speaking of which, where's the helicopter(s)?

Ooops, now I see, forget it.

My bad.

B

causeitflies

After flying my little F16 in choppy winds today, I'm seriously thinking about trying a gyro.

u2fast

My Feedback: (37)

i assume the futaba gyro will work ok with a jr radio? barry

David Gladwin

Absolutely perfectly.

SinCityJets

U2Fast,

The Gyro most used at the world Jet Master is the ACT Fuzzy Gyro. They are made in Germany. While I'm sure the JR Gyros work great, these gyros use an external SMM sensor that is not prone to some external factors such as heat drift. They are expensive, but for now at least, they appear to be the best at what they do. They are a single axis / dual servo gyro.

We sell them on my website.

Chad

jetpilot

My Feedback: (48)

Just bought 3 Futaba 401. easy to setup and use.
Scott

binsonc

My Feedback: (6)

hi berry this is binson get the new futaba 520 , i can help you set it up for rate mode in airplane ,we use heading lock in heli,520 is so small and pricise.call me at 713 878 1753 if you have qustion about gyro as i have used almost every make alredy.servo is importent too. binson

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

goodmorning guys!
ill try to write the best i can so you wont tired by reading me..so heres goes my exuse[8D]

-stering gyro..there are some jets that want to get alot of speed to take off and others that dont.

example a big hawk vs to an f5...small wings heavy some times building ...resolting the use of full throtle and all the runway to take off and wait before you pull up.

becouse of the nature of this jets and the requariement of this high speeds for take off ..one small wind hit on the fin and a small change direction on the nose you can end up with a jet runs towards the spectators... specialy to the hard part when jet pass from your one side to ifrond of you and then to the other that is harder to tell if it goes strait or not than if you looked it from behind..

to this jets i do also use a gyro on the stering .have seen this hapen and is very dangerus to risk a stering with out a gyro...

-aileron gyro..
no promblem in flite ! will make our jets nice!but when it comes to landing what gyro will do?
jets dont have props in the nose..so luck of airflow in low speeds to ailerons elevators rudder..

example:
you need down aileron to the wing that drops to corect it.and gyro can do that for ya!faster and with more precision!
The down aileron on the outboard wing will creat lift (anytime there is lift there is drag)
in slow speed flite(aerobatic/3d=harrier flying jet=landing) the ratio change and drag can be grater than lift!

in resolt the down aileron we gave to lift the wing will drop the wing MORE!
advers yaw! like you reversed your ailerons!

what would be gyros input??????= more aileron to corect..more drag ...get ready for the knife of your life with a jet that lands?

how we come out of this?ailerons hold and rudder input! how much?sorry dont know it depens on aircraft and setiuation..and expirience

input (as we look from behind): rudder to the high wing.

what rudder will do?will change the speed in the air of each wing.

to the wing that go up will cut speed and increase drag to its aileron and drop it

the rule say when one wilng go down the other must come up.

resolt advers yaw saved ,wings level and land..


-rudder gyro
what will hapent if it give whrong rudder input to the above case? barell roll to the deck?


this is my expirience all this years guys.gyros will make flite better but when it comes to landing what they do??they will crash our babys?
barry dont get me whrong i only want your jet one piece man.nothink more or less

David since you fly the big boys from inside your expirience is great and i need your help on this one.
is my explanation corect in the adversyaw setiouation?

im with you..they will help in flite.but every flite comes with a landing!what happens there?


forgive my bad english guys..thanx for your time reading me!

best regars George

siclick33

DelGatoGrande,

What you are talking about is correct but is not adverse yaw it is a stall. Adverse yaw is where the lift of the down going aileron increases the drag and causes YAW in the opposite direction to the turn.

There are 2 ways I can see to prevent the gyro causing problems on landing. The first is to not get so slow that you stall the aircraft. The second, if you are worried about this, is to turn the gyro off for landing.

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

oops..never thought of that![:@] you are corect siclick33 [&o]...off with the gear swich maybe! when gear goes down!?so no extra moves are nesecery!

but i wont take the coming hot option...this may resolt risk entering "bounching mode"..hope you get what i mean

offtopic:...im one of your su spectators by the way!..have you ever wait for your favorite episode in tv and its not there!?..leave the keyboard man and build the baby!

David Gladwin

Sorry Delgato you really have it all mixed up. I have been using ailerons on real and model jets on approach (somtimes in 35 knots of crosswind, in Boeings, no problem ! ) A gyro does it automatically on models , makes the approach smoother. HOWEVER, if you fly the approach very near or at the stall, which is a very unwise thing to do with ANY aeroplane, large or small, you CAN make a wing drop worse by using aileron, Thats why, one reason anyway, we keep a sensible margin ABOVE the stall on the approach. I have just spent a week demonstrating that to Air Cadets in gliders by showing them the result of coarse use of aileron AT the stall: incipient spin, and INSISTING they fly at a safe margin above the stall.

Remember too that ailerons controlled by gyros have limited authority otherwise they "hunt".

No, just add a gyro to aileron and rudder if neccesary and see how much smoother they make things, I doubt I will ever equip another jet without an aileron gyro.

...and PS please don't tell my Hawks about the need for a gyro on rudder, they go straight on t/o without one, ( so does my Starjet and L39 and my Mig 29) although I do give them a little help with rudder and nosweheel steering ! Actually on my BobCats the gyro gain is INCREASED with gear down ! You must also remember that any yaw caused by aileron application is immediately countered by the gyro on the rudder if you are using one.

Its also worth remembering that if a heavily loaded model requires high speed for take off the rudder authority will increase as the SQUARE of the speed which should make it more directionally stable and controllable.

I have four jets with aileron gyros, two Bobcats (which also have rudder gyros) and two Air World Hawks, (aileron ONLY) the result is really smooth flying although to retain normal aileron sensitivity you do have to increase aileron travel by an amount equal to the gyro travel authority UNLESS you have stick priority.

We did quite an extensive article in RCJI about 18 months ago on gyro theory and practice, its all there !

Here a picture of a gyro in action!

Regards,

David.

BIGBARPER

Dave Hi

Interested to hear that you are very pleased with a gyro on the bobcat, I am just finishing my BC off and have been considering using one, please could you say which surface(s) you stabilised and what the benifits were, I have noticed some BC's fish tail slightly in a turn, possibly PIO, Jason Fletcher's BC however seems rock steady and seem to remember he said he does not use a gyro....

thanks

Phil.

Jgwright

Delagto

The adverse yaw point is not right. My Horten was much better with an gyro fitted than without and the plane is VERY sensitive to adverse yaw. I have fitted ACT gyros on ailerons on most of my models especially if they are slightly unstable or difficult to fly. The Gyro has a definite beneficial effect especially on takeoff and landing. It is important to have variable gain that you can adjust in flight, as flying aerobatics will require less gyro than smooth gentle turns. We have found the gyro almost on full on descent to the runway helps the pilot in keeping the wings very steady and less affected by gusts of wind. We also have a gyro on the Swallow and that is a lovely smooth plane to fly as a result.

The only time we had a really noticeable wag was when we flew the little Huckebein when we selected full gyro rather than flaps on the downwind leg preparing for landing. The plane wagged noticeably and we immediately realised what had happened and corrected the mistake.

John

David Gladwin

My BobCats are the early model with flat plate speed brakes on the gear legs which cause directional instabilty. The latest ARTF Bobcats dont use these (as far as I know) as they have flaps.

Aileron gyros should make things even smoother particularly in rough air. Regards, David.

davo580

I do beleive that gyros help but if in comps dosn't it make it unfair on pilots that don't use them because they can't aford them because they spent all of their hard earned dollars to get to comps and fly jets

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

i have no such an instroment warn me about stall or wind speed around my wing for the 2sec my landings last.
im also not so good yet to "see" this warnings.spesialy when i fly all the time deferent airframes.but i do have "warm fingers" from 3d i fly..

i do fly in the same density of cm3 air like the full scale ones.
my wings are smaller tho..
often its gusty windy for me when is calm day for a full scale..

and a saten wind can cut me speed and give me altitute and then give me calm inviroment cose me to stole or to bounch ..

and im not against gyros or Barrys flite impruvment.

dont care about the good case
im worry about the bad %ones..only one is good for serius$$$$$ loss

so one last simple question:

lets say i stall (im not remember well but i think hapens to me once a year at least )
and ailerons act reverse.will the aileron gyro make this go away or not?





David John and rest thank you for taking the time explane me.
this conversations will only make good to our hobby and its good we keep it "healthy"

take care guys[8D]

FILE IFR

No. The ailerons need to be neutralized in preparation for equal lift of each wing panel. When a wing is dropped during stall, the aileron gyro will not go to neutral. The rudder is the most effective control surface during stall/low speeds so you must 'level' the wings with rudder imput.

... In other words, try not to stall the wings.

siclick33

Rudder isn't strictly needed to unstall the low wing and can make things worse. Use of rudder is a bit of a 'cheat' as my understanding is that you are using it to increase the speed over the wing to above the stall speed. Using lots of rudder near the stall can have catastrophic side effects (i.e a Spin) from which you may not recover if near to the ground.

DelGatoGrande is correct in his understanding of the effect of a gyro following a stall that causes a wing drop, however you shouldn't cut your margins so tight that this is a factor. If this does occur at height, you can still unstall the wings by reducing the angle of attack (even with full aileron) but it might take a bit longer to recover. As soon as the wing is unstalled then the gyro will immediately start helping again.

FWIW, I am going to install a gyro on my next model.

Sorry, I will get back to the SU27 now

p.s. This is only a factor if you have a wing drop at the stall which isn't always the case.

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

Hi George:

Gyros in Jets was discussed i this thread:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_82...tm.htm#8427324

All about gyros was discussed here.

Guillermo

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

well sed Mike! ..siclick33 r u web surfing again?what i told you

..thanx Guillermo u where on my mind....was searching about that!

.... 7:20 to 7:28

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2Z0sUHfeRU

my ailerons go crazy/normal and reverse /heading and wing leveling with instand rudder inputs to drop also the wing end up high.

gyro in rudder or aileron would chrash my pipe...by the way Ali heres is the bipe i got from you[8D]

jets get that slow for landing?they are heavy and have smaler wings?

bottom line i stop here .. and i paste part of the last post of Aero65 from Guillermos link


I know that some people will say that you shouldn't need that kind of stuff if your good enough to fly turbines, and while true you should not need that stuff it might help save some people from busted expensive airplanes from the occasional dumb thumb. After all it's all a personal choice, so if you think is cool get it. If you want to beat your chest and say your a man and you don’t need them, go ahead. It's a hobby have fun, for me I like the gadgets and the techie stuff.

peace