HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

But can you reach the switches on the BAT60 David? The production case is the same as your beta case.

tms-ger

Hi Oli and Roger,

as I wrote, I saw *serveral* things running on the BAT60 already at ProWing fair early this year which are currently not included in the inital realase FW image. I.e. I logged into the BAT60 Linux system via telnet, (which is not necessary or available to the user when the WIFI functionality is released) used a browser on Stefans mobile to configure the BAT60 settings and so on. So that code mainly already EXISTS.

Why do I write this ? A little bit for you Roger, because I understand you (and others) which are a little bit influenced by what they have experienced in the past according to WEA delivery times. But that has nearly completely changed. What has not changed, and this is most important, is the basic idea of Weatronic regarding the quality of the released code and the HW it runs on. And there is no way other than testing, testing and one more time testing before they release something. And that takes some time...

With my BAT60, it is the case that there is nothing recorded on the mSD card or the internal filesystem. Or to be correct, I can at least not access any of those files. Most areas of the file system is hidden for the user, which is good. What I can do already is to copy model-memories to and from the BAT60 using mSD or USB Stick. But as Oli wrotes, you can be sure that this will be released shortly as WEA itself knows that this data recording, and I love that as much as you do, is a key feature of the WEA system and not nearly matched by other R/C systems available today. And it will be likely more informational than what we already know from DV3/4...

So all I can do is encourage you to buy a BAT60, taking into account what I have written in this and my last posts. It is a great TX with a unique concept not to find on any Radio these days; even if they cost a one thound more EUROs. And it will grow more and more over the time. And remember, it has english display language already ;-) Several years ago, that would have been released with german language first. But luckily that is no problem for me. With end of october, the german user interface is to be released.

There is also a thrid-party carbon tray already available for the BAT60, see: http://www.carbonpult.de

Please feel free to aks any question regarding the BAT60 if you have any.

There is also a very long (1,5h) demo video by a third party called "modellpilot.eu" of the BAT60. Even if you cant understand what is said, you can see all the screens the moderator is walking through; to get an idea what is already possible. You need to freely register to see the HD video, use this link:

http://www.test.modellpilot.eu/bat-6...der-weatronic/

and select english language on the upper left drop-down box, the page mainly starts in german ("deutsch") language...



best regards to australia

Thomas


PS: What Oli says about the telemetry implementation, the gizmo and so on is 100% correct, in every aspect. It matches exactly with my information I have up today.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Thomas, can you explain to us what it does that say a JR 28, or Multiplex Profi or Jeti or Taranis does not do? There was nothing in the BAT60 instruction manual that stood out so I expect you need to have the radio and use the firmware to see what it can really do

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Can the rocker switches be replaced with normal toggle switches operating at right angles to the alignment of the rockers? That would help a lot as they could be operated easily

olnico

Hey we must have some kind of psychic connection ;-) ( not talking about German beer and saussages )
This is exactly what I am working on. Not as simple as changing a switch though. The rocker switches are embedded in the PCB ( welded ). What I am trying to do is remove the plastic pushers of the switch to replace them with 3D printed parts of the shape I want.
The sliders are an easy job on the other hand. CAD is finished, I need to print them...

tms-ger

...it is the hardware-basis in combination with the software and the resulting flexibility which makes it unique. Of course one must want to see and like that. If you say, that hi-res color display is not worth having it and so on with all the available other details, you can surely reduce it to the niveau of a Taranis (and you can do that with ie a yeti too). Which, the taranis, of course seems to me to be a superb carrier system for a DV4 :-) That is a perfect solution for the ones who do not want to spend so much money on a TX and also get a superb RF-Link subsystem... See Olis experiences with that.


best regards

Thomas

PS: Rockers: That must be possible, since they are at least "only" 3-Position switches. But you have to "invent" and do that on your own at this time. There is enough space in that area. The rockes are fixed through their PCB mounting and also have a strong stabilizaion socket in the top of the TX case. There is no screw against the case which holds them in position...

When I get it right, Oli is already thinking about an alternative regaring this. Maybe he has a concept drawing already he can post here ? (uups, OLI was too fast for me...)

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

But what is that? Tell us what it actually does that makes it unique. What does it actually do that beats the other Tx I suggested?

tms-ger

...I wrote an example already. The rest is up to you to discover. As said, one must be willing to see the beauty. Maybe that is given to one and to some others not; which are blind for it. But that is absolutely OK. Maybe the video link I posted can help you, if you want to. Do not get me wrong, I like your critism which is (for me) mostly based on a solid basis and therefore an enrichment.

To be one-time hard, and I will NOT continue discussion on that level; that has to be left for others: For ME, the display of the YETI TX and how the infos are presented there is simply crap, especially for that money and the class the TX aims at. This is not up-to-date, at least for ME. The case "design" is also a simple, ugly box; a simple CNC machined frame can not alter this. And so on... Fullstop ;-)

Maybe Oli can write something out of his perspective. He has also long-term experience with the BAT60 and maybe can tell out of another point of view..


best regards

Thomas

olnico

You already know this Harry: you've been using the system long enough.

. Dual intelligent adaptive hopping system using the full 80 channel on the 2.4 Ghz band, discarding jammed channels and complying with the new ETSI EN 300 328 V1.8.1 standard ( no one else has this on the market ) and FCC standard
. Two super high sensitivity patch antennas used in the transmitter module with dual hemispheric polarization ( no one else has this on the market )
. Two truly redundant circuits in the receiver separately computing each signals from the transmitter and selecting the best one 100 times per second ( no one else has this on the market included in one receiver )
. Ability to use super high sensitivity patch antennas on the Gizmo receivers ( no one else has this on the market )

The software side of things is a bit to early to discuss in detail, but I really like the wizard that makes programming a model a breeze. The programming philosophy is very close to the one we had on the sublimissim Multiplex MC3000- MC4000 ( RIP ).

tms-ger

...thank you Oli, you are right. But Harry will say that this is mostly already available with DV4 ;-) In german we say: "Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile." I am not sure what the correct english phrase for that would be, but that hits the point for me...

Maybe: "The whole is more than the simple sum of its parts."


so long...

Thomas

olnico

Harry, I was thinking about your ergonomics problem last night.
I thought about the ergonomics adaptation I had to do with a friend of my father who had a heart attack and lost proprioception on his left hand.
I created a set of specific switches on his JR 10x so he could feel what he was actioning.
It worked extremely well for him and he could keep flying for a few more years thanks to this.
I have a picture of some of the mods:



So I started from the same philosophy to get a switch ergonomics that has never been done before. I designed a shape that would look like a trigger and offer a specific proprioceptive shape for each switch.
This concept is systematically used in modern cockpits where all the important A/P control knobs/ switches have a specific shape so that they could be operated "blind" ( smoke, absence of light or high level of fatigue ) and give a specific tactile feedback.

Here is how it looks like:



The switch is bent into a trigger and terminated with a specific shape ( here a ball ) of a specific color that can be screwed on top and changed ( ball/ square/ triangle, you name it ).
The trigger shape is also angled towards the stick to make the distance and reach extremely natural.



The result is a completely different type of feedback of the switch that really feels like a trigger and immediately falls under the hand.



The switch-stick distance is now the absolute minimum. I initially set it to 20 mm, but I could accidentally flip the switch forward when operating the stick. So I reduced the bending of the trigger to get to 30 mm.



This is a completely different concept and somehow is sacrificing the sleek look of the transmitter to maximum ergonomics.
But there is not a single transmitter on the planet that will get the switches so close to the sticks as with this upgrade.
Love it, or hate it...

olnico

Absolutely. This is what makes this system so unique. Innovative solutions at the top of technology and completely proofed over a course of 5 years of continuous operations around the globe and million of operating hours, including by UAV operators like us...

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Correct!
What I want to understand is what is different about the BAT60 compared to other very capable Tx. I fly with a large jet group who mostly use other brands not Weatronic and their models are not going out of control so the blurb about the Wea transmission system feels academic. Other brands work too!
I love the Weatronic gizmo Rx, I know all about their advantages.
What I seek is evidence to back up the claims made about the BAT60. Where I come from we don't believe generic claims unless they are backed up with examples.

tms-ger

...with Jets you usually do not fly as far away as you do with gliders. Do that with YETI and then you know what range means, same with FPV... So please do not compare WEA to the range one can achieve with other systems and say there is no difference. There IS a difference and this is not only academic. Maybe for you and your team mates it lasts..fine. But I want to have the best - that simple :-) It is a technical hobby and I simply love good things ;-)

I feel, you can seek as long as you want, you will personally not be able to find the arguments you need to convince yourself. Maybe cause you´re standing in your way yourself. Accept it, use the equipment you like and that convinces you; why change ? It is all OK like it is. Go flying and enjoy. That is the sense of the hobby. And also let those enjoy the BATxx, who simply like it. And do not forget, you always have the chance to change your decision later on; no one can hibit this for you... Does that not feel fine ?


best regards

Thomas, a happy BAT60 user

olnico

On flying target going at 300 mph, I can guarantee you that you'd immediately understand what range and resolution means.
Obviously, this is not the kind of jet that everybody flies on the week-end. However a Diamond fitted with a Behotec 220 is damn close to this. Same thing with an overpowered UL or UB...
Then comes the software programming capacity and features like web based control program. But this is another level still in progress.

Edgar Perez

My Feedback: (13)

Myself I'm convinced and enjoy the advantages of Wea, so I see the transmitter as a way to eliminate the dependency of module based Tx. Of course, the Tx software must be at least as good as the current one I use (Futaba 12FG), and a good platform for new future advances.
I received an email today from Wea saying the larger Gizmos are already supported, so need to get the rest of the basic (data analysis, voice output) before we have a 'good enough' BAT solution. I do think Wea is falling behind on the telemetry stuff, but don't see them improving that for at least one year (not an educated guess, just a guess).

olnico

Here are a couple of renderings of the modified rocker switches:

This is the bottom one. The ball is placed further away from the switch shaft.



This is the top one. The ball is closer. This way, the two switches are easier to discriminate. I might even put a square shape on the bottom one instead of a ball.

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Oli, you star. At first I thought it would not solve the problem as fingers are not long enough to get on top of the toggle to pull it back, but of course they don’t need to, they can reach the near end of the toggle to push it down. The vertical lever is only needed to allow it to be pushed away. You may have suddenly changed four unuseable switches into four useable ones and transformed the useability of Tx. You expect your special pycabs? plastic to be strong enough to last?

ajs56a

TOP Thomas

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Do you mean that you can not, and in future updates will not be able to, use the Tx screen as gigacontrol to program the Rx?

tms-ger

HarryC, try to watch the video which I linked above, than those question were obsolete...

But to tell the truth: "Gigacontrol" and more is already bulid into the BAT60 and yes you can do all the things from the touch screen right now. The thing OLI mentioned is, that if one would like to have a larger screen or want to open SEVERAL screens to the BATxx at ONCE, there is the possibility to access the BAT60 from a browser via WLAN, which CAN run on a device (PC, mobile, tablet....) which has got maybe a bigger screen than the BAT60. But its display IS superb and very fine Hires and readable in sunlight. I wonder a bit, how you can have missed those details if you played with the BATxx that were richly available at the Jetpower Weatronic booths ?!

@OLI: That is a fine idea, I like that concept too. As I said several post before, there is always something to improve... Hope that the mock-ups out of the 3D printer will work so far. Do you have access to a professional one ?

Now I will go upstairs and continue some model programming with our BAT60 :-) We did several flights (for hours) with it already... No lockups of the flight controller so far!


best regards

Thomas

tms-ger

Hi Edgar,

but they are falling massively forward regarding TX technology ;-) And also the telemetry is further developping in the background. They are in discussion with JetCat, SM and so on. It lasts a bit longer, but then you can expect an integrated, good solution and no "hacks" / work-arounds which I often (not always) see when looking at other vendors...

Be sure that you have not to wait that long for the features you expect to be released in the production image. You will surely read about this here. At least I will give an info...


best regards

Thomas

Jannica

Does any of you well informed people know when one can expect the pult sender, the BAT 64?

tms-ger

Hi Jannica,

according to WEA, the traytype BAT64 is expected to ship at the end of december / within january 2015... Hope that helps.


Tom

olnico

Thanks, Harry.
If this design does not work good enough, I also have another design with the ball tilted upwards to protrude from the transmitter face plate.
The actual rocker switches are in fact made from PYCABS. So I guess that the modified version should work. However if the leverage created by the ball is too hard on the plastic shaft, then I also have carbon fiber reinforced PYCABS available...