sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

Depends.......I know alot of "Jet" guys who know how to fly sport jets but don't have clue about military jets. If my jet is going in, it better be because of me. But, its all in who you buddy box with. You gotta trust (see the word KNOW) that the other guy is better than you with that particular style plane.

I do think that the majority of CD/Turbine waiver folks would require the turbine to be flown on the test as well. I still think the Flap/Retract is absurd though because alot of planes just don't have them or need them.

highhorse

My Feedback: (2)

As a recently waivered guy, I could not agree more. I can't imagine even WANTING to demonstrate for a turbine waiver while flying a proppie of ANY sort. There are simply too many dissimilarities. My waiver process was a LEARNING one, and I'm very grateful to have been exposed to turbines thru, well, a TURBINE (Reaction 54), and not my H-9 P-51 (yes, I have one of those too), even though the P-51 is in some ways harder to fly.

Opinions aside, I can't see how it's even POSSIBLE to demonstrate "turbine" skills without using a turbine.

BaldEagel

We don't have a waiver system in the UK yet, but the BMFA who is our govening body is talking about a certificate for jets at the moment, the problem I see is that if we take the test with a prop plane can we demonstrate competence with a turbine, this would seem not possible to me, but then in the UK we can take a driving test in a Nisan Micra or a McLaren F1 there is no restriction on what you learn on, unless this has changed since I took my driving test.

Mike

Pete737

I brought my jet and my P-47.

I demonstrated turbine competency by starting and shutting down my jet. I flew my waiver flight on the P-47.I wish I could have flew the jet but the guys thought it would be better to wait and resolve a few more issues with my setup. Although I didn't want to buddy box, I was open to the possibility.

Pete

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

...and interestingly enough...in another thread you are asking for assistance in trying to figure out why your landings are going downhill. Maybe if you had properly done your training on the jet when the bugs were worked out instead of being in a rush "to get a waiver" with a prop and then trying to teach yourself (I'm sure you still had help...but you get the idea) you would not be experiencing the issues you are currently beating yourself over the head with.

Beave

SinCityJets

No turbine, no sign off. You can beg, borrow (not from me), or steal one (better not be from me), but I'm not signing anyone off that doesn't take their test with a turbine.

Just doesn't make any sense (to me).

Chad

Pete737

I would hardly say I was "in a rush" In fact I waited quite sometime to fly the jet. I patiently took and followed the advice of much more experienced pilots, This was said in another thread as well.

I simply took the opportunity to get signed off since it was a good time to do so with CD's present.

I'm not beating myself over the head by any means, Strange of you to come to that conclusion, I'm just inquiring as to whether or not I'm in a stage that new turbine pilots enter..

Pete

limeybob

My Feedback: (6)

Same here , BAe Hawk.
Bob

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

Pete,

No attack is/was meant...just pointing out a conclusion made after reading your thread and assimilating the many other threads you have had in the past 6 months or so. As you can assuredly attest...your P-47 does not fly one iota like any turbine powered aircraft you own, so in actuality...your flight test was a waste of time. I have flown dozens of giant scale war birds (Ziroli, Don Smith and Aerotech)...single engine...twin engine and 4 engine versions and I can tell you first hand that none of them even remotely resemble turbine flying.

My humble opinion has been stated...no one (yes, even you if I had a vote) would be issued a turbine waiver unless they flew it with a Turbine powered aircraft (no flight allowed with a prop plane).

Beave

Pete737

No offense taken Beave, Sorry if my response implied this. I should have mentioned that I am not disputing whether or not the test should or should not be done with a turbine model, I don't have the experience to make such an assumption anyway. Just reciting my personal experience with the waiver.

I agree, My jug nor any other airplane I have flown yet resembles a turbine model, the acceleration lag is what came as the biggest surprise during the transition, albeit jet centrals may be fast to spool [8D].

Take care, Pete

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Wow, there are CD's and I guess there are CD's.

I got my waiver on a beat down Top Gun F-15 with a Dynamax and a nice OS.91. Bought just to get he waiver and then sold it off. The local CD was such a nice guy that he actually pumped me into buying my first jet right away (A BVM Maverick from Limeybob and Shok).

BTW, I find flying a Ducted Fan vs a Boomerang or a Reaction far more challenging, specially the down wind touch and go (what a biatch!!!). Ha,ha andI had to do it ona 105F day.

Ha,ha wish I had been able to afford a Bandit for my signoff, but I had to settle for the F-15. I think a Bandit is a close as it gets to turbine flying, but a CD should settle for a Ducted Fan.

rhklenke

My Feedback: (24)

Yea, people are coming down pretty hard on the "no turbine, no waiver" side. I guess they forgot the time when you *COULD NOT* get a waiver on a turbine because there was *no* turbine buddy box provision in the rules. Personally (as a CD), I would waiver someone with a DF or with a high wing loaded warbird. Both are better examples to see pilot skills with than a Shok Jet or a Boomer...


Bob

SinCityJets

Can't argue with that!

jbarnes

Reading this thread you guys get me nervous. I going to build a JetMach 100 Turbine trainer this Winter. It does not have retracts but has flaps. It is not a heavy warbird turbine. I'm going for a trainer turbine to get me a basic understanding of turbines before I move into the more expensive world of warbird jets. Is this trainer I'm building basically a waste of time and I should refocus my efforts on a smaller (heavier wing loaded) bird with retracts? Thanks, Jerry.

jayman618

My Feedback: (5)

I think some of the CD's that wouldn’t sign someone off with a fast prop plane think way too much of their own abilities. It's rather simple to buy a turbine and learn how to operate it properly and to know the safety equipment and procedures needed to start and stop it. Most of the turbine crashes that I see are on landing at speeds way less than 100 mph. I think the turbine CD should follow the waiver rules....not make personal unnecessary ones to suit just the CD. You should be able; by questioning and watching an applicant fly and demonstrate his knowledge and flying skills, to determine whether he would be a careful, safe turbine pilot. Just my opinion!

sweetpea01

My Feedback: (10)

No you're fine. What you need to do is chat with the CD and turbine holder (need 2 sigs) and make sure they will sign you off with that choice.

KC36330

so you wouldn't have a problem with a guy who's only flown a Cessna 150 hopping in the cockpit and taking the controls of a triple 7 with your family in the back on a trip across the big pond??

KC36330

as long as you can find the flap and brake switches without looking down or fumbling around i wouldn't have a problem signing you off with a non retracting undercarriage, same goes for the non flap birds, if you can find the switches for everything else and you pass the flight portion of the test, you'll get my signature but i won't sign saying anyone is a qualified turbine operator without them demonstrating their ability to operate a turbine.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Jerry don't be. A Jetmach will not teach how to do 200 mph, nor how to land a heavy loaded warbird, but it will teach you the basics of how to setup your equipment and get familiarized with the safety factors involved. It may take a couple of airframes before you feel safe to spend heavy dollars into a scale jet, weather you have the money or not.

Chances are you probably have the flying skills already, so it is just a matter of learning how to ensure that your airframe is safe for flight, etc. From a Jetmach you can probably jump to an F-16, then to anything imaginable.
As I stated, I started with Ducted Fans, as many others did. Wish I had been able to start with a Jetmach with a real turbine jet. That would have been great. Build your Jetmach and enjoy it's trouble free performance, before you enter the hign maintenance world of scale birds.

ira d

Jayman

Your post is IMO 110% correct.

ira d

That would only happen in some sort of extreme emergency and if that was the case I would not have a problem with it.

KC36330

well i would and i'd get my family the hell off the jet.

bigaco

kc, where would you go at 30,000 ft

KC36330

i wasn't insinuating you were at 30K' but on the ramp getting ready for your vacation trip with the family when you were told 'Hey capt Joe can't make it today so his buddy from the bar who has at least 10 hrs in a Cessna is gonna take his place today'

FILE IFR

I agree with Bob here, BUT KC and Chad make very good points about the test and it makes very good sense.

There is a personal requirement of one strict, fair and longtime CD waiver holder I know... If the applicant passes the test, he/she (ace pilot or not) is strongly suggested to fly the first 5 flights supervised by an experienced turbine waiver holder. I think that is a very good suggestion to the new jet pilot... for both ace and mediocre pilots alike.

BTW, I've heard an H9 P-51 used for testing, I doubt it's a heavily loaded wing. If they exhibit good skill and control during the flight test, that's half the battle of passing.