Another Skymaster Viper
08-20-2009, 12:46 PM
#101
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
I will also be giving the wings this treatment as I HATE to hook up wires and hoses when installing my wings....
With this set-up I just slide the wings home and put in the lock bolt. 5 seconds to install a panel at the field. Easy Peasy! Some might ask about air leaks...this system is rock solid!
With this set-up I just slide the wings home and put in the lock bolt. 5 seconds to install a panel at the field. Easy Peasy! Some might ask about air leaks...this system is rock solid!
08-20-2009, 12:49 PM
#102
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Ali
Craig has a point with the hinges, but to be honest I think even Robarts will flex. The problem is the un supported area of hinge between the trailing edge of the fin and the radius of the leading edge of the rudder. We put balsa blocks or even build a seat of hysol to support the hinge and eliminate the movement. But to be honest we have never had a hinge fail even on the un supported ones.
Hope this helps, and enjoy your great new toy! and for me what must be one of, if not the best all rounder available on the market today!
Regards Al
Craig has a point with the hinges, but to be honest I think even Robarts will flex. The problem is the un supported area of hinge between the trailing edge of the fin and the radius of the leading edge of the rudder. We put balsa blocks or even build a seat of hysol to support the hinge and eliminate the movement. But to be honest we have never had a hinge fail even on the un supported ones.
Hope this helps, and enjoy your great new toy! and for me what must be one of, if not the best all rounder available on the market today!
Regards Al
Also agree on the flying qualities. Very smooth and honest. Great presence in the air.
Craig
08-20-2009, 12:57 PM
#103
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Great photos Craig. They show exactly what I was trying to explain. Really glad to hear you are liking the way it flies.. had a feeling you would 
With you all the way Inbound. I hate hooking up 5 connections each time. Nothing beats sliding a pair of wings on, one bolt per side and away you go!
With you all the way Inbound. I hate hooking up 5 connections each time. Nothing beats sliding a pair of wings on, one bolt per side and away you go!
08-20-2009, 02:08 PM
#104
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Hi All
I am also building a viperjet and here is a link ( http://www.rc-unionen.dk/nytforum/to...44&whichpage=2 ) to some of my building pictures.
John Madsen
I am also building a viperjet and here is a link ( http://www.rc-unionen.dk/nytforum/to...44&whichpage=2 ) to some of my building pictures.
John Madsen
08-21-2009, 01:37 AM
#106
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
I have been working hard, just not enough on my VJ. However, maybe I should slow down a bit and let you guys all lead the way! I too was a bit worried about the rudder hinges, but installed as per the "manual" I decided to install the servos in the fuse side of things for the rudder and elevators. I did add material for glueing of the horns in the rudder and elevators. The flaps and ailerons seemed okay with a good hard balsa at each location. The little bit of horn that was exposed inside the leading edge was glued over with V-poxy.
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The "L" brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the "go fly" deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The "L" brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the "go fly" deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
08-23-2009, 04:38 PM
#108
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
dashboard mod that I have made try stock epoxied just below screen and lite ply dash cut to fit I made a templet out of A4 laid on top outside of screen then traced around photoes may explain
08-23-2009, 08:29 PM
#111
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Matt Chapman
I have been working hard, just not enough on my VJ. However, maybe I should slow down a bit and let you guys all lead the way! I too was a bit worried about the rudder hinges, but installed as per the ''manual'' I decided to install the servos in the fuse side of things for the rudder and elevators. I did add material for glueing of the horns in the rudder and elevators. The flaps and ailerons seemed okay with a good hard balsa at each location. The little bit of horn that was exposed inside the leading edge was glued over with V-poxy.
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The ''L'' brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the ''go fly'' deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
I have been working hard, just not enough on my VJ. However, maybe I should slow down a bit and let you guys all lead the way! I too was a bit worried about the rudder hinges, but installed as per the ''manual'' I decided to install the servos in the fuse side of things for the rudder and elevators. I did add material for glueing of the horns in the rudder and elevators. The flaps and ailerons seemed okay with a good hard balsa at each location. The little bit of horn that was exposed inside the leading edge was glued over with V-poxy.
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The ''L'' brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the ''go fly'' deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
Matt - this is full of good tips...http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_83..._1/key_/tm.htm
Its a SWEET JET - enjoy it! You do not need the bypass by the way.
08-25-2009, 04:47 AM
#113
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Ali
I feel a military scheme Viper coming next!
I feel a military scheme Viper coming next!
I want a Playboy Bunny Scheme ... Black and white, but not a Military Playboy Bunny like the F-4
08-27-2009, 03:01 PM
#114
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Help, on my very first flight with my SM Viper, about the 4th. lap around the field, at level and 1/2 power, half my fin and all my rudder blew off. was able to land ok,(no damage) servo was a 8711, metal arm and a pro-link. Control horn was SM supplyed. I know others have had the same issue. Question is getting a replacement. how long, does SM have any apare parts ? would love to fly again be snow flys.
08-27-2009, 03:10 PM
#115
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: snobird
Help, on my very first flight with my SM Viper, about the 4th. lap around the field, at level and 1/2 power, half my fin and all my rudder blew off. was able to land ok,(no damage) servo was a 8711, metal arm and a pro-link. Control horn was SM supplyed. I know others have had the same issue. Question is getting a replacement. how long, does SM have any apare parts ? would love to fly again be snow flys.
Help, on my very first flight with my SM Viper, about the 4th. lap around the field, at level and 1/2 power, half my fin and all my rudder blew off. was able to land ok,(no damage) servo was a 8711, metal arm and a pro-link. Control horn was SM supplyed. I know others have had the same issue. Question is getting a replacement. how long, does SM have any apare parts ? would love to fly again be snow flys.
08-27-2009, 04:41 PM
#116
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: snobird
Help, on my very first flight with my SM Viper, about the 4th. lap around the field, at level and 1/2 power, half my fin and all my rudder blew off. was able to land ok,(no damage) servo was a 8711, metal arm and a pro-link. Control horn was SM supplyed. I know others have had the same issue. Question is getting a replacement. how long, does SM have any apare parts ? would love to fly again be snow flys.
Help, on my very first flight with my SM Viper, about the 4th. lap around the field, at level and 1/2 power, half my fin and all my rudder blew off. was able to land ok,(no damage) servo was a 8711, metal arm and a pro-link. Control horn was SM supplyed. I know others have had the same issue. Question is getting a replacement. how long, does SM have any apare parts ? would love to fly again be snow flys.
Sorry to hear about your problems. Almost certainly they were caused by flutter due to hinging or control horn issues. Did you use the supplied hinges and install them per the manual? If so, you are the latest to suffer this fate. Supposedly later production VJ's have improved hard points but I agree with jclittle that you would be wise to incorporate the mods suggested in this thread when you get your new fin and rudder.
My latest Viper issue is a persistent leak in the brake system that I finally traced to the smaller SM supplied air tanks. I used both small tanks, T'd together and BOTH have leaks in the caps. The leaks, in both, cause pressure to drop fairly quickly to around 60psi and then almost stop. Needless to say, they are both in the trash can and replaced with real r/c hardware (Robarts). So far the big tank is holding air but I think I will replace it anyway.
Craig
08-28-2009, 02:18 AM
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: hvnmodels
Yo Ali
I'm working on my viper and I'm adding somes detail parts to plane and NO you can't have the parts if I crash it
Yo Ali
I'm working on my viper and I'm adding somes detail parts to plane and NO you can't have the parts if I crash it
: DHans
08-28-2009, 06:19 AM
#119
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Matt Chapman
I have been working hard, just not enough on my VJ. However, maybe I should slow down a bit and let you guys all lead the way! I too was a bit worried about the rudder hinges, but installed as per the ''manual'' I decided to install the servos in the fuse side of things for the rudder and elevators. I did add material for glueing of the horns in the rudder and elevators. The flaps and ailerons seemed okay with a good hard balsa at each location. The little bit of horn that was exposed inside the leading edge was glued over with V-poxy.
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The ''L'' brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the ''go fly'' deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
I have been working hard, just not enough on my VJ. However, maybe I should slow down a bit and let you guys all lead the way! I too was a bit worried about the rudder hinges, but installed as per the ''manual'' I decided to install the servos in the fuse side of things for the rudder and elevators. I did add material for glueing of the horns in the rudder and elevators. The flaps and ailerons seemed okay with a good hard balsa at each location. The little bit of horn that was exposed inside the leading edge was glued over with V-poxy.
I had a small problem with the flap and aileron servo instal. The ''L'' brackets suplied were tapped for larger screws than supplied and were to small for installing the Futaba servos. I made up a new set to make for a better fit and better screw location on the woood hardpiont.
As for air, I have ordered two large Robart tanks for the gear/doors. I'll use one large (supplied) tank for the brakes. I'm using the multi function valve that came with the ''go fly'' deal from BVM. Looks simple enough... but havent turned it on yet or attempted any set up. Any words of advice on the unit yet? I'll run a seprate servo/valve for the nose gear door as I would like the main doors to cycle shut after gear extention. Again, any thoughts on that one?
My P-160 is here as of today. Any advice on wheather or not to run the turbine by-pass? I have been told it runs better without it. The one that came with the kit is rather cheap and flimsy. Again, advice is accepted!
Being my first jet, I'm open to any/all ideas. I have found however that a lot of guys go overboard with what I should do. (ie... spend a ton more money than I planned on spending for all top level stuff) and I just want a good, safe, easy jet to ease me into the concept of burning Jet-A over gas and encourage me to stay involved. As a basic plan, i think the Viper looks good so far.
I'll get some pix of mine posted here soon to help suppot this awsome thread.
Off to the hangar (shop) in the morning to do more work on it and get started on the air system! No pressure there! (get it?)
Fly safe!
Matt
Matt check out post #114 from Snobird, you may want to modify your rudder build...
08-28-2009, 09:45 AM
#120
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: hvnmodels
Yo Ali
I'm working on my viper and I'm adding somes detail parts to plane and NO you can't have the parts if I crash it
Yo Ali
I'm working on my viper and I'm adding somes detail parts to plane and NO you can't have the parts if I crash it
08-28-2009, 11:11 AM
#121
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
WOW! Forget working on my rudder.... I want to start working on a set of speed brakes! VERY COOL!
Any ideas out there at to how to re-enforce the canopy windshields? Would a bead of Vpoxy do it... or is a layer of thin glass needed?
Regarding the rudder; hinging and what asside, any thoughts as to whether the rudder should hae some weight added to balance it some? That was mentioned for the ailerons I think for the bigger engines.
And..... by-pass or no by-pass? I'm getting about a 50/50 split on this one.
Should have my air system up and running by Saturday (Robart tanks, fill valves and quick disconnects.... BVM pressure gauge)
Matt
Any ideas out there at to how to re-enforce the canopy windshields? Would a bead of Vpoxy do it... or is a layer of thin glass needed?
Regarding the rudder; hinging and what asside, any thoughts as to whether the rudder should hae some weight added to balance it some? That was mentioned for the ailerons I think for the bigger engines.
And..... by-pass or no by-pass? I'm getting about a 50/50 split on this one.
Should have my air system up and running by Saturday (Robart tanks, fill valves and quick disconnects.... BVM pressure gauge)
Matt
08-28-2009, 12:17 PM
#122
RE: Another Skymaster Viper
ORIGINAL: Matt Chapman
Any ideas out there at to how to re-enforce the canopy windshields? Would a bead of Vpoxy do it... or is a layer of thin glass needed?
Regarding the rudder; hinging and what asside, any thoughts as to whether the rudder should hae some weight added to balance it some? That was mentioned for the ailerons I think for the bigger engines.
And..... by-pass or no by-pass? I'm getting about a 50/50 split on this one.
Matt
Any ideas out there at to how to re-enforce the canopy windshields? Would a bead of Vpoxy do it... or is a layer of thin glass needed?
Regarding the rudder; hinging and what asside, any thoughts as to whether the rudder should hae some weight added to balance it some? That was mentioned for the ailerons I think for the bigger engines.
And..... by-pass or no by-pass? I'm getting about a 50/50 split on this one.
Matt
I'm sure some balance weight on the rudder would help but I'm not sure it will prevent what happened to Snobird and others if no other modifications are made. With the modifications, rudder balance weight is not necessary. No balance weight on my ailerons either and no problems.
No need for a bypass in my opinion. Plenty of power and cooling air so what is the advantage to offset the weight and complexity?
Craig
08-29-2009, 10:02 AM
#123
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
here are some pictures of the rudder off my Viper, note lower hingpoits broken at the pin. upper one pulled from the fin.. also note the control horn is snaped off. not trying to place blame,just warning current owners of the issue..
08-29-2009, 11:18 PM
#124
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
in looking at the photos of your rudder, I have a thought about a possible problem. While I agree the overall design and supplied hardware may have issues, as well as the "instruction manual" leaving quite a bit to our imagination. I'm not expert, and this is my first jet, but I have done many scale birds and a few Comp-AFR type planes with similar hinging styles.
Something to look at here is the hinge only being inserted to the leading edge of the rudder. This will creat a side to side movement of the rudder when in place in the fin. The fins trailing edge will then binde as the rudder is deflected left and right and maybe cause failure.
Properly inserted hinges in this style control will have the hinge pin in line with the center of rotation of the rudder leading edge. On the Viper, this is about half an inch at the bottom hing... you"ll need to recess the rudders leading edge some with a slot to allow the rudder to pivot around the hinge.
I have attached a couple pix I took with my phone and while not great, you may get the idea of what I'm trying to explain.... although not too well. Sorry! The one photo shows that slot, or recess I filed in the leading edg to allow the rudder to rotate around the hinge. The second pix shows the center of rotation of the rudder hinge piont at the bottom of the rudder. I have marked it with a dot on the tape. As you can see,as the rudder moves left or right, the center dot id in the middle of that rotation. Thats the same place your hinge pin should be set back within the rudders leading edge. With hinges n your location, that center moves left and right... not around itself.
Again, not an expert, but just throwing in my 2c. With the plane safe on the ground and a new fin/rudder on it's way soon I hope, yu may want to research my basic idea. I spent some time thinking about this when I was hinging and even called down to BVM to get input.
I hope this helps and doenst offend. If anyone has more to ad or other thoughts, let me know. These things are too expensive to bust up with so much experiance out there!
Matt
Something to look at here is the hinge only being inserted to the leading edge of the rudder. This will creat a side to side movement of the rudder when in place in the fin. The fins trailing edge will then binde as the rudder is deflected left and right and maybe cause failure.
Properly inserted hinges in this style control will have the hinge pin in line with the center of rotation of the rudder leading edge. On the Viper, this is about half an inch at the bottom hing... you"ll need to recess the rudders leading edge some with a slot to allow the rudder to pivot around the hinge.
I have attached a couple pix I took with my phone and while not great, you may get the idea of what I'm trying to explain.... although not too well. Sorry! The one photo shows that slot, or recess I filed in the leading edg to allow the rudder to rotate around the hinge. The second pix shows the center of rotation of the rudder hinge piont at the bottom of the rudder. I have marked it with a dot on the tape. As you can see,as the rudder moves left or right, the center dot id in the middle of that rotation. Thats the same place your hinge pin should be set back within the rudders leading edge. With hinges n your location, that center moves left and right... not around itself.
Again, not an expert, but just throwing in my 2c. With the plane safe on the ground and a new fin/rudder on it's way soon I hope, yu may want to research my basic idea. I spent some time thinking about this when I was hinging and even called down to BVM to get input.
I hope this helps and doenst offend. If anyone has more to ad or other thoughts, let me know. These things are too expensive to bust up with so much experiance out there!
Matt
08-30-2009, 02:34 AM
#125
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RE: Another Skymaster Viper
Hi Matt,
You are 100% correct. We have found that some glue the pin hinge sticking far out of the LE and TE. You need to cut away the hinge sealing gap so the rudder can be glued closer to the fin post. there should be no play side to side on pin hinges. The whole hinge must be supported by glue. Cutting slots in rudder will do the trick.
Thanks for posting Matt. I will add this in manual.
Remember flutter will bend steel. There is no structure strong enough when flutter starts.
Regards
Morne
You are 100% correct. We have found that some glue the pin hinge sticking far out of the LE and TE. You need to cut away the hinge sealing gap so the rudder can be glued closer to the fin post. there should be no play side to side on pin hinges. The whole hinge must be supported by glue. Cutting slots in rudder will do the trick.
Thanks for posting Matt. I will add this in manual.
Remember flutter will bend steel. There is no structure strong enough when flutter starts.
Regards
Morne