1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
02-10-2010, 08:15 AM
#627
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
ORIGINAL: olnico
Hi Thomas,
I've checked your web site and it looks pretty good.
The technical description of the project looks really good as well. I think that you could insist more on the fact that the wings ( carbon fiber torsion box ) as well as the swept wing mechanism are designed to be extremely torsion resistant.
This is THE key point in getting the swept wing right. I am sure that you've seen the video of the FEJ F-14 tucking heavily in the turn and almost crashing. This is due to the fact that this plane has the swept wing mechanism driven by a plate system. Adding the fact that the wing is not enough torsion resistant and you get about +- 1/7 '' incidence play at the trailing edge that gets the plane tuck down in the turn.
Also be careful with your aluminium NACA inlets. From what I can see on the picture, there is some gap between the inlet and the offset plating that goes above it. That gap has to be filled and waxed generously before moulding or you will have a very hard time to demould the plug. As a general rule, try to make the plug as sleek as possible or you'll end up with a problematic demoulding job( ie: make sure that all the gaps are filed, that the concave details are demouldable, that the offset joints are sealed... )
Also make the first or second part out of the mould super thick, so that it can be used as a second plug. You're first wood plug is probably going to die in the demoulding process given the complexity of the project and of the detailing.
Good luck for the continuation and keep the nice pictures coming...
By the way, if you need some help on the full flying elevator geometry, my offer still stands...
Hi Thomas,
I've checked your web site and it looks pretty good.
The technical description of the project looks really good as well. I think that you could insist more on the fact that the wings ( carbon fiber torsion box ) as well as the swept wing mechanism are designed to be extremely torsion resistant.
This is THE key point in getting the swept wing right. I am sure that you've seen the video of the FEJ F-14 tucking heavily in the turn and almost crashing. This is due to the fact that this plane has the swept wing mechanism driven by a plate system. Adding the fact that the wing is not enough torsion resistant and you get about +- 1/7 '' incidence play at the trailing edge that gets the plane tuck down in the turn.
Also be careful with your aluminium NACA inlets. From what I can see on the picture, there is some gap between the inlet and the offset plating that goes above it. That gap has to be filled and waxed generously before moulding or you will have a very hard time to demould the plug. As a general rule, try to make the plug as sleek as possible or you'll end up with a problematic demoulding job( ie: make sure that all the gaps are filed, that the concave details are demouldable, that the offset joints are sealed... )
Also make the first or second part out of the mould super thick, so that it can be used as a second plug. You're first wood plug is probably going to die in the demoulding process given the complexity of the project and of the detailing.
Good luck for the continuation and keep the nice pictures coming...
By the way, if you need some help on the full flying elevator geometry, my offer still stands...
Thanks for the tips. Its very hard to determine what to put on the website to inform the customers of the strength and complex designs going into the airframe, but with not putting to much info out their to make it easy for other companies to steal the idea's. I had debated on making the NACA ducts as resin cast detail parts to be installed during the build, but Decided to give it a try as you see it. The backside of them are un-supported so i fully expect them to be destroyed during the demold process.
Great idea on the extra super thick part coming out.. i had not thought of doing that, but its a very good idea and with the amount of glass i'll have left over, it will be no problem to do at all.. plus it would be a good "traveling" part to carry to show's.
I will keep you in mind on the elevator geometry. I need to get it figured out fairly soon so i can get the cad parts file finalized before sending it off for machining.
Nick,
Thanks bud! How ya been?
02-10-2010, 10:21 AM
#628
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RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
"This is THE key point in getting the swept wing right. I am sure that you've seen the video of the FEJ F-14 tucking heavily in the turn and almost crashing. This is due to the fact that this plane has the swept wing mechanism driven by a plate system. Adding the fact that the wing is not enough torsion resistant and you get about +- 1/7 '' incidence play at the trailing edge that gets the plane tuck down in the turn. "
Olnico,
I didn't know you were flying the F-14 in that video, how was the rest of the flight? Were there any other times when you felt you were about to crash? Did you notice any elevator control issues while you had the wings swept? Did it take more up elevator to maintain level flight with the wings swept than you anticipated??? How does the drive system effect the incidence?
Olnico,
I didn't know you were flying the F-14 in that video, how was the rest of the flight? Were there any other times when you felt you were about to crash? Did you notice any elevator control issues while you had the wings swept? Did it take more up elevator to maintain level flight with the wings swept than you anticipated??? How does the drive system effect the incidence?
02-10-2010, 10:56 AM
#629
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
ORIGINAL: foster4u
''This is THE key point in getting the swept wing right. I am sure that you've seen the video of the FEJ F-14 tucking heavily in the turn and almost crashing. This is due to the fact that this plane has the swept wing mechanism driven by a plate system. Adding the fact that the wing is not enough torsion resistant and you get about +- 1/7 '' incidence play at the trailing edge that gets the plane tuck down in the turn. ''
Olnico,
I didn't know you were flying the F-14 in that video, how was the rest of the flight? Were there any other times when you felt you were about to crash? Did you notice any elevator control issues while you had the wings swept? Did it take more up elevator to maintain level flight with the wings swept than you anticipated??? How does the drive system effect the incidence?
''This is THE key point in getting the swept wing right. I am sure that you've seen the video of the FEJ F-14 tucking heavily in the turn and almost crashing. This is due to the fact that this plane has the swept wing mechanism driven by a plate system. Adding the fact that the wing is not enough torsion resistant and you get about +- 1/7 '' incidence play at the trailing edge that gets the plane tuck down in the turn. ''
Olnico,
I didn't know you were flying the F-14 in that video, how was the rest of the flight? Were there any other times when you felt you were about to crash? Did you notice any elevator control issues while you had the wings swept? Did it take more up elevator to maintain level flight with the wings swept than you anticipated??? How does the drive system effect the incidence?
02-10-2010, 11:20 AM
#630
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RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
AS I have one in my garage I am aware of the aircraft and it's wing arrangement, I too want to have a safe,great flying aircraft and would be open to all input. While I totally agree on some points, I resist "as a matter of fact" statements when they are not from the guy at the stick. I still would like to know how the slider arrangement effect the wing incident. I am spending a lot of time studying the wing sweep and I have the benifit of pulling advice from aircraft engineers working around me.
As a side note I admire you and your thread for the effort and work you are putting into this project. This is not an easy task and you are doing an awesome job...
As a side note I admire you and your thread for the effort and work you are putting into this project. This is not an easy task and you are doing an awesome job...
02-10-2010, 09:21 PM
#631
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Todays progress included Lots more snow shoveling... And then some work on the F-14. I got the gun blister panels complete except for one. And i got ALOT of the engine nacelle's complete as well. The plan for now, is to try and have the engine nacelles/intakes and nose section completed by the end of the week. Then as far as fuselage detail left after that, it will be the sparrow wells, the edges of the gloves and a bunch of access panels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZgIuTnPwAg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZgIuTnPwAg
02-12-2010, 07:04 PM
#632
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Finally lots of progress! If i could keep this pace up, i would be ready to start the mold making process by the end of the month.. but since work is going to enterfere with that, i'm shooting for the middle of march, first of april:
02-12-2010, 09:01 PM
#633
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RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Can't wait to see how you do the parting planes on this one Thomas!!! It's going to be owesome. I'v got to get my 7th scale Mig 21 out and take a close look at what can be done with it!!! Don't put your shovel away yet as well. Ha.
02-12-2010, 09:07 PM
#634
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
ORIGINAL: hooker53
Can't wait to see how you do the parting planes on this one Thomas!!! It's going to be owesome. I'v got to get my 7th scale Mig 21 out and take a close look at what can be done with it!!! Don't put your shovel away yet as well. Ha.
Can't wait to see how you do the parting planes on this one Thomas!!! It's going to be owesome. I'v got to get my 7th scale Mig 21 out and take a close look at what can be done with it!!! Don't put your shovel away yet as well. Ha.
Yea i'm not sure how im going to do the parting planes yet as well... Mostly likely i'll go from the upper inlet top down the center of the nose section, down the center of the fuselage gloves, around the wing opening and then at the top edge of the fuselage.... 7th scale mig 21 eh.... is this a scratch build you did or? I am SOOOOO not looking forward to more snow.... ugh. have ya gotten yourself dug out yet?
02-12-2010, 09:16 PM
#635
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RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Tom your not going to believe this but I didn't even get power back on till late wed night save my Gens. Still don't have twisted pair. The mig is an old Skyglass kit if you remember them. I will dig up your reg. e-mail and shoot you a photo. I fig it's close enough to get plug measurement off of. Being that the wing is one Pc. underslung my thoughts would have to be how to re-model that part for two Pc wings. I think it would be a dandy to do. Be sure if you can to give us plenty of good shots of how you do your partings. Later
02-13-2010, 07:52 PM
#636
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Lots more progress done today.. i got some of the more tedious stuff done like some exhaust vent panels (5 hours to do the 2 vent panels and the 2 vents on the gear doors)... The missle wells are completely finished, and were much easier than expected.. As far as the fuselage, overall it is around 85-90% complete! All that is left, are the panels around the sides of the fuselage, 3 panels on the nose (not including the canopy area, as i still have to make molds of this to get the vacuum form plugs for the clear canopy) and then their are a ton of access panels to cut out and put in place. I think i should have the fuselage done by the end of the month. The wings and rest of the tail panels should take most if not all of march, so it is looking VERY promising to get started making molds around the first of april! If that happens, i should have the first airframe molded by the end of the summer and hopefully in time for some of the later jet meets 
pictures... but no youtube video, i'll make one tomorrow:
pictures... but no youtube video, i'll make one tomorrow:
02-14-2010, 02:13 AM
#640
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RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Thomas, u r doing amazing job on this plug, i would be keenly watching you how you will make parting boards and then molds on this complex fuselage. Would love to have your kit in my inventory when ever you will release them.
Arrow has taken different approach now, it will not be same as others have!. Still working on making CF spar doubler myself, asking all the gurus how to do it. Good thing is, i can make it w/out vac bagging by using peal ply instead and then compressing sheets between 1/2" thick glass sheets (heavy stuff).
Sam
Arrow has taken different approach now, it will not be same as others have!. Still working on making CF spar doubler myself, asking all the gurus how to do it. Good thing is, i can make it w/out vac bagging by using peal ply instead and then compressing sheets between 1/2" thick glass sheets (heavy stuff).
Sam
02-14-2010, 02:57 AM
#641
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
02-17-2010, 08:17 PM
#642
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
So its been awhile since the last update... I've still been pluggin away at the 14 getting panels made and put on. I've got some rubber compound curing right now around the 2 most difficult panels on the fuselage... unfortunately these area's took way more material than I expected (12 cups to be exact) and i ran out of material.. but no fear, i dont think this idea will work anyways, but if it does, i'll have to order more.. The nose is completed except for 1 panel just behind the randome and the panels around the windscreen (gotta paint this area, so i can pull a mold from it for the canopy/windscreen clear plastic plug). The engine nacelles and bottom of the fuselage is completed minus some detail stuff (like access panels, etc) and the fuselage gloves are completed except for the forward transition panel and the nav light panels. I'll probly get the nav light panels cut out tonight while i wait on the rubber to cure. Anyways, here's alot of photo's from the past couple of days:
02-18-2010, 02:33 PM
#647
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
I would guess it's a urethane mold for pressing the aluminum into to make one piece panels
I would guess it's a urethane mold for pressing the aluminum into to make one piece panels
you are correct... that is, if the forms work like i think they should. hehe
02-19-2010, 10:56 PM
#649
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
So here we go... the rubber molds ended up being pretty pointless for the aft panels. The panels around the gear doors, it worked out very well, as it allowed me to get 2/3 of the door in 1 piece.. the sides had to end up being a 2nd panel to keep them from being creased horribly, which you can see very well in the 2nd picture... Picture 3 shows how the gear door panels were made (with the items in picture 4) to fit the bottom and the curved area of the door. the sides were a seperate panel. Picture 5 shows one of the aft panels completed and installed. Picture 6 shows the gaggle of access panels that were installed on the bottom of the plane. pictures 7,8,9,10 show some detail parts.. including the gun ejectors that i had previously forgotten about, but put in place today. The last photo show's the new Randome tip..
AND a new you-tube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb3gemcQaAA
AND a new you-tube video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb3gemcQaAA
02-20-2010, 02:09 AM
#650
RE: 1/7th F-14D Scratch build thread *building started*
Hello Thomas:
Congratulations again for your great job. But, how you remove the nose section for make the mold ? I not find in the photos any double cross section for make this thing.
Please, explain me it.
Many thanks in advance.
Carlos.
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Congratulations again for your great job. But, how you remove the nose section for make the mold ? I not find in the photos any double cross section for make this thing.
Please, explain me it.
Many thanks in advance.
Carlos.
___________________
http://cmjets.blogspot.com/