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Another Skymaster Viper

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Old 08-03-2010, 03:21 AM
  #1476
Jim Cattanach
 
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Duncan

I can see where you are coming from, but i wouldn't say most of the problems. There have been quite a few pilot/builders errors causing failures too and you can't expect the factory to take responsibility for someone old boy'ing it in.

As for building, you would expect anyone putting a jet together to have learnt through years of modelling the way they like to do things, so it's not guessing, but using their years of experience to judge how they think it should be. To be able to decide where a servo should be may need a basic understanding of forces a model goes through in flight, but if someone hasn't got a basic understanding of the principles of flight, then should they be flying a jet or indeed any model in the first place?


lol Alessandro, i'm still learning all the time mate, it never stops and i can get it wrong
Yes, I agree with you, but the more idiot proof you make the kit, the better. My post was merely to comment that is odd for an ARF not to make provision for servos. On my first Viper build I placed the sevos in the fuz, mainly because I had no need to remove the rudder or stabs.
I recently bought another & will start the build soon. I really like the large Viper. It flys very well & lands easily. I lost my first one when it hit some HT power lines.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:29 AM
  #1477
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: OttoKranz

I forgot to say that I also put a long piece of balsa, 5 mm thick, glued on the fin behind the rudder because the rudder didn't go to touch the fin and the hinges remained out of the fin for almost 5 mm.
I think that nobody will understand what I said and I don't have pictures....

Alessandro

I understand what you mean, no need for pics the brass tube i hysol'd onto the hinges, did the same thing as the balse you used.

Jascat,

yep i agree i love my big viper, it's a lovely model and i'm quite tempted to get a 2m at some point. I had seen the video of your crash, it's never nice to see a model go in, no matter what the cause, glad you have a replacement all sorted

Duncan
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:32 AM
  #1478
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Do you have a link to that video? I never saw it.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:35 AM
  #1479
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Duncan

I understand what you mean, no need for pics the brass tube i hysol'd onto the hinges, did the same thing as the balse you used.
mmm... now I understand how and why you used the brass tube...

A
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:40 AM
  #1480
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Jascat, I remember also about a friend of yours that lost the Viper at the maiden flight, isn't it? Did you discover the problem?

Ciao
A
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:41 AM
  #1481
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

I must have my wires crossed again, i thought you had posted a video of it. Was it of the 2m ?
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:45 AM
  #1482
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Duncan

Thanks for the pictures.
i made some pictures of my fin and rudder. There are already 4 hinges inside, and it seems, they are already glued in into the rudder.
Looks like robart, but isn't robart.
Are your hinges glued in too and how did you removed them ?
Another point is, the balsa block inside looks stable,.... but there is nearly no glue around
I think i have to invest a lot of time to stabilize fin and rudder.

attached some pictures

Kind regards



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Old 08-03-2010, 03:49 AM
  #1483
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


[quote]ORIGINAL: OttoKranz

I think SM should pay you for all this e-learning lessons
You are right again Duncan (it's becoming boring ah ah ah) I had to put two blocks of balsa inside the fin and two hard wood rod in the rudder. I think that now my two hinges are more solid than the three SM because, as you see from the pictures of Nicolò, the SM balsa blocks inside the fin are not so secure....[&:]

Ciao
A
[/quote

Hi Alessandro

"..I had to put two blocks of balsa inside the fin and two hard wood rod in the rudder..."
Sorry,.. but how did you do that ?Did you open/divide the fin and/or the rudder

Kind regards
Rainer

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Old 08-03-2010, 03:52 AM
  #1484
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: OttoKranz

Jascat, I remember also about a friend of yours that lost the Viper at the maiden flight, isn't it? Did you discover the problem?

Ciao
A
Yes, Denny Rowland lost his on the maiden flight. I arrived at the site about ten minutes after the crash, so I don't really know the facts. He said he was turning upwind to land & it dropped a wing & went in. Others I spoke to thought he was going too slow & it stalled. They are not easy to stall, so he must have been flying really slow.

Duncan. I found I preferred the large Viper over the small version, especially the landings (although the small one is fine). I lost the small one when one of the main gears refused to come down. I climbed high & tried a couple of loops to free the jammed gear. Unfortunately on the second loop, it snapped & went into a flatish spiral dive. No matter what I tried, I had no effect on the spin.
Both Vipers were lost on the same day. Should have stayed at home that day.
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:56 AM
  #1485
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Rainer

You are lucky in the fact that when i got my viper, it was up to the builder to fit the hinges in the rudder. Measuring how deep each hinge had to be sunk and getting it right, took a fair amount of time.

The part of hinge that goes into the fin, is the part i hysol'd the brass tube onto. The brass supports the part of the hinge that is left in the open, giving strength to the unsupported area.

Duncan
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:01 AM
  #1486
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Duncan

Yes,... they looks straight aligned if i move all to one side, but nobody knows what is behind

In the meantime i read the User Manual and i found following recommendation:

"...We recommend to mass balance each elevator with 45 grams of lead in the balance tabs...."

Has anybody done that and how ?

Kind regards
Rainer

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Old 08-03-2010, 04:13 AM
  #1487
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

The Viper´s Manual.... hmmm..... I think this paper booklet is useless... to build this plane the right way... I am building my viper, and everything that I read on that manual does not manke any sense... I have put all servos inside the surfaces on elevator goes inside the stab, not the way the manual says half in the fuselage and half in the stab, so as the rudder servo, it is no easy to do it right but it is a big advange, now surfaces become easily removable... on the inside talking about where the receiver goes, ecu etc... that all has to be reorganized and tables need to be made in order to put things on its place... Again, this plane is for the experienced modeler, arf....hmmmm that "Almost" part of the ARF meaning is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar away from being almost.... it is a FARF (Far Away Ready to Fly)
just my opinion...
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:17 AM
  #1488
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

FART lol i like it !! The manual is useless but as you say it's for an experienced builder. Be carefull where you mount the radio as the cockpits won't fit if you're not careful with the installation.

Rainer i don't know of anyone that mass balanced the elevators, so i didn't either
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Old 08-03-2010, 04:28 AM
  #1489
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi

"... this plane is for experienced builders..."

Yes,...i aggree. I have experience in building several models. But this is my first Jet
Therefore i use my experience, not to believe everything in the manual, but read instead of in different forums to find out the weak points and optimize them, and if everything goes well, i will reduce the amount of problems later on

Kind regards
Rainer


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Old 08-03-2010, 04:41 AM
  #1490
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Duncan, Thanks for sharing with your pictures, I have a folder on my computer with avery picture that I have found on this forum, and they are super helpful! that folder is my manual... haha.... I am located in Panama, and no Vipers around the area... so even more complicated...

Ramses; I am sure you will do great building this plane, it just needs more time than the regular ARF plane does... BTW I use to live in Switzerland years ago, in Lugano... use to fly Gliders from GRAUPNER... I am still tryng to find that GRAUPNER Glider I use to fly, it was called PILOT... made in late 80´s... super good flyer!
Hvae fun building your viper...

Regards
Tony
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:45 AM
  #1491
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RamsesCH
Hi Alessandro

''..I had to put two blocks of balsa inside the fin and two hard wood rod in the rudder...''
Sorry,.. but how did you do that ? Did you open/divide the fin and/or the rudder

Kind regards
Rainer
No, I've done square holes on the fin and round on the rudder. I installed balsa blocks in the fin until they reached the balsa "wall" inside the fin. I've done a scheme of it (it's better and faster ) but let me know if you need more informations.

Ciao
Alessandro
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:45 AM
  #1492
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hello RamsesCH

I also had put the servant (jr8711) in the fuselage, I think it should be reasons why the empty part of the rudder in my opinion creates turbulence that caused my break ...
Ciao Nico
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:54 AM
  #1493
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hello Duncan
you're right, but I can not know that lousy job was done in a rudder that I sold closed, so I trust MS .......
There are many years flying with the jet models, and I have fallen years ago for my mistakes, but now it is a stupid mistake constructive

Ciao Nico
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:18 AM
  #1494
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I apologize to all ... (you too Alessandro detto OTTOKRANZ) for my primitive English
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:54 AM
  #1495
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Quote:
ORIGINAL: nicocarlucci

I apologize to all ... (you too Alessandro detto OTTOKRANZ[img][/img]) for my primitive English[img][/img]
I forgive you this time but improve yourself and don't copy from the translator online!
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:21 AM
  #1496
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

qualcosa si muove!!!!
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:29 AM
  #1497
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Ciao Christian
Qualcosa sembra muoversi ma a mio parere è solo uno stratagemma per prendere tempo....
appena ho buone nuove ti scrivo,per ora mandare il direzionale in Cina mi è costato altri 117 €
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:07 AM
  #1498
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Just to let you guys know, the first flight (finally ) went quite uneventful.

Stock landing-gear and wing-tube. One gear-leg did not come in completely before the door shut, so I flew with gear down most of the flight.

A bit of crosswind, but no problems. Stayed a bit high for the first flight though

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAVRah5_Iuo[/youtube]

Engine (p200sx) makes a lot of noise during acceleration, so maybe I'll have to experiment a bit with pipe/turbine distance.

But in all, a nice flyer!

Hans
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:15 AM
  #1499
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Congrats Hans, they sure are nice birds, must be pretty ballistic with the 200!
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:37 AM
  #1500
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Very very nice Hans! In HD the video is almost perfect. Perhaps the operator should improve a little bit himself

Ciao
Alessandro
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