lear31A

My Feedback: (123)

Hey Guys, I an building a SM 1/8 F-16. This is my first "fast" and scale jet. I notice there is an option to use ailerons or elevons. Just wondering if it is really sloppy on landing with no ailerons? What are the pros and cons? Would it be a good idea to not have them on my first real jet so it will be a little more tamed? Thanks for any input!!! I know everyone has seen these, but i can post pics if anyone needs to see it. The aileron servo bays (wing root) is not even cut out yet for the servo to fit into it.

morro

use ailerons, 10mm up and down with 20% expo, using elevons?? if a servo fails you will not recover, if it is your first jet use all controls, I would have someone with you not sure of your flying capabilities I have 2 f-16s and they have ailerons no problems at all.

regards
Todd

KC36330

you actually have more roll control at high AOA landings with the tail over ailerons, but myself i wouldn't build a 16 without the ailerons............with that said I've flown several that only had tailerons and they flew great.

Craig B.

I would recommend that you use flaperons even though the instructions suggest that you don't. Flaps down of only 10mm for landing gives you extra washout in the wing and generates alot more lift and makes these F16's alot more stable for landing. Just watch that you don't over-travel the ailerons in that configuration.

I have hundreds of flights with three F16's and have tried it both ways and the above works the best IMO.

Craig.

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

As Craig said, although many people say that F-16 don't need flaps for landing, it depends on your models weight.

I'm not sure if all those guys that say no need for flaps, has a very light configuration, about 17-18 lbswith turbine (P-60 or similar) in the tail, but when you have installed a P-80 or similar in the middle with exhaust duct and many otherdevices like telemetry, lights, ordinance, etc. and your models weight is close to 24-25 lbs., definitely you will better have flaps (20° as in the real jet fighter).

Even more, I am tempted to install leadig ede flaps (slats) to increase wing camber and increase lift at slow speed.

As you know, stall speed is linked to model weigth, so in a heavy model, stall speed will be higher and to reduce it, you need to increase lift at low speeds. Thats what flaps and even slats do.

In my Futaba 12FGA, I have a configuration for flight and another for take off/landing.

In take off/ landing, I have ailerons mixed with elevators (ailevators) so elevators help ailerons in banking at slow speeds

Regards

KC36330

weight isn't a factor, more weight just means more thrust required in the landing pattern, the people who swear you have to have flaps are the ones who bring it in flat, scared to pull the nose up and gliding around the base/final leg like a prop job. I've flown just about every F-16 out there and when you pull to a high AOA on landing they all slow down to a walking pace and refuse to stall, drooping the ailerons only cancels out part of the ability to fly the high AOA.

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

As you say, more weight, more thrust, that means more speed, more lift. So weigth is definitely a factor for landing speeds. You are right when you said that F-16 landing procedure unlike prop models, is to establish a nose high attitude during landing pattern (down wind leg, base leg and final) and maintain speed with thrust.

High AOA and thrust to keep speed above stall speed, make this model float as you said, refusing to wing tip stall an just reducing altitud in a flat nose up fashion.

I remember three situations I had with my F.16: One, when I landed gliding around the base/final. It touched down as a bullet and thanks to my nose wheel retracted due to an air leak that prevented it to lock in the down position,the jet didn't roll out of runway.

The others two was when I missed the runway laterallyand tried to go around but too late for turbine response time, so I pulled the nose up at more than 45 degrees and at very slow speed and almost touching the ground and it just landedlike a heli.....

But AOA has a limitation and is that to prevent breaking the ventral fins.

So with this max. AOA, weight and stall speed are definitely related.

KC36330

Sorry but that statement just goes to show exactly what i stated and that you're not pulling the nose up, speed is controlled by elevator, thrust controls decent rate. when you pull it up all the wing and fuselage area are exposed as a braking surface and it'll slow down and hang there, the more thrust you add the slower the decent not the faster the airspeed.

Guillermo Ibanez

My Feedback: (1)

Yes.

You are right.

When landing, speed is contolled by elevator, which is an AOA modification device. More AOA, more lift less speed. (Elevator - AOA - Speed- lift)

IMHO, more weight, more speed at a certain AOA to keep lift above stall, or more AOA at the same speed to keep lift above stall.

lear31A

My Feedback: (123)

Great discussion! More wight = More thrust required to maintain a given AOA.

KC36330

not necessarily, yes if you're holding high alpha but not if you're descending for landing where the thrust controls rate of decent.

lear31A

My Feedback: (123)

Have you or do you fly full scale aircraft?

Craig B.

KC,

I agree with your approach to and comments on landing setup 100% and I employ exactly that approach to my flying.....but I still use flaps and I definitely do not bring my jets in flat. Deploying the flaps on this F16 is done primarily for the creation of washout and extra stability at low speeds, not the extra lift so much. So in that sense I do not agree with your generalization quoted above.

The flaps are really useful for the slow speed flight performance on the small F16's

Craig.

SinCityJets

Craig,

Washout would need to bring the ailerons UP during landing (like crow). Moving them down has the opposite effect of washout.

Chad

erbroens

Ditto, I also tried all the configurations on a 1/8 SM F-16 and this is the one I liked most too.

Enrique

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

You can't go wrong either way, but why bother changing the configuration of a perfectly good design and setup? The extra effort just doesn't add up.

Mark Basel

My Feedback: (24)

Can't agree more! It will fly and land great on just tailerons. Put some panel lines and rivet transfers on it and go fly!

Bryce Watson

My Feedback: (6)

Nice plane

MLaCoste

My Feedback: (15)

Mark-

That's a great looking bird!

Brg,
Mark

Mark Basel

My Feedback: (24)

Pretty good paint scheme for sure and Honors the Tuskegee Airmen. Went with my father to DC on a Honor Flight for WWII Veterans to see their memorial a couple weeks ago. We can not thank them enough for their service to our country.

mb

Vincent

My Feedback: (61)

I guess you could set up the plane with tailerons and then use the ailerons as flaps only.
V..

causeitflies

On the F-16 the ailerons/flaps are more inboard than normal ailerons so you get the washout effect with down ailerons, just like flaps.

Mark Basel

My Feedback: (24)

Nice!

Craig B.

HI Chad,
Sorry, but you are 100% wrong. Flaps increase the angle of attack of the most inboard part of the wing and decrease the relative angle of attack of the outboard part of the wing so that the inboard section stalls first, thus preserving laminar flow over the wing tips (therefore enhancing lateral stability)....that is washout. Grab an F15 wing and have a close look at that. Most pronounced washout you will find on a scale jet.

BTW, I sent you an email recently asking what ACT gyros you have in stock but I have not heard back at all.

Craig.

Edit.......

What he said!......