HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Wea has put up a sim of the BAT60 software for you to try
http://www.weatronic.com/en/index.ph...0-software.php

and a guide to get started
http://www.weatronic.com/en/index.ph...AT_60___BAT_64


Unfortunately the sim doesn't work on my Win7 / IE8 PC as the view of the Tx screen is smaller than the Tx screen so I can't get to the menu buttons along the bottom to get it started.
Exactly the same problem on my android phone, wonder if the web page has a small fault?

Looking forward to getting my hands on it for real this Friday at JetPower

tms-ger

...in Firefox it works under W7 for me... I think it is a combination of staic and dynamic pages... (I am not sure if there is a real BAT60 connected to the internet.) But that doesn´t matter. It is a great idea to give interested pilots the possibility to get a closer look at the user interface...

will be on saturday at JP...


best regards

Thomas

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Thomas. I got it to work in Chrome.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

BAT60 instruction manual, in English, now on line
http://www.weatronic.com/de/UserFile...20BAT%2060.pdf

tms-ger

FYI:


weatronic launches the new hand-held BAT 60


Wildau, the 14th October 2014 – tomorrow weatronic launches the official sale of its new hand-held transmitter BAT 60. On time to the company’s 10th anniversary all model makers are welcome in the innovation paradise. From now on there is no limit for channels or predetermined structures. Up to 96 (!) free configurable functions could directly control up to 64 servos, 32 virtual switches, 16 flight phases, 96 limiters and 96 mixers together with other highlights make all your dreams come true. Other solutions as for example screenshots and a complete model management with copy, edit and export of models are the results of our long lasting practical experience. As a development from the leader in reliable data-communication our bidirectional redundant transmission system, the flight-controller separated from the Linux processor as well as the intelligent battery management speak for themselves. Yet another highlight of this transmitter is the new stick design meeting all the possible requirements of model makers including the novel gas/braking lever solution. Those taking a closer look at the solutions developed by the company from the Aerospace Technology Centre in Wildau will understand why the development took that much longer than planned. Hopefully it could be accepted that even more software functions like data recording, voice output and an even more sophisticated telemetry data readout will be updated soon. The whole scope of the new transmitter’s potential powers the creativity and opens totally new prospects to every model maker. The new hand held transmitter BAT 60 is available in black, silver, blue and white. For 1.699, - € (incl. VAT) you receive a transmitter that is surely one of the best transmitters available in the market today. Further information you will find at the company’s web page www.weatronic.com.

--
Best regards from Berlin / Mit besten Grüßen aus Berlin

Ralf Hartmann
Sales and Marketing Manager

Tel : +49 / (0)3375 / 24 60 892
Mobil : +49 / (0)1523 / 42 74 716
Fax : +49 / (0)3375 / 24 60 891
email : [email protected]
web : http://www.weatronic.com

weatronic GmbH
Schmiedestr. 2A
D-15745 Wildau, Germany

VAT-ID : DE 238 193 603
eingetragen /
registered at : HRB 10820 CB, Amtsgericht Cottbus
Geschäftsführer : Nuri Conker, Prof. Dr. Anselm Fabig

Edgar Perez

My Feedback: (13)

I'm waiting for this Tx, but its hard to ask a customer to downgrade to a system that does not have data recording and voice output.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Have you held one in your hands Edgar? I have, many times. I would strongly suggest that you do before you commit money to it.

tms-ger

Hi Edgar,

we use one BAT60 productively for about 20 days now. I would not give it away any more. But one must clearly say, that you must be able to wait for the additional functions to come available time after time AT THIS POINT. Other TX like YETI do already have this functionality, but they will never be a BAT60, if you know what I mean ;-) It is like with most things in life, either you like it or not...
In our case, we simply like it and are interested in that the BATxx will be a success story. Thus we are tolerant to minor bugs and report them to WEA for fixing them. All I can say at this point is, that the TX (Flightcontroller) never stopped working any time!

If you NOW buy a BAT60, you must be patient and eager grow with its functionality over the time, namely with the upcoming updates.
If you are not, you have to wait until the full base functionality is achieved. But be assured that the functionality implemented at this time has enough potential to be already discovered.

Harry, if you do not like the BAT60 housing, it is absolutely OK. One fits all is hard to establish. And I will also continue using our mx22 with the DV4BT. The DV4 concept does not end only because there is a BAT60 / BAT64 in the portfolio and DV4 is still a very good concept with sophisticated range and functionality. Every TX has its pros and cons and every one must find the one which fits best...


best regards from germany

Thomas, a happy BAT60 user.



PS: GPS Pro is working good and has got many improvements over the existing one regarding the GPS portion.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

It's a subjective matter, for each to find a Tx that suits them, but of the great many Tx I have handled (I get asked to do a lot of test flying of other people's models) I have never found a Tx I could not use - until now! I have long fingers and even I can not reach any of the BAT60 switches without coming off the sticks. I find it unuseable, it's as bad as that. Also, all the people that I know personally who have handled it have also said the same, one friend described it as an ergonomic disaster, none of them can operate the switches. I really really wanted a BAT60, I was prepared to buy it at JetPower even though the software isn't finished but I can't buy something that my hands can't use, and since the people that I know say the same thing about it, it is very important for potential buyers to have actually held it and tried to operate it before they part with their money.

If you can operate the switches with no problem Thomas then that's fine, in fact I am jealous of you as I wish I could have a BAT60. But so many of us have a serious problem with the layout that I feel it is important to warn buyers to handle it first and then decide it does work for them, rather than buy it mail order and take a risk of finding out too late they can only use it with difficulty.

roger.alli

That is an interesting observation Harry. I truly hope it the ergonomics is not as bad as you describe. Weatronic have obviously invested an enormous amount of resources in developing these transmitters, and the ability to comfortably reach a flight switch would be a basic requirement that you would expect them to have right.

The switches and sliders don’t look to be too badly positioned, just looking at photos of the Bat 60, but as you say, until you hold one in your hand, it is speculation. I fly with thumbs on top of the sticks, and would need to be able to reach all flight controls without over stretching any fingers.


I'll be holding off purchasing one, at least until; they interface the telemetry with my Xicoy ECUs. This is available on several other brands already and is a basic requirement for turbine operations.

And for goodness sakes, it does not have voice output!!!! . Is this true?? How long will that take to develop. Last time it took years. And no data recording.. Really!!! That was one of the main strengths of the whole Weatronics system. I don’t need “64 servos, 32 virtual switches, 16 flight phases, 96 limiters and 96 mixers”

tms-ger

Hi Roger,

do you know if there is a serious/productive contact between WEA and the xicoy makers already ?

For me, the ergonomics of the BAT60 is OK. There is always something to improve; for every brand. But keep in mind that if you ask 10 pilots for advice in control placement, you will get at least 11 answers ;-) So you have to sort it out...

Maybe Oli can tell about his ergonomic BAT60 experience here; just to have an additional opinion.

Regarding the missing function: They will be released soon. And one can see that WEA is clearly moving into a more international direction when you take i.e. a look at the speech they choose for the BAT60 first release including the manual. It is the german manual which will follow (!) So that bad time period for you out there that waited for the english speech file (DV4) is finally over.


best regards from germany

Thomas

olnico

Our Carsten ASSI system is almost ready to be integrated into the SCU protocol. As soon as this happens, the system will be compatible with Jetcat, Xycoy and very soon Projet Hornet systems. We are ready on the ASSI side, just waiting for some technical descriptions from Weatronic.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

The problem I am having is not about which switch is where, but the fact I can't reach them and I have long thin fingers, god help you if you have short fingers. I too fly thumbs on top.
Looking at the photo you think it is ok, but in reality the distances are too large. The switch at each edge on the front face looks like it is in the same position as the outer switch on my Multiplex 4000, which I can easily operate without moving my hands or thumb from their position. But with the depth and distances of the case of the BAT60 I have to make a jolly uncomfortable contortion of my hand to get a finger to it, my hand holding the Tx moves out of position and my thumb wobbles the stick. The two switches further in beside the knobs, well I can't reach them at all unless I let go of the Tx. As for the rocker switches on the top shoulder, sigh. They are so far away that my long finger can only just lie flat on them. That works if you want to rock it downwards but to rock it upwards means the switch end nearest my finger has to rise up, which it can't do because my finger is at full stretch just to reach and is lying flat down on the end that needs to rise. To be able to press the far end down once again I need to move my hand off its position holding the Tx so the Tx wobbles and once again my thumb wobbles the stick. I went back many times to the Wea stand over 2 days at JetPower and I tried and tried to like it and be able to operate it because I really wanted to buy it and come home with it, but I can't. The people that I know personally, i.e. face to face and not just on internet, who were also very interested and tried it, said just the same and have walked away from it. Others comments were "ergonomic disaster" and "no point in fancy electronics if I can't fly with it". So it is by no means just me that has a serious problem with it. At JetPower i tried the Jeti DS, the new JR 28, and lots of their switches are right where I can use them.

You must get your hands on one and try it before buying. If it works for you that's fine. But too many of us find it unuseable so you dare not buy it mail order and take such a high risk that you too will find it unuseable.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

double post

olnico

Harry, I worked on the ergonomics of the BAT 60 from the beginning with Alwin some years ago. As such, this transmitter can be considered as having been developed by professional pilots for professional pilots. I have been heavily involved in Airliner cockpit ergonomics and I am not a great fan of the Airbus philosophy.
The idea here was to develop digital control elements that would give the feeling of old school analog controls but with an amazing level of smoothness, precision and reliability.
This transmitter can be seen as a Boeing type of ergonomics on many aspects.

The initial philosophy was to start from a known excellent base. Having flown JR, Futaba, Multiplex and Grupner transmitter, I have always found the ergonomics of the JR 10x and JR12x to be the best. So, to achieve this we started with EXACTLY the same stick to switch distance and angles as the 12x.

Along the way, some dimensions were changed, but not by much, as you will see below.

First of all, the JR 12x is a square platform. The belly-to-stick distance is 104 mm, whereas the stic-to-stick distance is 104 mm.
We wanted to provide a more stable platform, so increase the overall dimensions ( to enable a larger screen as well ). The BAT 60 has got a belly-to-stick distance of 147 mm with a stick-to-stick distance of 109 mm. A littler bit less square and slightly larger.
However, one thing that did not change is the weight. The BAT 60 and JR 12x have EXACTLY the same weight ( 1260 grs ). This makes the BAT 60 a very light and very stable radio. This transmitter can be used for hours without any neck fatigue, which is not the case for all the brands.

On the picture, you can see a JR 12x and a prototype BAT 60 side by side. The stick to switch dimensions are in red, whereas the trim to switch dimensions are in green.




The position and reach of the switches is exactly the same. Only the rotary knob is a few mm away from the stick, but I do not find this a big problem since in any case the hand needs to leave the stick to operate a knob.

Now, something that I find a lot better is the trim wheels. These are positioned exactly in the axis of the stick and at a very close distance. The are digital rotary encoder types, can be pushed, and have spikes that provide tactile feedback.
I wanted a trim wheel like we had on the old Boeings. This is because back 5 years ago, Weatronic was the first in the world to release a true 4096 step servo travel system. This is still and incredible resolution although JR has catched up on this now. The benefits of having trim wheels is that one notch of rotation can be attributed to 0.014 degree deflection on the servo ( in practice, such a high precision is not required and the trim step is programmable ). At the same time, launching the wheel on one side will enable to move a lot of trim at once.

This is light years away from push buttons trims that are placed at the bottom of the transmitter.

In essence, I love the ergonomics and the philosophy of this radio. Precision, stability, light weight.

olnico

Harry, you had too many German sausages and beer at JP!

The JR 10x, JR12x, JR 28 and BAT 60 have the switches EXACLTY at the same distance. Check my post above.
What might have been the problem at JP, is that one of the radio was equipped with the long sticks which are not meant to be used with thumbs up.

olnico

BTW:

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Not the one I tried, the sticks felt fine for length with thumbs on top, sticks no longer than I have on any other Tx.
My fingers don't lie to me, despite your measurements my fingers easily get to the switches on JR, Multiplex, Jeti, Taranis etc. They don't with the BAT60, and since several other people have said the same to me about the BAT60 being unuseable because they couldn't get to the switches ..........
And none of what you say deals with the problem with the rocker switches.
Also I had the same problem with one of the beta testers' Tx which has the short sticks.

Anyway, it's up to the individual user, it doesn't work for me and some others, if it works for you then good luck and have fun with it!

That's very true! Isn't that half the point of going?

olnico

Yep!!!

olnico

Well, these are the same switches, at the same distance, in the same plan and same angle. Not sure what's the magic behind this.

I am working on 3D designing different rocker switches and side sliders for alternative ergonomics.

roger.alli

Thanks Thomas,

I really do love your attitude and enthusiasm for Weatronics. Your posts here are very much appreciated.. Actually this thread is a rare example of how to have an adult discussion on RCU, even if we don’t all agree on everything..

A few months ago I emailed both Gasper and Jens and asked them about this. I don’t have the replies to hand, but it was not positive.. Jens said that all their resources were on getting the Bat series out, and would likely look at this in the future.

You must understand that when Wetronics says “soon to follow” their past performance would suggest the actual release date could be several years away!!

Roger

roger.alli

And Oli, Thank you for taking the time to measure and compare the switch distances. This gives me a bit more confidence.. I would love to get my hands on one, but I doubt any “demo” units will make it to Australia any time soon.

I have a couple of questions..

Regards the Carsten ASSI system. I don’t understand what you mean by “SCU Protocol” Is this to be integrated into the Wetronics telemetry?
The Carsten system looks to be a very capable system. However, Weatronics is a very powerful telemetry package, with more than enough capacity to easily incorporate the Xicoy ECU data. As I see it, all that is required, is for the two companies to share their coding, and for Weatonics to add some software.. (as Futaba and Jeti have already done with Xicoy and others). Perhaps I have this wrong, but I really can’t see the need for a second telemetry system running alongside the Weatronics.

Thomas stated above that the Bat 60 does not yet have data recording.. Is this really true?? I find that hard to believe. Data recording is the main reason I use Weatronics.. Comparing log files is a useful, and entertaining activity for me. ( I am such a nerd). It would be a massive leap backwards to lose this function. It is especially useful for testing antenna locations..

Again, thanks again for everyones input.

Roger

olnico

The SCU plug is the 3 pins connector at the back of the Weatronic receivers. It handles a serial bus. As soon as we get the description of that bus, we can interface the ASSI module to the Weatronic line of receivers.

Integrating an ECU data protocol needs a micro controller that is not included in the receiver. This is the purpose of the MUX box. The ASSI module is just another kind of MUX box that handles ECU communications. The telemetry part of things would be taken care of by the Weatronic system, just like when you plug an ASSI module on a Futaba radio for example.
Given the schedule the Weatronic team has, it would take quite a long time before we see then developing an equivalent of an ASSI system in-house. We have that already running. So it is a big time saver for them.

olnico

Not exactly. The transmitter logs all the data on a SD card just like before. Data logging is implemented and functional. However the file produced cannot be read on Gigacontrol. This is because the transmitter is using a new type of Gigacontrol.
The transmitter is a Wifi server and sets up a network when started. Any wifi enabled device can log on the network and connect to the server ( the radio ). The BAT controller page is a web service that runs from html language. It can be open by any device through Chrome, Safari, Firefox, Internet Explorer including on a phone.
Basically, you can perform all the functions of Gigacontrol from your phone at the field, including programming the servo curves and reading the log files. The log analysing part of things is going to be A LOT more advanced than previously with incremental analysis over time of several logs.
The problem here is that this web based server function is not yet released. It is coming as number two on the priority list of Weatronic. Number one being the support of the Gizmo receivers.


So, to resume: Datalog is up and running, data analysing is not available yet.

David Gladwin

Firstly let me agree wholeheartedly with Oli, the JR 10x and 12x are just about perfection, I can reach everything without leaving the sticks, except for the rotary controls so positioning the BAT sticks accordingly seems an excellent basis. I don't yet have my production BAT 60, I will collect from Berlin next month, hopefully more firmware will be installed, but I doubt I will fly it until the data recording is active, as DR is one of the great strengths of the Wea system. UK guys can then see and fly my own BAT 60 (installed in a PST Reaction) and decide for themselves. I hope to have a synopsis in the Jan RCJI.

Just a possibility which MIGHT explains Harry's point about accessibility:

The BAT 60 case IS larger than a 12x so perhaps he was holding the Tx nearer to its C of G, ie further back from the sticks. No doubt at JP he was not using a neck strap and was holding the case where it felt balanced. Possibly.

But that brings me to another point, which I raised with Ralf at JP. The JR 10s and 12s and other similar radios all look like the quality instruments they are, my 10s and 12s still look pretty much as good as the time they were delivered. Despite the hugely capable electronics inside the BAT ( I particularly like the battery system) case it does not say "BUY ME" it looks, with its painted case, rather bland, even my wife commented on my Beta test one that it looked rather cheap. I suggested to Ralf that perhaps an adhesive label, maybe in polished aluminium and blue, rather like those around the 10x and 12x switches, but covering the whole upper face of the TX case could make it look far more attractive. Combine a really attractive facia with the superb screen and we will have something that looks really good, after all we eat with our eyes as much as our stomachs ! Presentation may not be everything but it IS important and I really believe that this should and could be improved, and it would be easy and quite inexpensive to do.

I saw your post re leather embellishments etc. on the case but I don't think this is the way to go, leather etc would soon look grubby, and further detract from the appearance.

As for the electronics, now that I have the manual they looks really superb and I will experiment with the simulator when I am away on holiday next week with time to spare !

All that said I have just about finished another season of jet flying with more flights than ever before all with Weatronic equipped models, again everything has worked perfectly. New models for next season include my SkyGate Hawk, refurbished FC Mig 29, Paritech DG303, PST Panther, all Weatronics equipped.

Regards,

David.