Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
11-30-2009, 02:23 PM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
ORIGINAL: Vampire
Hi to all who have had questions about the slow speed flight tendencies of the Vampire design.
In all honesty I have years of flying experiance with both the 1/5th scale I flew at Top Gun in 98 and 99 and then onto the 1/4 scale the past several years. It will take a ''deep'' stall to create the condition (assuming a properly laterally balanced wing) in which the wing tip will roll off. Depending on the design and wing loading, washout will only marginally delay this effect.
If the airframe is configured and flown as described in the flight set-up portion of the manual, it will insure full success with little worry.
The GA-23012 airfoil I have used is very close to scale and has very good low speed characteristics and years of flying the Vampire and my other designs has born this out.
While as good a flying airframe the Vampire is as designed, if it makes one more comfortable to incorporate Washout or CROW, by all means this will only serve to enhance its already very good low speed performance.
Best Regards to all.
Hi to all who have had questions about the slow speed flight tendencies of the Vampire design.
In all honesty I have years of flying experiance with both the 1/5th scale I flew at Top Gun in 98 and 99 and then onto the 1/4 scale the past several years. It will take a ''deep'' stall to create the condition (assuming a properly laterally balanced wing) in which the wing tip will roll off. Depending on the design and wing loading, washout will only marginally delay this effect.
If the airframe is configured and flown as described in the flight set-up portion of the manual, it will insure full success with little worry.
The GA-23012 airfoil I have used is very close to scale and has very good low speed characteristics and years of flying the Vampire and my other designs has born this out.
While as good a flying airframe the Vampire is as designed, if it makes one more comfortable to incorporate Washout or CROW, by all means this will only serve to enhance its already very good low speed performance.
Best Regards to all.
Cheers,
Keith
12-01-2009, 03:33 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
What servos are you going to use??
Please keep up the building thread, as I will start my 1/5 scale in a couple of weeeks
Best wishes to all
Roos
Auckland NZ
Please keep up the building thread, as I will start my 1/5 scale in a couple of weeeks
Best wishes to all
Roos
Auckland NZ
12-01-2009, 05:07 AM
#53
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Roos...
I looked through my servo boxes to see what I´ve got...and came up with the following:
Flaps: Hyperion DS UMD 20 and Hitec Mg 5645 both approx 12kg/6v Ailerons and elevator: Hitec 5645 Mg. Rudders: Here my stock of servos was empty..but a couple of 6-8kgs...
The recommended size is around 5,5-6kg..but I just use what I´ve got!
Good luck with your building... I´l keep up with my thread.
Pete
I looked through my servo boxes to see what I´ve got...and came up with the following:
Flaps: Hyperion DS UMD 20 and Hitec Mg 5645 both approx 12kg/6v Ailerons and elevator: Hitec 5645 Mg. Rudders: Here my stock of servos was empty..but a couple of 6-8kgs...
The recommended size is around 5,5-6kg..but I just use what I´ve got!
Good luck with your building... I´l keep up with my thread.
Pete
12-01-2009, 12:33 PM
#54
RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
ORIGINAL: Vampire
The GA-23012 airfoil I have used is very close to scale and has very good low speed characteristics and years of flying the Vampire and my other designs has born this out.
The GA-23012 airfoil I have used is very close to scale and has very good low speed characteristics and years of flying the Vampire and my other designs has born this out.
Many thanks for the response.
Where did you get the section?
It is not in me copy of Compufoil, Profili 2 or the UIUC Airfoil Data Site.
Come to that, neither are the full size sections quoted in David Lednicer'a Incomplete Guide.
Just curious.
12-01-2009, 09:08 PM
#55
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Alasdair,
The 23012 is a very well known General Aviaiton airfoil and yeilds very good lift even to a few degress negavtive AOA.
You can generate this airfoil in Compufoil as I have this program as well.
Go to - GENERATE TAB from pull down menu, select - N.A.C.A Airfoils, select - 5 Digit, select 23012 and you have it. Save it as an .DXF and you can suck it into ACAD.
30 designates the Max thickness is at 30% chord and the 12 = Airfoil thickness is 12% of wing chord.
Hope this answers your question.
Best Regards,
The 23012 is a very well known General Aviaiton airfoil and yeilds very good lift even to a few degress negavtive AOA.
You can generate this airfoil in Compufoil as I have this program as well.
Go to - GENERATE TAB from pull down menu, select - N.A.C.A Airfoils, select - 5 Digit, select 23012 and you have it. Save it as an .DXF and you can suck it into ACAD.
30 designates the Max thickness is at 30% chord and the 12 = Airfoil thickness is 12% of wing chord.
Hope this answers your question.
Best Regards,
12-02-2009, 10:02 AM
#56
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Kerry..
Those wing tanks...how are they installed? I can see two "pylons" or holds. Are they permanent or removable?
Pete
Those wing tanks...how are they installed? I can see two "pylons" or holds. Are they permanent or removable?
Pete
12-02-2009, 12:12 PM
#57
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi Pete,
The Vampire used 2 tanks. The first was the original 100 Gal. tear drop with a significant 1 pc. pylon. The 2nd tank used was the one you see in the flight pic which is the 120 Gal. "cigar" shaped tank which was borrowed from the Venom.
The 120 Gal. tank has a much cleaner tank pylon arrangment. You can also see in my RCU AVIATAR photo this tank on the full scale.
On the model, the forward pylon plugs into a receptical built into the wing structure just inboard of W5.
I do have BOTH tanks avail. in 1/4 scale and only the 100 Gal. tank for the 1/5th.
First pic is the 1/5th and 1/4 scale 100 Gal tanks, 2nd pic is the 1/4 scale 120 Gal.
Regards,
The Vampire used 2 tanks. The first was the original 100 Gal. tear drop with a significant 1 pc. pylon. The 2nd tank used was the one you see in the flight pic which is the 120 Gal. "cigar" shaped tank which was borrowed from the Venom.
The 120 Gal. tank has a much cleaner tank pylon arrangment. You can also see in my RCU AVIATAR photo this tank on the full scale.
On the model, the forward pylon plugs into a receptical built into the wing structure just inboard of W5.
I do have BOTH tanks avail. in 1/4 scale and only the 100 Gal. tank for the 1/5th.
First pic is the 1/5th and 1/4 scale 100 Gal tanks, 2nd pic is the 1/4 scale 120 Gal.
Regards,
12-03-2009, 03:51 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
just received my plan and laser cut parts......another will take to the air........soon!..........
will be keeping an eye on this build.....keep it coming......just finishing off my 2 panthers........first...lol
will be keeping an eye on this build.....keep it coming......just finishing off my 2 panthers........first...lol
12-03-2009, 05:53 AM
#59
RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Vampire,
I see!! I know about the NACA 5-digit series of airfoils. I bought Abbott & von Doenhoff's book Theory of Wing Sections.
It was your GA- prefix that threw me.
Do you fly at Florida Jets in March? Would be great to see the Vampire(s) there.
I see!! I know about the NACA 5-digit series of airfoils. I bought Abbott & von Doenhoff's book Theory of Wing Sections.
It was your GA- prefix that threw me.
Do you fly at Florida Jets in March? Would be great to see the Vampire(s) there.
12-03-2009, 07:45 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi Kerry...
Nothing I´d rather do than getting the wing tanks from you...however this is a low budget build and I guess that I´d have to fabricate them myself...
I would appreciate if you could post some close-ups of the wing tank pylons/holds, so I can see how to install mine...
Nothing I´d rather do than getting the wing tanks from you...however this is a low budget build and I guess that I´d have to fabricate them myself...
I would appreciate if you could post some close-ups of the wing tank pylons/holds, so I can see how to install mine...
12-05-2009, 10:52 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
In Sweden the weather is dark, grey, rainy and we have had even a little snow.... so I spend more time than usual in the workshop[:-]
This has resulted in two almost finished splitflaps! I have also made the access hatches, so now is only left to finish planking of the fuse....
This has resulted in two almost finished splitflaps! I have also made the access hatches, so now is only left to finish planking of the fuse....
12-10-2009, 10:00 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Even if it dosen´t look of much, I have made some progress!
I´m finished with planking of the fuse. Almost done with sanding. Have removed the cross members of the crutch....the inside of the fuse is L A R G E! Lots of room for everything. Guess that I´ll make the tank myself.....
Trial fitted the fiber glass ducts...so soon I´ll start on the wing-....
I´m finished with planking of the fuse. Almost done with sanding. Have removed the cross members of the crutch....the inside of the fuse is L A R G E! Lots of room for everything. Guess that I´ll make the tank myself.....
Trial fitted the fiber glass ducts...so soon I´ll start on the wing-....
12-14-2009, 02:27 PM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
After having removed the crossmembers of the crutch ...I removed the aft former # 12 by drilling a circle of holes all way round the former. Then it was easy to take away the last piece of the crutch and sand the exhaust opening to get rid of the last bits of former 12.
To secure the aft end I first gave it a layer of glass cloth and epoxy....
To secure the aft end I first gave it a layer of glass cloth and epoxy....
12-14-2009, 02:34 PM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Installing the fiberglass ducts: Using small pieces of balsa and cyano I glued the ducts into place. Using the drawing I made a set of 2 x 3 balsa pieces to form the inlet...from the photos you can see the various steps in the proccess ....[&o]
12-17-2009, 09:13 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
...no I took over them from my friend Ivve Hallberg, who lost his on maiden. They were undamaged.....at first I was actually going to order a set as I discovered they were not included in the basic package...
12-20-2009, 10:44 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
I´d like to wish you all a merry Christmas and a happy New Year....due to the holidays there will be a short break in my building efforts...
[sm=49_49.gif]
[sm=49_49.gif]
12-21-2009, 02:01 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi all,
I am interested in your comments on various glues.
I am just about to start my Vampire build, I have quite a history of building balsa planes including models with 100cc motors so I would appreciate your comments,
as to which glue you all prefer.
I am giving my comments on the glues I have used and would appreciate yours.
PVA or white glue is very good at gluing balsa and wood but it leaves a "rubbery" glue line which is almost impossible to sand.
The Polyurethane glues seem to glue well, but need clamping otherwise the glue line is a honeycomb with no strength, however it does sand well.
Epoxies are very good , but the mixing is a pain, I either mix too much or not enough?
Cyano, I prefer the gel type, the only trouble with it is you have to position it exactly first time around.
Balsa cement, I find is very good , BUT I am not convinced on the actual glue joint, especailly from balsa to wood, as to whether it is the glue that is breaking or the wood, but it does sand well.
Has any body found the "perfect" glue, that will work well with balsa and wood.?
Some advice please,
I have my 20% Vampire jigs made now to get to the building the crutch..
This build is marvellous and has helped a lot.
A Merry Christmas to all from a nice and warm Auckland, New Zealand
Ross
I am interested in your comments on various glues.
I am just about to start my Vampire build, I have quite a history of building balsa planes including models with 100cc motors so I would appreciate your comments,
as to which glue you all prefer.
I am giving my comments on the glues I have used and would appreciate yours.
PVA or white glue is very good at gluing balsa and wood but it leaves a "rubbery" glue line which is almost impossible to sand.
The Polyurethane glues seem to glue well, but need clamping otherwise the glue line is a honeycomb with no strength, however it does sand well.
Epoxies are very good , but the mixing is a pain, I either mix too much or not enough?
Cyano, I prefer the gel type, the only trouble with it is you have to position it exactly first time around.
Balsa cement, I find is very good , BUT I am not convinced on the actual glue joint, especailly from balsa to wood, as to whether it is the glue that is breaking or the wood, but it does sand well.
Has any body found the "perfect" glue, that will work well with balsa and wood.?
Some advice please,
I have my 20% Vampire jigs made now to get to the building the crutch..
This build is marvellous and has helped a lot.
A Merry Christmas to all from a nice and warm Auckland, New Zealand
Ross
12-21-2009, 06:25 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi Ross,
I´d like to add a couple of comments regarding my experience with different type of glues. Having tried most of the stuff on the market during my many years as a modeller, I have ended up using only a few types. I am very allergic to cyano, but use it when I´m planking a fuse with balsa strips..and then I´ve got to use a mask for protection, but inevitably end up with symptoms very much like a serious cold....[:@]
PVA or white glue is my preferred type of glue when gluing balsa...it´s cheap and non toxic. Only drawback is the glue line when sanding!
5 & 20 minutes epoxy for hardwood joints and where you need strength.
Those three glues are what I use..
Pete
I´d like to add a couple of comments regarding my experience with different type of glues. Having tried most of the stuff on the market during my many years as a modeller, I have ended up using only a few types. I am very allergic to cyano, but use it when I´m planking a fuse with balsa strips..and then I´ve got to use a mask for protection, but inevitably end up with symptoms very much like a serious cold....[:@]
PVA or white glue is my preferred type of glue when gluing balsa...it´s cheap and non toxic. Only drawback is the glue line when sanding!
5 & 20 minutes epoxy for hardwood joints and where you need strength.
Those three glues are what I use..
Pete
12-21-2009, 06:54 AM
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi Ross
(Pete sorry for the intromision), Ross if you help, i use exactly the same adhesives to Pete for the construction of my Vampire without problems.
Regards and happy Christmas,
Norbert
(Pete sorry for the intromision), Ross if you help, i use exactly the same adhesives to Pete for the construction of my Vampire without problems.
Regards and happy Christmas,
Norbert
12-21-2009, 12:38 PM
#74
RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Ross,
For strip planking, I have found aliphatic wood glue( Elmers) to work best. That is, I use Elmers for the lenght of the strips and CA on the formers. Then you can work pretty fast.
Aliphatic wood glue has the same properties as white glue, but is a lot better to sand as it does not become as hard and rubbery as the white glues.
Per
For strip planking, I have found aliphatic wood glue( Elmers) to work best. That is, I use Elmers for the lenght of the strips and CA on the formers. Then you can work pretty fast.
Aliphatic wood glue has the same properties as white glue, but is a lot better to sand as it does not become as hard and rubbery as the white glues.
Per
12-24-2009, 08:44 AM
#75
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RE: Sterner - DH 100 VAMPIRE buildingThread
Hi All,
Very impressive progress by all working on Vampires.
As to glues, I support the use of aliphatic wood glue (Elmers - Also known as "Carpenters glue") to work best as Per has mentioned. The key to ease of sanding is to ensure that all excess glue is removed with a wet paper towel as you lay the stringers. This will make life much easier.
A very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to all.
Best Regards,
Very impressive progress by all working on Vampires.
As to glues, I support the use of aliphatic wood glue (Elmers - Also known as "Carpenters glue") to work best as Per has mentioned. The key to ease of sanding is to ensure that all excess glue is removed with a wet paper towel as you lay the stringers. This will make life much easier.
A very Merry Christmas and a Happy and Prosperous New Year to all.
Best Regards,
