David Gladwin

I hear your comments about the gyros but I am using them extensively without any problems whatever.

At the moment I have 9 jets using a variety of Weatronic receivers varying from a Smart 8 gyro 1 in a little L39 with Wren44 power, 2 BobCats, PST Reaction a BVM F86 and a BVM F4 with Micro 12 gyro 111, two Airworld Hawks and PST Revision with 12-22s. All have the gyros assigned to nose steering and rudder plus ailerons. and never a problem. However, all receivers are soft(ish) mounted using foam pads and held in place with rubber bands. Perhaps this mounting technique is what is giving me perfect results, don't know but it's possible.

David.

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Thanks David,

That's interesting.... all my receivers are "relatively" hard mounted. The micro's are mounted with velcro and secured with a velcro strap. The 12-22's are mounted using the rubber mounts that Wea has available specifically for that receiver. Maybe this is the cause although, Harry had the issue even when he hand held the receiver within his airframe. I haven't tried that.

Mike

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

No, it's just pure luck of the draw David. In my Sabre the Rx is mounted the same way as yours, on foam and held in place by bands. I finally proved it beyond doubt by holding the Rx in my hand so it was not touching any part of the model, and at the trouble rpm the gyros kicked and quivered. The mounting is not relevant, it's not mechanical vibration of the gyro, the sound wave gets inside the gyro. It was Weatronic that was very quick to spot from the logs that all axis gyro numbers kicked at certain throttle % and it was Weatronic who said it is acoustic interference. It's simply luck that determines if your particular engine is making the right noises or not. The old ACT piezo gyro that I installed instead has worked faultlessly.

The kick that the gyro gives to the servos is very big, although I had the gain down low the servos were jolted to absolute max travel or beyond during ground tests. When they kicked in the air the roll rate was faster than if I had moved full stick, it was as if the model flicked. The gyro mechanism gets a relatively huge kick from the sound wave, thinks the rate of roll is enormous and responds with a massive output even though the gain is low. Giga control shows the rotation sensed by each gyro and we could see in the figures there that the gyros were sensing an extreme but non-existent rotation, which is what they kicked against.

Keep using the Wea gyros in more different models/engines and one day you will get a gyro kick too David! Weatronic offered no solution, no repair, no fix etc. That makes clear that they think there is nothing they can do about it, Wea did not say there is any fault in the equipment I have, so it is going to happen in some other installations. And now Mike has proved that, in several models.

My Lightning has shown no problem with the gyro but now with Mike's experience in addition to mine it means I can no longer trust them.
Hmm, cables you can't trust, gyros you can't trust, it's not good.

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

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Oli,
What is in the kit besides the adapter? Is the adapter just passing through the PPM signal or does it make 16 channels available?

patf

My Feedback: (4)

Oli

Wondering the same thing as Sid. I am looking at the taranis as an interim radio and was planning to use my existing JR set on it. Is there something significantly different that my existing JR set?

richbran

I have from one 12-22 only the top axis gyro in use for nose wheel steering during braking. My elev down is the gain control: from about 25% down elev it kicks is till full gain at full down elev. The gyro itself becomes active only when selecting gear down.

RPM is of course low during roll out and maybe an occasional glitch I would even never notice when braking.

Anyway, reading all this makes me halt my soon to be started experiments with the gyros on my Pirotti Tuono (IQ 180). Was to be a nice feature for those extremely turbulent days, to smooth out some rocking movements on final, but the rock steady Tuono really does not need it. If You have a plane that really NEEDS a gyro, the design or building sucks.

One word of caution with the ACT fuzzy logic gyro: I nearly lost a model with one. Sooner or later we all switch on a model first before switching on the TX. The ACT does not start up then and I only noticed it because I rigorously always do a control check: BOTH ailerons no response.
Sometime later a friend of mine occurred the same but did not check his controls before T/O and had an interesting flight w/o ailerons but managed to get it back on rudder only.

I sold all my ACT stuff, never again. Btw, the ACT company itself is vanishing from the scene, I don't hear or see them anymore.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

You should mention that to Boeing, Airbus, McDonnell Douglas, BAE systems etc, they will be most interested to hear your theory. Swept wing jets have all had yaw dampers, i.e. rudder gyros, from decades ago long before fly-by-wire, to stop Dutch rolling that their designers, who suck obviously, couldn't design out!

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

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Pat,
I have not flown my Taranis in a jet model yet. I have the Taranis flying in a 1/4 Scale J3 Cub, a Cosmis Wind, and a foamy P-47. I am very pleased with the radio so far except the stick centering is too soft for me and two friends who also fly the Taranis. We have replaced the plastic stick centering arm with a metal arm (hand made) and stiffer springs. The sticks now have a positive metal to metal click at center.

Oli is aware of the stick mods we have done. I understand Oli has the Taranis flying in a drone project but I haven't received any more details about his results.

I am going to do some data logging with the 1/4 Scale Cub since it is large enough to fly it out to test the RF link better. I have the N2 speed sensor in the Cosmic Wind and very happy with the voice air speed annoucements.

Sid
P.s. You may know my son, Brian, who flies jets in Dallas area.

_Dutchy_

I would have believed you even without the CCTV evidence
Not going to help you much anymore at this moment but I also have these kind of boots, I learned in the past to A) lace them extra around the boot in case the laces where too long, B) Just cut of the extra length or C) Tie enough knots in it to avoid the big loops.
Putting the excess in your boots is an option but it does annoy on long hiking trips.
But as said, not going to help you now.
You are right that even simply walking can get a man down.

You can do my leads as soon as you feel well enough to get out of bed and from the moment the Morfine or similar stuff doesn't affect your soldering capabilities (otherwise it wouldn't help me to get more reliable leads or worse you might burn down your bed ).
My holidays will just start next week and I think I should have one or 2 fairly reliable 13cm leads somewhere.

Just take care Alan!

And at moments like these you are happy to have a travel insurance!

BR.
Paul

fireblade5437

Paul

That made me smile :-)
When I solder your leads I promise they will be 100% no way would I let one out that's not soldered properly!

Yes if someone keeps bending lead back and forwards yes it will eventually break the leads but if you treat them with respect then the soldered version will be fine. I remember when I had my lead fail I only had to put slight pressure on the cable side wards and leds on/off etc also I melted the insulation away and all four individual cores were intact so wires were not broken which only left bad connection with the two 'V' blades

Like I have said I will make as soon as I can get up but I will solder when I am not under the influence :-)

Also after watching direct from HDD the video I can see that when my leg was horizontal my foot/boot was still planted no wonder my bones gave way!

Alan

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Well, that one's busted!

fireblade5437

Harry

Look how long we waited for voice file but we eventually got it! Well for DV4 etc
I know guys have waited a long time for Bat 60 but by now it's got to be closer to being available :-)
I think they need to start selling this year and not get it going into 2015!
Alan

patf

My Feedback: (4)

Sid

Yes i know Brian. I am looking to do the same you are, try it out in all my non-jet stuff just to get a feel for it. I have a few old JR units i was going to review if they could become spring donors of some kind.

_Dutchy_

They still got a few days left

But God only knows if they find something else to add to this BAT6X delaying the launch again.....

richbran

HarryC,

You are right for full size a/c, I should have said models.
Not only yaw dampers but Airbus alike planes as all modern fighters completely rely on gyros, accelerometers and multiple computers. As they are aerodynamically either fully unstable or only relaxed stable.

For models it is nice to iron out some turbulence induced movements, just to fly it more "realistically".
That is if You are not into multicopters, which rely also on completely artificial stability and control.

sidgates

My Feedback: (2)

================================================== =
Pat,
One friend bought some springs at Ace Hardware that fit and I have a set of Futaba heavy duty ones that fit.

roger.alli

Alan.... You need to take up a safer hobby.. Perhaps wingsuit base jumping!!

I have had complete success with Wea Gyros in three turbine powered models. All with micro Rx's. These were installed and flown prior to Harry having an issue, so I had no reason to suspect the Wea gyros back then. Now I would tend to be a bit more careful setting up a new model..

Because this acoustic interference issue that Harry discovered is quite rare, I suspect it is a combination of conditions that create the interference, and probably does not affect most installations.. I will continue to use them in my new models installs, but will thoroughly test, looking specifically for this problem.

The internal gyros is one of the very nice features of Weatronics.. It would be a great shame not to have it available. Using external gyros greatly increases the complication and clutter of an installation, both hardware and software wise..

It would be nice if Weatronics gave us some definitive information on this issue. Even if it was just to admit the problem and advise of a work around or test procedure.. But I guess that they are too busy debugging the BAT 60.

In the meantime the competitors get closer!

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

I'm glad to hear you are having success with the gyro's Roger. I can't believe that I'm having what should be a rare occurrence in 3 different jets. I'd like to get to the bottom of it as I really do like the Weatronic system and have so much confidence in the RF link.

Regards,

Mike

roger.alli

Sorry Mike I didn't read your previous
post correctly. I did not realise it was three different jets with 3 different Rxs. This would suggest that the acoustic problem is either more common than we thought, or it is something peculiar to your installations.
Keep us posted if you find anything.

Roger

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Sadly I didn't keep the email but one of the Wea techs told me he had suffered acoustic interference on the Wea gyro in one of his models !!! If Wea technical staff suffer the problem, we all can.

My gut feeling is that they are not using suitable gyros.

This video shows the difference between higher and lower quality gyros. All gyros are not the same! Note how the lower quality one reacts and keeps oscillating for ages after a slight tap yet the higher quality one doesn't react at all. http://videos.analog.com/video/produ...MS-Gyroscopes/

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

If your model has been using the Wea gyros and has not suffered the interference, then it is unlikely to do so in the future. The glitching on my Sabre became evident pretty quickly in flight once I switched the gyros on and could then be replicated on the ground every time. There were 3 throttle points that caused interference, two caused the controls to shake and one caused massive glitching more than normal full travel. So if your engine/model combination is going to create the interference, it will probably show up fairly quickly, if it hasn't by now then it probably isn't going to. If you want to be sure you can test it on the ground by slowly moving the throttle up and down and watching whichever control surfaces the gyro is enabled on. If they remain rock steady then that model is probably ok.

My Lightning has not had any hint of trouble.

However you will appreciate that both Mike and I have experienced some very hairy moments due to the Wea gyros and feel very reluctant to risk using them again.

If you have had no trouble with them you won't feel the same risk, until some day in the future a new model on its test flight suddenly inverts itself as you throttle back a bit on final approach to land and the engine passes through the rpm that causes the interference.

richbran

Now that I read it can be duplicated on the ground it would be interesting if someone could catch it on video and drop it in YT.

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Rich, I'll try to get some video of it by the weekend.

Mike

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Rich, swept wing planes had yaw dampers. i.e. rudder gyros, decades before modern unstable planes. The problem of Dutch rolling is a fact of life with swept wings, model or full size, and is not due to bad design or building. Some planes, models included, have Dutch rolling and that looks bad on a model. Gyros are the only way to stop it. It's not about turbulence, bad design, or bad building.

luv2flyrc

My Feedback: (6)

Bat 60 Update: I just received the following email from Weatronic as I have had a Bat 60 on pre-order. It seems they are now available for purchase but, there are many key items missing from the software.

"First of all we thank you so much for your patience and your trust! We really appreciate it a lot! The hardware components of the new radio got finished quite some time ago. Nevertheless the customer wishes took much more time as expected!

Now we would like to inform you about the latest development of the new weatronic handheld radio BAT 60.

So far the transmitter is capable of all major functions and there is a very intuitive “setup wizard” to add new models. Many modelers already got an amazing impression and feeling about the intuitive weatronic interface structure at fairs, workshops and flight shows. They like it a lot and so we are sure that you will like it too! The radio meanwhile got approved by the USA (FCC), Canada (IC) and European Union and is the first radio which fully complies to latest ETSI standards, including the “Listen before Talk” (LBT). In other words, the BAT 60 2.4GHz transmission system is, like you are used to, reliable and approved.

Anyway some functions are not finally tested yet! At the time being we are completing and approving these features. As soon as they are available, they will be added with a software update free of charge. The following features are not cleared yet:

speech output
Gizmo receiver
Gyro setup
Wi-Fi setup
„setup wizard“ for helicopters
„Look and Find“ option
teacher-student mode
data logging
model pictures assignment
Bluetooth as an option

Of course we are aware that some weatronic users who already pre-ordered the radio are extremely curious of getting the BAT 60 in their hands. So we offer the opportunity to get the radio even before the official start of sales. Considering the current state of the radio you have the chance to buy it now exclusively. As soon as remaining features are ready and proper tested, you will get them of course automatically via software update."

Mike