Weatronic 2.4 RF diagnostic tool
08-01-2014, 01:34 AM
#2426
Forgive Paul and "crap", You would be frustrated too considering the amount of work and money he put into the issue.
I offered Paul to come by and put his model on my equipment and see what happens. We live in a small country, but even that can have places being far apart.
The SD card issue is real, me too had to wait close to ONE minute before the 12-22 shut down. The next time, all OK again.
Just spoke to one very angry German who is sueing WEA for losing a costly glider (plus a Gizmo) to an inflight restart that took too long and the model went in. 14k € Totaled. He claims that it is safer to fly w/o a card. I guess that means only the 12-22 or Gizmo, not the card in the DV3/4.
One could consider it, but then there is nothing to review after an incident.
I offered Paul to come by and put his model on my equipment and see what happens. We live in a small country, but even that can have places being far apart.
The SD card issue is real, me too had to wait close to ONE minute before the 12-22 shut down. The next time, all OK again.
Just spoke to one very angry German who is sueing WEA for losing a costly glider (plus a Gizmo) to an inflight restart that took too long and the model went in. 14k € Totaled. He claims that it is safer to fly w/o a card. I guess that means only the 12-22 or Gizmo, not the card in the DV3/4.
One could consider it, but then there is nothing to review after an incident.
08-01-2014, 01:44 AM
#2427
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This is not a good trend - first we had the cable issue, then more evidence about the gyros causing control problems, now revelations that the memory card can cause crashes. I thought this was supposed to be a high quality system?
08-01-2014, 04:11 AM
#2428
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Forgive Paul and "crap", You would be frustrated too considering the amount of work and money he put into the issue.
I offered Paul to come by and put his model on my equipment and see what happens. We live in a small country, but even that can have places being far apart.
The SD card issue is real, me too had to wait close to ONE minute before the 12-22 shut down. The next time, all OK again.
Just spoke to one very angry German who is sueing WEA for losing a costly glider (plus a Gizmo) to an inflight restart that took too long and the model went in. 14k € Totaled. He claims that it is safer to fly w/o a card. I guess that means only the 12-22 or Gizmo, not the card in the DV3/4.
One could consider it, but then there is nothing to review after an incident.
I offered Paul to come by and put his model on my equipment and see what happens. We live in a small country, but even that can have places being far apart.
The SD card issue is real, me too had to wait close to ONE minute before the 12-22 shut down. The next time, all OK again.
Just spoke to one very angry German who is sueing WEA for losing a costly glider (plus a Gizmo) to an inflight restart that took too long and the model went in. 14k € Totaled. He claims that it is safer to fly w/o a card. I guess that means only the 12-22 or Gizmo, not the card in the DV3/4.
One could consider it, but then there is nothing to review after an incident.
I'll spend some time, again, to run tests, change things, exchange patch leads, exclude things, perhaps shoot some movies to put on this site to show you and I might even consider spending a whole day driving up to Richard and do the same there.
After that long of a time those 2 or 3 days don't matter that much anymore.
Regarding the German guy sueing Wea;
If all of above that doesn't bring any relief I'll send my logfiles to Jens / Weatronic again but with a closing date on offering a solution or reply.
If that doesn't help I have enough ground to sue them for non conformity art7.17 of our law.
But we aren't at that point yet, let's see if I can find a silly reason, all my own fault, which makes aggrevated posts like mine totally uncalled for.
08-01-2014, 04:59 AM
#2429
I did mentioned the court issue, but the info is from one side only. To discuss this in depth here would not be fair to Wea. It is the gentleman's claim as being the cause. That's about it, more can't be said about it.
Will be a long road as far as my knowledge reaches of people sewing model aircraft companies. The proof will be extremely difficult.
As stated many times before, the system works fine for me flying several large planes like jets, tugs and gliders, with nearly all of the type of receivers. Some flights are at my sight range, which is still very good. In summertime I make 3-5 hours of flight time per week.
As I am currently converting from 3 sets FC28/DV3 to 3 sets FX30/DV4 I use 6 transmitters at the time, there are no issues that makes me feel to leave the system. BTW I use three sets, as my son flies many times with me, and one set is stationed abroad at my holiday address. My 11 Year old faithful Swiss Trainer tug of 24 kgs/150cc engine (has been flown in the UK as well) has made a few thousand of its estimated 6000 tug flights on WEA since converting in the winter of 2009. Only one hiccup there, that was most likely caused by one FX30. If have had all FX30s modified since. (removed the stick cable connectors and wiring was soldered, a well known shortcoming of the FX30.)
The only really outstanding issue for me is that the IAS probe connected to a MuxBox does not work as it should, it does not "null" when booting the system so my start speed is already 60-70 kms/h. Although my first remark about it was a Year ago, it is still unresolved. Jens honestly confessed all development force is used for the BAT's. I don't sleep a minute less knowing that.
It's a hobby for me, but I want it as safe as possible due to my large models. And with my current experience with WEA it is safe enough. 100% safe no one manufacturer can give, and if You doubt that, google with: 2.4 ghz jammer.
(if You want to continue sleep good, don't read it....)
Will be a long road as far as my knowledge reaches of people sewing model aircraft companies. The proof will be extremely difficult.
As stated many times before, the system works fine for me flying several large planes like jets, tugs and gliders, with nearly all of the type of receivers. Some flights are at my sight range, which is still very good. In summertime I make 3-5 hours of flight time per week.
As I am currently converting from 3 sets FC28/DV3 to 3 sets FX30/DV4 I use 6 transmitters at the time, there are no issues that makes me feel to leave the system. BTW I use three sets, as my son flies many times with me, and one set is stationed abroad at my holiday address. My 11 Year old faithful Swiss Trainer tug of 24 kgs/150cc engine (has been flown in the UK as well) has made a few thousand of its estimated 6000 tug flights on WEA since converting in the winter of 2009. Only one hiccup there, that was most likely caused by one FX30. If have had all FX30s modified since. (removed the stick cable connectors and wiring was soldered, a well known shortcoming of the FX30.)
The only really outstanding issue for me is that the IAS probe connected to a MuxBox does not work as it should, it does not "null" when booting the system so my start speed is already 60-70 kms/h. Although my first remark about it was a Year ago, it is still unresolved. Jens honestly confessed all development force is used for the BAT's. I don't sleep a minute less knowing that.
It's a hobby for me, but I want it as safe as possible due to my large models. And with my current experience with WEA it is safe enough. 100% safe no one manufacturer can give, and if You doubt that, google with: 2.4 ghz jammer.
(if You want to continue sleep good, don't read it....)
08-01-2014, 06:59 AM
#2430
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It's great for my fellow members of my club which logged many thermal hours last weekend, it nice to hear succes stories about Wea.
Really, I hope that will never change for you and I do grant you all that joy.
But on the other hands it annoys me more and more to see perfect weather conditions but being grounded by hundreds of euro's worth of Wea stuff not performing as it should.
As said, I have 2 FX30's now acting up.
But let me run some more tests before starting a riot or setting things on fire.
08-01-2014, 07:46 AM
#2431
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9H6WZoubLw&feature=youtu.be
OK, time to set aside the frustrations, not focussing onto WEA the company and its personel itself and return to the more academic approach.
In above vid you can hear my problem.
I admit that shooting a vid from behind the prop is so wrong but from ~20 secs you can turn the volume back on.
You will see my TX and you will hear my motor hicking up.
Just checked the log file and those hick ups coincide with the 136/168 errors.
This FX30, with the latest model Fasst adapter now shows the error codes together with these hick ups:
OK, my former FX30 had same hick ups but other read outs:
The trained eye will see:
A) No failsafe in the first read outs against failsafe in the lower ones.
B) Hickups coincide with the motor running in the above read outs.
Now my wiFe wants me to have dinner so I better run.
But after that I will bind this TX with another E-model and run the tests again.
From that starting point I will deduct pausible causes to form an objective opinion.
And somewhere I really hope it's just me or my models goofing up now and there is nothing to blame to WEA.
That would at least mean things are OK.
The story continues
Well I be darned.....
Left the TX and RX on during dinner, just to see what happens without a motor connected:
Next test:
Disconnect E-sensor, connect motor and repeat the test with a running motor.
Be back in 45 mins or so.
Short sub total:
Results of running the motor without using the E-sensor revealed no more hick ups or 136/168 errors.
That's already something.
Still some messages of frequency hopping which shouldn't be there me thinks.
I'll charge another battery and run it for a longer period.
Hmmm, if this is correct the E-sensor could crash your plane. It's a fairly new one though since WEA already mentioned that sensor earlier.
Guess I'll order another one at Stephan Merz just to be sure.
Perhaps exchanging sensors 2 times a year is supposed to be regular maintenance just like the patch leads?
Back later
Decided to change the route a lil bit.
Will bind and install another E-glider (simple HAI2 flying wing with just a vario and no other gimmicks) onto this FX30.
Run some tests at home and if the results are without the 136/168 errors I'll simply go out flying tomorrow.
If that works out well I can continue with my 3,5 mtr K8B, can have that one towed or to be used with the electrical elevator.
In the meantime awaiting the new E-sensor from SM modellbau and Alans patch leads to continue on this glider to see if the 136/168 errors originate from just the E-sensor.
By the way, Since Alan told us that the patch lead wires are arrested in V-shaped contacts I took a small screwdriver and pushed the wires a little bit harder into these contacts.
Who knows if it helps.
When that all has been done I'll run the same tests with the 'old' FX-30 to see if I can replicate the framedekodierung errors (which then can be related to that FX30).
Takes some time but at least we know things for sure then.
In above vid you can hear my problem.
I admit that shooting a vid from behind the prop is so wrong but from ~20 secs you can turn the volume back on.
You will see my TX and you will hear my motor hicking up.
Just checked the log file and those hick ups coincide with the 136/168 errors.
This FX30, with the latest model Fasst adapter now shows the error codes together with these hick ups:
OK, my former FX30 had same hick ups but other read outs:
The trained eye will see:
A) No failsafe in the first read outs against failsafe in the lower ones.
B) Hickups coincide with the motor running in the above read outs.
Now my wiFe wants me to have dinner so I better run.
But after that I will bind this TX with another E-model and run the tests again.
From that starting point I will deduct pausible causes to form an objective opinion.
And somewhere I really hope it's just me or my models goofing up now and there is nothing to blame to WEA.
That would at least mean things are OK.
The story continues
Well I be darned.....
Left the TX and RX on during dinner, just to see what happens without a motor connected:
Next test:
Disconnect E-sensor, connect motor and repeat the test with a running motor.
Be back in 45 mins or so.
Short sub total:
Results of running the motor without using the E-sensor revealed no more hick ups or 136/168 errors.
That's already something.
Still some messages of frequency hopping which shouldn't be there me thinks.
I'll charge another battery and run it for a longer period.
Hmmm, if this is correct the E-sensor could crash your plane. It's a fairly new one though since WEA already mentioned that sensor earlier.
Guess I'll order another one at Stephan Merz just to be sure.
Perhaps exchanging sensors 2 times a year is supposed to be regular maintenance just like the patch leads?
Back later
Decided to change the route a lil bit.
Will bind and install another E-glider (simple HAI2 flying wing with just a vario and no other gimmicks) onto this FX30.
Run some tests at home and if the results are without the 136/168 errors I'll simply go out flying tomorrow.
If that works out well I can continue with my 3,5 mtr K8B, can have that one towed or to be used with the electrical elevator.
In the meantime awaiting the new E-sensor from SM modellbau and Alans patch leads to continue on this glider to see if the 136/168 errors originate from just the E-sensor.
By the way, Since Alan told us that the patch lead wires are arrested in V-shaped contacts I took a small screwdriver and pushed the wires a little bit harder into these contacts.
Who knows if it helps.
When that all has been done I'll run the same tests with the 'old' FX-30 to see if I can replicate the framedekodierung errors (which then can be related to that FX30).
Takes some time but at least we know things for sure then.
Last edited by _Dutchy_; 08-01-2014 at 11:25 AM.
08-02-2014, 12:08 AM
#2432
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Hi Paul,
fine that you are back on the trageting track. It is no question that this anoying for your and very time consuming and thus creating some frustration. But that you use WEA shows that you principially like the system desgin. Modelling is a highly technical hobby in every aspect and things do not always run as expected out of the box. If you find the reason for your issues and a work around, you will be proud of having that mastered.
Like to hear from your next test setup.
best regards
Thomas
fine that you are back on the trageting track. It is no question that this anoying for your and very time consuming and thus creating some frustration. But that you use WEA shows that you principially like the system desgin. Modelling is a highly technical hobby in every aspect and things do not always run as expected out of the box. If you find the reason for your issues and a work around, you will be proud of having that mastered.
Like to hear from your next test setup.
best regards
Thomas
08-03-2014, 05:44 PM
#2433
Hi Roger and Paul,
just a short question: Is this phenomenon reproduceable ? So that a code developer can definately trace in this and see whats going on there ? If so, I think Wea is highly interested
in removing this issue if possible... (if this does not rely on the FX30 itself)
just a short question: Is this phenomenon reproduceable ? So that a code developer can definately trace in this and see whats going on there ? If so, I think Wea is highly interested
in removing this issue if possible... (if this does not rely on the FX30 itself)
Oh yes.. it is easily reproducible, with ver 2.5* at least. no problem. I have lots of files with this type of glitching evident, using 4 different receivers and 2 different Tx modules. Others have also experienced this reporting it here and I have found similar files with friends equipment.
Here is a shot of an actual flight of my Bandit (before I figured out what was going on)..Notice the 3 dips in the frame counts, and the blue highlighted line where frame count was Zero… on both Rxs. Scary.
And for those that have faith in the fail safe reporting function. Below are two screen shots of a bench test, 12-22 ver 2.58. The first is the Tx card version of the data. The second shot is the Rx version from the on board SD. I have configured the shots to cover exactly the same time period. i.e. we should be looking a the same data set.. This particular data set had three distinct episodes of glitching.
The Tx data version has no fail safes recorded, although the frame rates do fall a bit. You would think this was a good connection through out the time period.
The Rx version of the data shows that the system actually went into failsafe THREE times during this period, the first one at 15.43.08..
Thomas, I honestly believe this was a software bug that was addressed in Ver 2.63 It was never apparent in Ver 2.3* and I have never been able to reproduce it with Ver 2.63 my equipment has been rock solid ever since. Ver 2.5* seems to have been the culprit..
Pauls issue seems to be related to the E-sensor he is using, but it is uncannily similar.
I personally think that Weatronics have released systems into the market that have not been totally bug free. And this glitching in 2.5* was an example.
It is obvious that they limited resources and are not bothering to address several known faults in the system, (patch cables, gyros acoustics, etc.) They are putting all their effort into the new Txs.. I hope it all pays off for them.
Roger
08-04-2014, 12:09 AM
#2434
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Hi Roger,
thank you for the detailed and facts-based info on that glichting problem which is clearly noticeable. As you noticed, your issues have gone away with v2.63. That shows that Wea is doing something if they have a chance get info on an existining bug. The firmware is complex and it is very hard to test everything and every user setup. No company can claim that their software is free of bugs; if they do and it puts out a bit more than a "hello world" one can not trust them. You can do many tests before you can go on sales, (which Wea does in my opinion) but the very latest tests are done in the field by the end user with his specific setup. So what is important to me is, that I can notice a reaction by the manufacturer to given issues. Personally, I can not expect that they remove that issue immediately but in a given time. They all strongly rely on detailed user feedback about issues.
Wea is concentrating their man power on the BATxx at the moment, that is true. But small things are done by the way, see the listening module firmware (v2.70) for the DV4* or the triangle app and at least (licensed!) Apple Bluetooth support in the DV4BTa. There is moving a lot for a small company if one takes a closer look. Everone has special needs and not all can be satisfied at once. But for me it is in the end more satisfiying if a company hears me and than reacts in contrast to a big company like Futaba which does not. There was a long time when this company has shown NO interest in developing telemetry at all. That showed me much about their thinking. Only when the pressure on that thing of the whole community and the distris gets to high, they started moving. If have to take that fact into account when I want to compare Wea to the others...
The patch-cable problem (I luckily didn´t have one yet on our two mx22) is there. That is proven by some more users. This has to be redesigned, no question. Maybe that would affect the whole connection chain, including connector types and therefore may also require a change of the respective enclosures...
The problem with the gyro acoustics seems to be there but very limited. Maybe that can be fixed by using other MEMS components. BTW in the SMART8 there is an Analog Devices MEMS-Gyroskope type ADXRS610 used. I do not have a turbine yet (and maybe it would not even produce that "required" sounds), but it would be nice to see if that SMART8 Gyro 1 also shows that acoustic inteference effects... (referring to HarryC´s observation)
(PS: In my first 12-22R Gyro-II there is an 2-axis X/Y MEMS-Gyro from InvenSense fitted, type IDG300)
As you conclude Roger, I also hope that their decision pays for them. I had my hands on the BAT60 for quite a while on last PROWING and I think it will be a great alternative to the other stuff we can choose to buy from. Since tastes are different, it will not be a one-fits-all TX, but that was never intended by Wea.
best regards
Thomas
thank you for the detailed and facts-based info on that glichting problem which is clearly noticeable. As you noticed, your issues have gone away with v2.63. That shows that Wea is doing something if they have a chance get info on an existining bug. The firmware is complex and it is very hard to test everything and every user setup. No company can claim that their software is free of bugs; if they do and it puts out a bit more than a "hello world" one can not trust them. You can do many tests before you can go on sales, (which Wea does in my opinion) but the very latest tests are done in the field by the end user with his specific setup. So what is important to me is, that I can notice a reaction by the manufacturer to given issues. Personally, I can not expect that they remove that issue immediately but in a given time. They all strongly rely on detailed user feedback about issues.
Wea is concentrating their man power on the BATxx at the moment, that is true. But small things are done by the way, see the listening module firmware (v2.70) for the DV4* or the triangle app and at least (licensed!) Apple Bluetooth support in the DV4BTa. There is moving a lot for a small company if one takes a closer look. Everone has special needs and not all can be satisfied at once. But for me it is in the end more satisfiying if a company hears me and than reacts in contrast to a big company like Futaba which does not. There was a long time when this company has shown NO interest in developing telemetry at all. That showed me much about their thinking. Only when the pressure on that thing of the whole community and the distris gets to high, they started moving. If have to take that fact into account when I want to compare Wea to the others...
The patch-cable problem (I luckily didn´t have one yet on our two mx22) is there. That is proven by some more users. This has to be redesigned, no question. Maybe that would affect the whole connection chain, including connector types and therefore may also require a change of the respective enclosures...
The problem with the gyro acoustics seems to be there but very limited. Maybe that can be fixed by using other MEMS components. BTW in the SMART8 there is an Analog Devices MEMS-Gyroskope type ADXRS610 used. I do not have a turbine yet (and maybe it would not even produce that "required" sounds), but it would be nice to see if that SMART8 Gyro 1 also shows that acoustic inteference effects... (referring to HarryC´s observation)
(PS: In my first 12-22R Gyro-II there is an 2-axis X/Y MEMS-Gyro from InvenSense fitted, type IDG300)
As you conclude Roger, I also hope that their decision pays for them. I had my hands on the BAT60 for quite a while on last PROWING and I think it will be a great alternative to the other stuff we can choose to buy from. Since tastes are different, it will not be a one-fits-all TX, but that was never intended by Wea.
best regards
Thomas
Last edited by tms-ger; 08-04-2014 at 12:15 AM.
08-04-2014, 05:20 AM
#2435
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Some background info for any of you who may doubt that the acoustic interference with the gyros exists at all, or think you will be safe from it –
1. Reply from Weatronic to Larry Jolly in response to several points I raised, including the gyro acoustic interference problem “True, every MEMS sensor has to deal with that problem depending on the sensor technology”. So you have official confirmation from Wea that they acknowledge acoustic interference exists. source: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24071552&postcount=80
2. Bavarian Demon makes an acoustic suppression hood for its gyros for use with turbine engines http://www.demonaero.com/product_p/hcx_hush.htm
3. See page 3 of this document from the manufacturer of MEMS gyros which says that they raised the operating frequency of the gyros to get away from the acoustic interference suffered in consumer devices. I suspect our turbine engines are capable of generating much higher frequencies than are encountered in normal life and that might put the sound back into the range that can affect the gyros? Anyway, the main point is that it is confirmation from the gyro maker that acoustic interference is real. http://www.invensense.com/mems/gyro/documents/whitepapers/Development-of-High-Performance-High-Volume-Consumer-MEMS-Gyroscopes.pdf
1. Reply from Weatronic to Larry Jolly in response to several points I raised, including the gyro acoustic interference problem “True, every MEMS sensor has to deal with that problem depending on the sensor technology”. So you have official confirmation from Wea that they acknowledge acoustic interference exists. source: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=24071552&postcount=80
2. Bavarian Demon makes an acoustic suppression hood for its gyros for use with turbine engines http://www.demonaero.com/product_p/hcx_hush.htm
3. See page 3 of this document from the manufacturer of MEMS gyros which says that they raised the operating frequency of the gyros to get away from the acoustic interference suffered in consumer devices. I suspect our turbine engines are capable of generating much higher frequencies than are encountered in normal life and that might put the sound back into the range that can affect the gyros? Anyway, the main point is that it is confirmation from the gyro maker that acoustic interference is real. http://www.invensense.com/mems/gyro/documents/whitepapers/Development-of-High-Performance-High-Volume-Consumer-MEMS-Gyroscopes.pdf
08-04-2014, 08:36 AM
#2436
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Hi guys,
OK, back again.
First day of holidays ended in me having a horrible cold so I caughed and sneezed myself almost to dead last Saterday.
By the way, did you know your sight also suffers when you have a bad cold? And if your 2 mtr model is 300+ meters up and you get a sneeze attack you need to spend some time to find your model back in the skies
Anyway, still made 2 flights. Not that long since conditions weren't that great at our field but I needed bigger log files.
What I noticed during flight and what the logfiles show (or better said don't show):
- No problems at all !!
The set up was a simple but joy to fly Pichler HAI2 E-glider, equiped with Smart8 and LinkVario Duo connected to my 2nd FX30 with latest model Fasst adapter, DV4BT module and a standard WEA 20cm patch lead.
Just using power from the BEC and no further sensors attached.
So above log files show that this set up simply works as supposed.
In return that also shows that I had 2 issues running at the same time causing similar symptoms (136/168 errors and connection break downs).
Probable causes:
- My #1 FX30 or the first series Fasst adapter.
- The 150A E-sensor of SM modelbau.
Checking on the faulty bit of the first probable cause should be quite easy now since everything else seems to work the only 2 different items are the FX30 and the adapter.
Exchanging the current in use Fasst adapter with the 'old' adapter should tell me if this one is causing problems or not.
In case everything remains OK I can exchange the #2 FX30 with the #1 FX30 (after exchanging the adapters again to maintain a working basic condition. Since there is always he possibility that the #1 FX30 doesn't like the first series adapter).
The second probable cause takes some more time;
The log file showed 136 and 168 errors (coinciding with those motor hick ups and breaking down of signal connection) but besides that still too many Feedback / No feedback from RX, freq hopping events for my liking.
Not connecting the plugs of the sensor solved the 136/168 but the events stayed.
Since I now have taken the LinkVario out of that glider the other end of the sensor isn't connected to the WEA system anymore so I could run a test to see what the results would be when that E-sensor is taken completely out of the circuit.
If that would solve the feedback events that whole problem could be addressed completely to the used E-sensor.
Exchanging that one for a new one and running some tests again would reveal the complete story.
If the same problems occur with a new sensor we have a bigger issue.
Perhaps routing of the sensor lead could cause those problems but we will see when we get there.
Anyway, I bloody happy that I now have something which seems to be reliable again and doesn't restrict me flying anymore.
Just adding Alans leads would make the picture complete and would give me a starting point from where me trusting the WEA gear could return again.
Yes I am !!
OK, back again.
First day of holidays ended in me having a horrible cold so I caughed and sneezed myself almost to dead last Saterday.
By the way, did you know your sight also suffers when you have a bad cold? And if your 2 mtr model is 300+ meters up and you get a sneeze attack you need to spend some time to find your model back in the skies
Anyway, still made 2 flights. Not that long since conditions weren't that great at our field but I needed bigger log files.
What I noticed during flight and what the logfiles show (or better said don't show):
- No problems at all !!
The set up was a simple but joy to fly Pichler HAI2 E-glider, equiped with Smart8 and LinkVario Duo connected to my 2nd FX30 with latest model Fasst adapter, DV4BT module and a standard WEA 20cm patch lead.
Just using power from the BEC and no further sensors attached.
So above log files show that this set up simply works as supposed.
In return that also shows that I had 2 issues running at the same time causing similar symptoms (136/168 errors and connection break downs).
Probable causes:
- My #1 FX30 or the first series Fasst adapter.
- The 150A E-sensor of SM modelbau.
Checking on the faulty bit of the first probable cause should be quite easy now since everything else seems to work the only 2 different items are the FX30 and the adapter.
Exchanging the current in use Fasst adapter with the 'old' adapter should tell me if this one is causing problems or not.
In case everything remains OK I can exchange the #2 FX30 with the #1 FX30 (after exchanging the adapters again to maintain a working basic condition. Since there is always he possibility that the #1 FX30 doesn't like the first series adapter).
The second probable cause takes some more time;
The log file showed 136 and 168 errors (coinciding with those motor hick ups and breaking down of signal connection) but besides that still too many Feedback / No feedback from RX, freq hopping events for my liking.
Not connecting the plugs of the sensor solved the 136/168 but the events stayed.
Since I now have taken the LinkVario out of that glider the other end of the sensor isn't connected to the WEA system anymore so I could run a test to see what the results would be when that E-sensor is taken completely out of the circuit.
If that would solve the feedback events that whole problem could be addressed completely to the used E-sensor.
Exchanging that one for a new one and running some tests again would reveal the complete story.
If the same problems occur with a new sensor we have a bigger issue.
Perhaps routing of the sensor lead could cause those problems but we will see when we get there.
Anyway, I bloody happy that I now have something which seems to be reliable again and doesn't restrict me flying anymore.
Just adding Alans leads would make the picture complete and would give me a starting point from where me trusting the WEA gear could return again.
Yes I am !!
Last edited by _Dutchy_; 08-04-2014 at 08:41 AM.
08-04-2014, 08:50 AM
#2437
Harry C,
I haven't read the whole thread but, just for accuracy, the acoustic suppresion hood that you referenced earlier is not required with the latest firmware of the bavarianDemon Cortex.
I haven't read the whole thread but, just for accuracy, the acoustic suppresion hood that you referenced earlier is not required with the latest firmware of the bavarianDemon Cortex.
08-04-2014, 09:06 AM
#2438
Gentlemen,
I have a JR 12xMV(module version) listed for sale in the RCU market. I thought it noteworthy to mention here as it's ideal for use with the Weatronic system and compatible TX's are becoming hard to find.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemid=991405
Regards,
Mike
I have a JR 12xMV(module version) listed for sale in the RCU market. I thought it noteworthy to mention here as it's ideal for use with the Weatronic system and compatible TX's are becoming hard to find.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/market/item.cfm?itemid=991405
Regards,
Mike
08-04-2014, 09:33 AM
#2439
Paul
Maybe for trouble shooting, but otherwise forget the old adapter. I even asked Jens if it had any value for trade in and that was answered as NOT.
As I told You, the old adapter was not capable of FASST and is limited to PPM and some other exotic Futaba modulations.
BTW, for those who do not know: I too had to learn the hard way that two different types of FUTABA adapters existed, the new one says clearly FASST and carries an orange line all around the topside.
It was a choice of WEA to start building "receivers" and adapters first and therefore leaning on TX's from a wide variety of brands. It has shown that that came at a risk. Part of the technology in the chain You have no control of, nor can You know all the problems, test all those combinations and find all the bugs.
Like for my FC28: it was advertised then, I could use all modes, included PCM.
I was the one that discovered some years ago the typical FUTABA once-a-minute fail safe data train from the FC28 caused hickups in the WEA based system. So after going back to PPM, and thereby "loosing" 2 channels, that issue was resolved. Of course I reported that and I did not see any more those claims that "all" modulations could be used, not even on other TXs. Most of the time PPM is advised.
Initially that sucked because I wanted to program a jet model the classic way, on the TX. I was forced to use the WEA way of thinking, like using ONE TX "channel" for aileron, ONE for flaps and ONE for the dual elevators. Routing/dividing all the commands for the respective servos inside the RX via the software. And mixing signals like ail/flap, flap/ail and flap/elev.
Only from that time I really started to appreciate the WEA system, discarding of all my (programmable) Y-cables, programmable Power boxes and not having to program servos. (anyone also tried to match two HITEC servos with a HITEC programmer?
)
Nowadays I use the TX programming possibilities as little as possible and I got quite experienced using GC.
Maybe for trouble shooting, but otherwise forget the old adapter. I even asked Jens if it had any value for trade in and that was answered as NOT.
As I told You, the old adapter was not capable of FASST and is limited to PPM and some other exotic Futaba modulations.
BTW, for those who do not know: I too had to learn the hard way that two different types of FUTABA adapters existed, the new one says clearly FASST and carries an orange line all around the topside.
It was a choice of WEA to start building "receivers" and adapters first and therefore leaning on TX's from a wide variety of brands. It has shown that that came at a risk. Part of the technology in the chain You have no control of, nor can You know all the problems, test all those combinations and find all the bugs.
Like for my FC28: it was advertised then, I could use all modes, included PCM.
I was the one that discovered some years ago the typical FUTABA once-a-minute fail safe data train from the FC28 caused hickups in the WEA based system. So after going back to PPM, and thereby "loosing" 2 channels, that issue was resolved. Of course I reported that and I did not see any more those claims that "all" modulations could be used, not even on other TXs. Most of the time PPM is advised.
Initially that sucked because I wanted to program a jet model the classic way, on the TX. I was forced to use the WEA way of thinking, like using ONE TX "channel" for aileron, ONE for flaps and ONE for the dual elevators. Routing/dividing all the commands for the respective servos inside the RX via the software. And mixing signals like ail/flap, flap/ail and flap/elev.
Only from that time I really started to appreciate the WEA system, discarding of all my (programmable) Y-cables, programmable Power boxes and not having to program servos. (anyone also tried to match two HITEC servos with a HITEC programmer?
)Nowadays I use the TX programming possibilities as little as possible and I got quite experienced using GC.
08-04-2014, 10:25 AM
#2440
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As I told You, the old adapter was not capable of FASST and is limited to PPM and some other exotic Futaba modulations.
BTW, for those who do not know: I too had to learn the hard way that two different types of FUTABA adapters existed, the new one says clearly FASST and carries an orange line all around the topside.
BTW, for those who do not know: I too had to learn the hard way that two different types of FUTABA adapters existed, the new one says clearly FASST and carries an orange line all around the topside.
I think you don't get what I'm trying to say here.
I don't want to trade any adapter in, I want to use it since I have got 2 kinds of Weatronic Fasst adapters
As said before, Wea has got at least 2 series of the Fasst adapter.
If you look at the backside of the adapter it's flat except for 2 places. 1 of those houses the connectors to connect with the pins coming out of your TX and there is one hollow (smaller rectangular) which is empty.
If you look into that second one and the bottom of the hollow is completely/cleanly flat then you have one of the first series (an older one so to speak).
In case you see a little dot in the middle (like a plastic molding point) than you have got one of the latest series.
^^ Made some pictures to show what I meant.
Do you see the dot in the middle of the hollow of the adapter with the CE-marking at it's back?
(Die ene met die CE sticker op de rug is de nieuwe, als je in die holte kijkt zie je een spikkel zitten a la spuitgiet aanhechting. Die andere met vuilnisbak erop is helemaal netjes glad in de holte.)
I recently asked them since I have the feeling that the original Fasst adapters could work for a wider array of Fasst transmitters than the latest ones.
And more important, in the past you could buy 'a Fasst adapter', now you got to choose between multiple Fasst adapters depending of TX model.
But not sure though, could also be that the number of Futaba TX's compatible to be converted simply has increased.
Like for my FC28: it was advertised then, I could use all modes, included PCM.
I was the one that discovered some years ago the typical FUTABA once-a-minute fail safe data train from the FC28 caused hickups in the WEA based system. So after going back to PPM, and thereby "loosing" 2 channels, that issue was resolved. Of course I reported that and I did not see any more those claims that "all" modulations could be used, not even on other TXs. Most of the time PPM is advised.
I was the one that discovered some years ago the typical FUTABA once-a-minute fail safe data train from the FC28 caused hickups in the WEA based system. So after going back to PPM, and thereby "loosing" 2 channels, that issue was resolved. Of course I reported that and I did not see any more those claims that "all" modulations could be used, not even on other TXs. Most of the time PPM is advised.
Until a certain software update fully happy with it but then what you described occured.
Only PPM was supported so making a 7-channel TX out of it in an instance.
As you fly gliders as well you can run out of channels quite fast when you drive e.g. separate flaps, ailerons, rudder, elevator, motor (ESC) and a vario.
That was the reason why I changed to the FX30 Fasst. Still lost some channels but enough left and with GC you can program the rest.
Last edited by _Dutchy_; 08-04-2014 at 03:23 PM. Reason: added an extra picture
08-04-2014, 10:52 AM
#2441
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The patch-cable problem (I luckily didn´t have one yet on our two mx22) is there. That is proven by some more users. This has to be redesigned, no question. Maybe that would affect the whole connection chain, including connector types and therefore may also require a change of the respective enclosures...
If I remember correctly some Multiplex transmitters had the patch lead to come out of the top of the TX through a hole which had to be made, then you decrease the chance of bumping the wire a lot.
But th respond on this part of your reply; You said "This has to be redesigned".
I remember the introduction of Jens Ackermann at Weatronic.
All members of the German forums where happy since Alwin couldn't deal with it all by him self anymore and he got lost in all issues.
This is understandable, at a certain point a company can grow that much that more people are needed.
At that moment people were already complaining heavily about these patch leads.
Jens promised at that moment that it would get their priority, if you have problems please let them know and you will get new leads blablabla but most important that they would work on a solution to this eminent danger.
Unfortunately we all have learned by now that priority at Weatronic means "somewhere between next Christmas and the moment a new Jesus will be born". Just as the BAT TX has their priority
In my last email to Wea I remembered Jens to this conversation since that conversation took place 5 years ago!
Told him "Wea hat schon vor 5 Jahre zugesagt die Kabel zu ändern aber bis jetzt sind diese Kabel noch immer Käse!"
You as a German should be able to clearly understand this.
They have made so many empty promisses and excuses, and that part just annoys me a lot.
I didn't buy Wea to figure the remaining 5% out myself to get/keep it running properly.
I'm not burning down the company, just simply expressing my feelings.
08-14-2014, 12:05 AM
#2443
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Hello to all weatronic user, followers and anyone else
I have send a happy Hello at the Weatronic Support Forum and get from HarryC the info that here are the moust weatronic users. So i say here also Hello:
My Name is Jens Ackermann. I am the Manager of the Service Department of weatronic. Now i have found the Time to read and write in this Forum.
My mother tongue is German, so it can be that my grammar or my writing art is not perfect. I hope you can excuse this. I will try to support you at all your technical Questions. Also i do writing since end of 2012 the new German Manuals. My colleague Reinhard Vallant write the English Version / translate them. If you do not understand some things or the Translation is in "not good English" please tell me. So we can improve it. I know many Manuals are old or not in English written. I will update them, but it need Time. So please excuse this also when it take some Time.
I do the Repairs of our Products, so if you have a item for Checkup oder Service after Crash you can send it to me. Please contact me befor you send it. Then i can explain what to do that the Parcel will be edited by the German Customs.
So, if you have Questions, need some explanations about GigaControl write me, you can send me a Mail.
Kind regards from Berlin / Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Berlin
Jens Ackermann
Service Manager / Leiter der Serviceabteilung
I have send a happy Hello at the Weatronic Support Forum and get from HarryC the info that here are the moust weatronic users. So i say here also Hello:
My Name is Jens Ackermann. I am the Manager of the Service Department of weatronic. Now i have found the Time to read and write in this Forum.
My mother tongue is German, so it can be that my grammar or my writing art is not perfect. I hope you can excuse this. I will try to support you at all your technical Questions. Also i do writing since end of 2012 the new German Manuals. My colleague Reinhard Vallant write the English Version / translate them. If you do not understand some things or the Translation is in "not good English" please tell me. So we can improve it. I know many Manuals are old or not in English written. I will update them, but it need Time. So please excuse this also when it take some Time.
I do the Repairs of our Products, so if you have a item for Checkup oder Service after Crash you can send it to me. Please contact me befor you send it. Then i can explain what to do that the Parcel will be edited by the German Customs.
So, if you have Questions, need some explanations about GigaControl write me, you can send me a Mail.
Kind regards from Berlin / Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Berlin
Jens Ackermann
Service Manager / Leiter der Serviceabteilung
08-14-2014, 03:16 PM
#2445
Hello to all weatronic user, followers and anyone else
I have send a happy Hello at the Weatronic Support Forum and get from HarryC the info that here are the moust weatronic users. So i say here also Hello:
My Name is Jens Ackermann. I am the Manager of the Service Department of weatronic. Now i have found the Time to read and write in this Forum.
My mother tongue is German, so it can be that my grammar or my writing art is not perfect. I hope you can excuse this. I will try to support you at all your technical Questions. Also i do writing since end of 2012 the new German Manuals. My colleague Reinhard Vallant write the English Version / translate them. If you do not understand some things or the Translation is in "not good English" please tell me. So we can improve it. I know many Manuals are old or not in English written. I will update them, but it need Time. So please excuse this also when it take some Time.
I do the Repairs of our Products, so if you have a item for Checkup oder Service after Crash you can send it to me. Please contact me befor you send it. Then i can explain what to do that the Parcel will be edited by the German Customs.
So, if you have Questions, need some explanations about GigaControl write me, you can send me a Mail.
Kind regards from Berlin / Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Berlin
Jens Ackermann
Service Manager / Leiter der Serviceabteilung
I have send a happy Hello at the Weatronic Support Forum and get from HarryC the info that here are the moust weatronic users. So i say here also Hello:
My Name is Jens Ackermann. I am the Manager of the Service Department of weatronic. Now i have found the Time to read and write in this Forum.
My mother tongue is German, so it can be that my grammar or my writing art is not perfect. I hope you can excuse this. I will try to support you at all your technical Questions. Also i do writing since end of 2012 the new German Manuals. My colleague Reinhard Vallant write the English Version / translate them. If you do not understand some things or the Translation is in "not good English" please tell me. So we can improve it. I know many Manuals are old or not in English written. I will update them, but it need Time. So please excuse this also when it take some Time.
I do the Repairs of our Products, so if you have a item for Checkup oder Service after Crash you can send it to me. Please contact me befor you send it. Then i can explain what to do that the Parcel will be edited by the German Customs.
So, if you have Questions, need some explanations about GigaControl write me, you can send me a Mail.
Kind regards from Berlin / Mit freundlichen Grüßen aus Berlin
Jens Ackermann
Service Manager / Leiter der Serviceabteilung
It is really great to have you here. This forum and thread in particular, has been very helpful in the past, so if you can drop in here occasionally, especially if you have something new or important to announce, that would be great.
We are of course all waiting for news on the BAT 60.
Roger
08-14-2014, 09:23 PM
#2446
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Hello to all weatronic user, followers and anyone else
i can give you some news about the BAT60. Yesterday we (5 of us) took 5 BAT60 and go flying. We have testet the last update and make the wizzard sence or do we need to change something . . .
By myself yes it is easy to Programm a new Modell with the Wizzard. The only thing is you must read what is on the screen. The Software works and is nearly ready. Only some functions must programmed-in. Then it will be ready. . .
i can give you some news about the BAT60. Yesterday we (5 of us) took 5 BAT60 and go flying. We have testet the last update and make the wizzard sence or do we need to change something . . .
By myself yes it is easy to Programm a new Modell with the Wizzard. The only thing is you must read what is on the screen
. The Software works and is nearly ready. Only some functions must programmed-in. Then it will be ready. . .
08-15-2014, 07:31 AM
#2447
Dutchy
Managed to get your leads done this afternoon, I will seal with Hysol tomorrow as I can only spend so long with leg down.
They will be put in post Monday am, the leads are 190mm end > end
Sorry for your wait...also promise the soldering has not been influenced with Morphine as hospital would not let me bring any home! :-(
Alan
Managed to get your leads done this afternoon, I will seal with Hysol tomorrow as I can only spend so long with leg down.
They will be put in post Monday am, the leads are 190mm end > end
Sorry for your wait...also promise the soldering has not been influenced with Morphine as hospital would not let me bring any home! :-(
Alan
Last edited by fireblade5437; 08-15-2014 at 07:40 AM.
08-17-2014, 11:06 AM
#2450
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Looks promising Alan!
Good to hear that those leads weren't soldered by a doped up morphine junk.
Then they would be just as good as the WEA patch leads ain't it?
As said in the pm, thanks a lot!
Good to hear that those leads weren't soldered by a doped up morphine junk.
Then they would be just as good as the WEA patch leads ain't it?
As said in the pm, thanks a lot!