AMT Pegasus and ASU help
07-20-2009, 11:49 PM
#1
AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Hi guys,
I recently picked up a CAI Raptor with a Pegasus. However, I don't have the instructions for the Pegasus. I have owned one in the past, but that was a while ago and I don't remember much about it.
I also received the AMT ASU with it, I have never used this unit and haven't a clue how to use it.
So, I have some questions......
1. I have the ECU plugged into 2 receiver channels, one with the 3 position switch and the other in throttle. How do I do the ECU teach with the radio? I remember pushing a small button on the ECU or something but I don't remember what the steps are. I also have an EDT though I have to see if the battery will take a charge or not.
2. Outside of the obvious hooking up the scuba tank, propane and the ASU umbilical to the jet, how does the ASU work? I see there is one button for air on it, do you just push and hold the button and the ASU does the rest or is there more to it than that?
If it makes any difference for the ECU, I'm using a 12X with an AR9000 receiver.
Thanks in advance!
Jeremy
I recently picked up a CAI Raptor with a Pegasus. However, I don't have the instructions for the Pegasus. I have owned one in the past, but that was a while ago and I don't remember much about it.
I also received the AMT ASU with it, I have never used this unit and haven't a clue how to use it.
So, I have some questions......
1. I have the ECU plugged into 2 receiver channels, one with the 3 position switch and the other in throttle. How do I do the ECU teach with the radio? I remember pushing a small button on the ECU or something but I don't remember what the steps are. I also have an EDT though I have to see if the battery will take a charge or not.
2. Outside of the obvious hooking up the scuba tank, propane and the ASU umbilical to the jet, how does the ASU work? I see there is one button for air on it, do you just push and hold the button and the ASU does the rest or is there more to it than that?
If it makes any difference for the ECU, I'm using a 12X with an AR9000 receiver.
Thanks in advance!
Jeremy
07-21-2009, 12:10 AM
#3
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Jeremy:
You have to re-calibrate your ECU everytime you turn it on, you have to cycle the 3 position switch as well as the throtle and check that you have all the beeps, one at each switch position and one on low thro, one on mid and one on high. move both (stick/switch)until you start getting the beeps. I have never used an ASU unit but I believe the air button is for cooling the turbine, starting I believe is done with the 3 position switch, but do not know how.
If I recall correctly the low tone on the 3 position switch is for inmediate shutdown, the mid is for normal shutdown (turbine gets RPM to 50,000 to stabilize, then shuts down) the high tone is for "run"
You have to re-calibrate your ECU everytime you turn it on, you have to cycle the 3 position switch as well as the throtle and check that you have all the beeps, one at each switch position and one on low thro, one on mid and one on high. move both (stick/switch)until you start getting the beeps. I have never used an ASU unit but I believe the air button is for cooling the turbine, starting I believe is done with the 3 position switch, but do not know how.
If I recall correctly the low tone on the 3 position switch is for inmediate shutdown, the mid is for normal shutdown (turbine gets RPM to 50,000 to stabilize, then shuts down) the high tone is for "run"
07-21-2009, 08:42 AM
#5
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Hi guys, it's an AMT USA Pegasus, it's an old one, probably 8 or 9 years old at least. It is not an SP or HP, likely a MK3. I'll see if I can get the EDT to charge today, then I will probably be able to find out the ECU version and such as well.
07-21-2009, 08:55 AM
#6
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
You can open the EDT and replace battery w/ regular 9 volt alkaline battery if yours wont take a charge.. It will last at least a year. Thats what i do...works great. after it is running, run it up full throttle and hold until EDT says Max RPM set. Go Fly !!!!
Good luck,
Dan Massey
Austin, Tx.
Good luck,
Dan Massey
Austin, Tx.
07-21-2009, 08:58 AM
#7
My Feedback: (1)
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Two ways to start. Manual one..Plug the air and gas lines into appropreate quick connects. Turn the Trans and Rec and ECU bett on. Move the 3 position switch threw all three beeps Low beep is your emergency off middle beep is auto shut down, high beep is run postion. Move throttle stick low med and high postions. It will make the same beeps. High throttle should have the high pitch beep if not that channel is reversed. Check the end points on Trans and make sure that when you reduce the throttle one click the EDT comes off 100% percent throttle if not reduce end point s until it does. When you finsish with the beeps the EDT will say start clearance and should be reading temp around 25 ish
Push the scuba bottle on and get the turbine spinning. Stop the air for a breaf second while turning on the gas with the glow drvier in place. When you hear it pop add air and turn the gas up trying to keep exhaust gases temp between 250 and 400 pump starts running around 150 I think The EDT will let you know when to turn off air and gas
The ASU works with the 3 position switch. When you are ready cycle the swithc from low to high, When you hit the high postion the ASU spins and starts the engine. Be sure you have the plugs hooked up correctly.
Hope this helps
Push the scuba bottle on and get the turbine spinning. Stop the air for a breaf second while turning on the gas with the glow drvier in place. When you hear it pop add air and turn the gas up trying to keep exhaust gases temp between 250 and 400 pump starts running around 150 I think The EDT will let you know when to turn off air and gas
The ASU works with the 3 position switch. When you are ready cycle the swithc from low to high, When you hit the high postion the ASU spins and starts the engine. Be sure you have the plugs hooked up correctly.
Hope this helps
07-21-2009, 09:02 AM
#8
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RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Jeremy,
Sorry for the long reply.
Let's make some assumptions:
1 you have a generation one ECU
2 none of the components have been modified
Ruiz is correct.
The button is a manual "switch" for the air; you can push that button before start up to spin the engine.
The cable for the "switch cannel (input C) on the ecu should be on the 3 position switch and it does have to be calibrated before every startup. I set my switch the same as my throttle. The up position (away) is for the high tone and the low position is for the low tone. Make sure that your travel is setup to hear three tones on the switch and three tones on the throttle.
The connections are pretty straight forward:
The ASU and Telemetry cables can only be plugged in one way to the ASU.
I like to use check valves in the ASU for the compressed air and propane. Remember to trim the length of the rubber boot slightly to make sure you get a good connection to the glow plug and ground the ASU to the can of the turbine.
You need to use a special charge lead for the EDT if it will not take a charge it will take a standard 9 volt battery, carefully cut the sticker and remove the screws from the EDT and replace the battery. Rechargeable 9 volts are available at Radio Shack in the US. Connect the EDT to the umbilical start box.
The umbilical is keyed and should be plugged into the ASU with the white lines lined up, make sure that you make a good connection, sometimes the pins in the ASU get pushed in and do not make contact.
If everything above is correct, and the engine is setup properly:
Connect the umbilical start box to a 12 volt battery.
Turn on your transmitter
Turn on your receiver
Turn on your ECU
Calibrate your ECU with the three position switch and leave it in the low position
Look at your EDT make sure that your throttle shows 0%, 50% and 100%, and you hear all three tones from the ECU for the throttle.
Connect you scuba air and open the valve, a solenoid will hold the pressure, hold the end of the umbilical and press the button, air should come out.
Connect you propane and open the valve, the umbilical start box has a solenoid and a needle valve to restrict the propane flow. I like to regulate my propane to 30 pounds of pressure and use the needle valve for fine tuning the propane flow.
Now connect the umbilical to the ASU.
Advance the three position switch to the middle setting, the EDT will display different information.
When it is safe and you are ready to start, advance the switch to the high, run position. Air solenoid will open the glow plug will receive voltage, the air will shut off, the propane will flow and ignite, the air and propane will spin the engine to around 35,000 RPM. The EDT will tell you when the engine is running and to disconnect the air and propane. At this point just close your scuba tank and propane tan’s valves. Let the engine run at around 33,000RPM. Advance the throttle slowly to 100% wait for the RPM to “set max†power around 117,000, then go back to idle. Disconnect the umbilical and the engine is running and calibrated.
To shut down:
Open the scuba valve
Connect the umbilical to the ASU, move the switch to the middle “normal shutdown†position. The engine will spool up slightly and then it will flame out. Shut off the fuel valve to the engine. The scuba air will pulse to automatically cool the engine. You will receive the Start Clearance message on the EDT when the engine has reached the proper temperature and the scuba air will cease to pulse.
Please call me if you have any questions.
Thanks,
John Roth
708-476-2115
Sorry for the long reply.
Let's make some assumptions:
1 you have a generation one ECU
2 none of the components have been modified
Ruiz is correct.
The button is a manual "switch" for the air; you can push that button before start up to spin the engine.
The cable for the "switch cannel (input C) on the ecu should be on the 3 position switch and it does have to be calibrated before every startup. I set my switch the same as my throttle. The up position (away) is for the high tone and the low position is for the low tone. Make sure that your travel is setup to hear three tones on the switch and three tones on the throttle.
The connections are pretty straight forward:
The ASU and Telemetry cables can only be plugged in one way to the ASU.
I like to use check valves in the ASU for the compressed air and propane. Remember to trim the length of the rubber boot slightly to make sure you get a good connection to the glow plug and ground the ASU to the can of the turbine.
You need to use a special charge lead for the EDT if it will not take a charge it will take a standard 9 volt battery, carefully cut the sticker and remove the screws from the EDT and replace the battery. Rechargeable 9 volts are available at Radio Shack in the US. Connect the EDT to the umbilical start box.
The umbilical is keyed and should be plugged into the ASU with the white lines lined up, make sure that you make a good connection, sometimes the pins in the ASU get pushed in and do not make contact.
If everything above is correct, and the engine is setup properly:
Connect the umbilical start box to a 12 volt battery.
Turn on your transmitter
Turn on your receiver
Turn on your ECU
Calibrate your ECU with the three position switch and leave it in the low position
Look at your EDT make sure that your throttle shows 0%, 50% and 100%, and you hear all three tones from the ECU for the throttle.
Connect you scuba air and open the valve, a solenoid will hold the pressure, hold the end of the umbilical and press the button, air should come out.
Connect you propane and open the valve, the umbilical start box has a solenoid and a needle valve to restrict the propane flow. I like to regulate my propane to 30 pounds of pressure and use the needle valve for fine tuning the propane flow.
Now connect the umbilical to the ASU.
Advance the three position switch to the middle setting, the EDT will display different information.
When it is safe and you are ready to start, advance the switch to the high, run position. Air solenoid will open the glow plug will receive voltage, the air will shut off, the propane will flow and ignite, the air and propane will spin the engine to around 35,000 RPM. The EDT will tell you when the engine is running and to disconnect the air and propane. At this point just close your scuba tank and propane tan’s valves. Let the engine run at around 33,000RPM. Advance the throttle slowly to 100% wait for the RPM to “set max†power around 117,000, then go back to idle. Disconnect the umbilical and the engine is running and calibrated.
To shut down:
Open the scuba valve
Connect the umbilical to the ASU, move the switch to the middle “normal shutdown†position. The engine will spool up slightly and then it will flame out. Shut off the fuel valve to the engine. The scuba air will pulse to automatically cool the engine. You will receive the Start Clearance message on the EDT when the engine has reached the proper temperature and the scuba air will cease to pulse.
Please call me if you have any questions.
Thanks,
John Roth
708-476-2115
07-21-2009, 09:33 AM
#9
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
John,
Thank you for the in depth response. I have the ECU hooked up with the switch channel on a 3 position switch and the other one in the throttle channel, it won't make the beeps though for me. I will try adjusting the travel in the radio and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks again
Thank you to everyone else who responded as well!
Jeremy
Thank you for the in depth response. I have the ECU hooked up with the switch channel on a 3 position switch and the other one in the throttle channel, it won't make the beeps though for me. I will try adjusting the travel in the radio and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks again
Thank you to everyone else who responded as well!
Jeremy
07-21-2009, 10:04 AM
#10
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Alright, I just pulled the ECU and battery out of the jet. The ECU says Version 4.33 and is dated 97.08.01 (assuming that's the date, maybe not, the letters before that are HWVER)
Surprisingly, the ECU battery that I pulled out was a 7.2V 700mah pack? It fit in the CAI battery box perfectly, and it has the AMT ECU leads on it (the thick black ones) but the last Pegasus I had used an 11.1V battery pack, did the older version's use a 7.2V then (I assume they must have as this jet has flown more than once by the previous owner). I need to charge the battery pack, I'm sure it's low, that may be why the ECU won't beep at me with the 3 position switch or throttle, it beeps when it turns on, after about 30 seconds it just starts beeping.
Anyway, I have to head off to work now anyway, but I'll charge up the battery while I'm there and try again tonight.
Does it sound like I'm missing anything else?
Thanks again
Jeremy
Surprisingly, the ECU battery that I pulled out was a 7.2V 700mah pack? It fit in the CAI battery box perfectly, and it has the AMT ECU leads on it (the thick black ones) but the last Pegasus I had used an 11.1V battery pack, did the older version's use a 7.2V then (I assume they must have as this jet has flown more than once by the previous owner). I need to charge the battery pack, I'm sure it's low, that may be why the ECU won't beep at me with the 3 position switch or throttle, it beeps when it turns on, after about 30 seconds it just starts beeping.
Anyway, I have to head off to work now anyway, but I'll charge up the battery while I'm there and try again tonight.
Does it sound like I'm missing anything else?
Thanks again
Jeremy
07-21-2009, 10:23 AM
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RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Hi Jeremy,
Please see manual for the beep sequence. This will give information about what the ECU is missing.
Like John wrote it's the procedure that must be followed with an ECU version 1 (Pegasus V4.33). So every time you switch on the ECU it will learn the positions of the switch and 0%-100% positions of the throttle. In the V2 version I change this into a once learning process.
What the battery concerns, it can handle both. 6 cells is the minimum for V1 ECU's.
I hope you will findout soon what the problem is.
Ray Struik
AMT Netherlands
Electronic Control Designer
Please see manual for the beep sequence. This will give information about what the ECU is missing.
Like John wrote it's the procedure that must be followed with an ECU version 1 (Pegasus V4.33). So every time you switch on the ECU it will learn the positions of the switch and 0%-100% positions of the throttle. In the V2 version I change this into a once learning process.
What the battery concerns, it can handle both. 6 cells is the minimum for V1 ECU's.
I hope you will findout soon what the problem is.
Ray Struik
AMT Netherlands
Electronic Control Designer
07-21-2009, 11:18 AM
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RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Jeremy,
here are the error codes:
1 beep starting up sequence / low RPM error
2 beeps switch input channel failed
3 beeps regular input channel failed
4 beeps exhuast temperature error
5 beeps high RPM error
6 beeps pump battery voltage low
let me know if you need more info.
Thanks,
John
here are the error codes:
1 beep starting up sequence / low RPM error
2 beeps switch input channel failed
3 beeps regular input channel failed
4 beeps exhuast temperature error
5 beeps high RPM error
6 beeps pump battery voltage low
let me know if you need more info.
Thanks,
John
07-21-2009, 11:47 AM
#14
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
John R.
Ran mine and Dougs engine yesterday.. They run great but max rpm set is showing 14.5/15k rpm.. I know the rpm has been bumped up over the years, I think the original engines were set at 110k. Can I send in the ecu to upgrade it to 117k?? Any ramifications to doing this ? My Netherlands HP was set at 117.5k @ 34+lbs.. Let me know please your thought on this. BTW, this engine yesterday showed 24.5 lbs @ 114.5...
Thanks a bunch !!!
Dan Massey
Austin
Ran mine and Dougs engine yesterday.. They run great but max rpm set is showing 14.5/15k rpm.. I know the rpm has been bumped up over the years, I think the original engines were set at 110k. Can I send in the ecu to upgrade it to 117k?? Any ramifications to doing this ? My Netherlands HP was set at 117.5k @ 34+lbs.. Let me know please your thought on this. BTW, this engine yesterday showed 24.5 lbs @ 114.5...
Thanks a bunch !!!
Dan Massey
Austin
07-21-2009, 01:44 PM
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RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
Hi Dan,
There is some controversy; there is a school of thought that says to prolong your bearings and engine the turbines should only be run at max power for short bursts. If the maximum velocity is 117,000 but your engine is tuned to 110,000, your engine should have a longer life than an engine turning 117,000. Full scale commercial aircraft take off at a higher throttle setting and cruise at a lower setting, I think military pilots know if they fly max power for long periods of time the engines require more maintenance. I could be wrong.
I have a USMJ 180 turning 149,000 in a Jet Legend F-15, the take off run is about 500 feet and it takes a lap to get on step and start flying with authority. I am going to turn the engine up to 152,000 max RPM and I will only use it for take off and short bursts of power.
To answer your question, you should send in your whole engine system to be checked out by the factory, if it can be turned up safely they will if you ask them to. The inspection and test run will cost $65 plus shipping and should take a week to turn around.
Please let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Thanks,
John
There is some controversy; there is a school of thought that says to prolong your bearings and engine the turbines should only be run at max power for short bursts. If the maximum velocity is 117,000 but your engine is tuned to 110,000, your engine should have a longer life than an engine turning 117,000. Full scale commercial aircraft take off at a higher throttle setting and cruise at a lower setting, I think military pilots know if they fly max power for long periods of time the engines require more maintenance. I could be wrong.
I have a USMJ 180 turning 149,000 in a Jet Legend F-15, the take off run is about 500 feet and it takes a lap to get on step and start flying with authority. I am going to turn the engine up to 152,000 max RPM and I will only use it for take off and short bursts of power.
To answer your question, you should send in your whole engine system to be checked out by the factory, if it can be turned up safely they will if you ask them to. The inspection and test run will cost $65 plus shipping and should take a week to turn around.
Please let me know if I can answer any other questions.
Thanks,
John
07-23-2009, 12:34 AM
#16
My Feedback: (1)
RE: AMT Pegasus and ASU help
I fly all gen I airstart, AMT's, pegasus, pegasusHP, AT400 They all appear to use the same pump and I do see max pump voltages are like 3.5-4.8 VDC so 7.2VDC for ECU batt is fine. Jim W from original AMT USA said the test bench used 12VDC for ECU......
Some other items, Activating 3position in a specific order, low/high/center is done every power on and sets "ready to run" mode of ECU, cycling throttle stick for calibration is not required (I dont do it every power up, 8years now). However by doing so you are assured "ready to run" is established, Because the ASU does not need the EDT (Display) to start the turbine.
The battery in the EDT (display) does not need to be charged to run in conjunction with the ASU, it powers up from the 12VDC of the ASU. It does however need to be charged IF you were to manual start without an ASU by just using the onboard unmbilcal plug and EDT (Display).
Hope this help..........
Some other items, Activating 3position in a specific order, low/high/center is done every power on and sets "ready to run" mode of ECU, cycling throttle stick for calibration is not required (I dont do it every power up, 8years now). However by doing so you are assured "ready to run" is established, Because the ASU does not need the EDT (Display) to start the turbine.
The battery in the EDT (display) does not need to be charged to run in conjunction with the ASU, it powers up from the 12VDC of the ASU. It does however need to be charged IF you were to manual start without an ASU by just using the onboard unmbilcal plug and EDT (Display).
Hope this help..........
