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  1. #301
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    While the Aeropoxy dries joining the ducts to the intake mouldings I thought I would show you how I join two home made tank halves.
    The tank is for the smoke fuel and I first made a balsa plug, covered this in glass cloth, primed, sanded and eventually a friend made two mould halves. Joining these in the mould is not easy so I started off with two halves...

    The problem joining edges like this is there is no support for the edges as they butt up so my fix is to sand around the inside edge, about 10mm deep will do, then sand the outside along the edge maybe 20mm or so in, clean with Acetone or similar. I cut up strips of thin FR4 or 'polyply', sand and clean these off, then taking lengths to suit the inside edges of the tank clamp lengths inside the tank so half of the FR4 is proud of the edge, thin cyano is fed under the inside edge - it wicks in well. Once set remove the clamps and run more cyano along the edges to make sure the strip is well adhered.

    Once you have done this all round you can pop the other half on, the FR4 will give you the lip from which to glue the halves together, again thin cyano wicked in will do a good job, kick it and leave for a few minutes to go off totally.

    When done all round sand the joined faces, clean off and then apply a good few layers of glass cloth, working with some thin strips to start and then wider ones over the top. I tend to use light cloth and apply more layers, possibly up to 6 in total. Once dry a quick sand to clean up and check for leaks.......

    marcs

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  2. #302

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Marc,

    I am certainly no expert on this issue, but, the turbine exhaust seems much too close to the pipe inlet as mounted. I'd try moving the turbine forward to get the exhaust just at the bell mouth for proper cooling.

    David S

  3. #303
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    David,

    Looks fine to me. If you look at the manual for the 200SX it gives specific measurements and shows the exhaust cone Xmm inside the bellmouth - take a look at the manual if you can find one - it's pretty useful to have official JetCat dimensions for spacing!

    M

  4. #304

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)


    ORIGINAL: schroedm

    David,

    Looks fine to me. If you look at the manual for the 200SX it gives specific measurements and shows the exhaust cone Xmm inside the bellmouth - take a look at the manual if you can find one - it's pretty useful to have official JetCat dimensions for spacing!

    M
    Wow! Live & learn, I guess. That's completely contrary to everything I've ever seen or heard regarding proper spacing of the turbine from the pipe inlet.

    David S

  5. #305
    jetpilot's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    I ordered another one of these kits and it sure would be nice to have all these parts you made!
    Scott
    Scott Marr

  6. #306
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Scott, the items will soon be available from Als Hobbies, just finalising the CAD drawings for the formers and getting some samples cut to check.
    The items will all be hand made so please allow time for this as we do not run a factory production line here in my garage!

    marcs

  7. #307
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Two ducts - One duct - No ducts
    Really pleased with the result i have to say, finally the jigsaw puzzle is almost together

    marcs
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  8. #308
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Great stuff.

    Now, onto my TomaHawk ones

    Cheers,
    Mark

  9. #309
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Smoke tank has had three layers of glass cloth applied over the join and now is ready for the hardware and mounting.
    The tank sits in between the two rails which run centrally back to the main wing tube, the location is tight to maximise the smoke fuel capacity so to allow easy access the cross former was cut to give a slot to slide the tank in, I will make a carbon brace which will be removable to bridge the gap and retain the structural element of this former.
    The planned tank securing involves two FR4 plates which will be aeropxied to the bottom of the tank at each end, one end has shaped lugs which locate under the wing tube - a simple push fit, the other has two slots and this will be secured by two M3 domed head bolts and nuts.

    A few pics of the parts and tank assembly..

    marcs

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  10. #310
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Two jobs done today, first having struggled to get the thrust pipe in an out of the fuselage with the small support rearmost former in place I made a slightly different support device which is mounted on the rear former which supports the elevator rails. The rear od the Hawk pipe has a scale reversed fairing which seems happy to catch on everything when you try to manoever it into position, also when you lift the bypass up to clear the formers, the pipe hits the base of the rudder tube - so a new fix was needed.

    I ended up making a couple of 'clamps' which are the same diameter as the rear section of the pipe, a spring connects the free ends and allows give in the support, the top sections mount through the existing former and are secured with two small bolts into two blind nuts. Now with one side already bolted in but left loose the other 'claw' can sit in the base of the rear fuselage while the pipe is slid into place, its then possible to grab the loose 'claw' and bring it into place round the pipe, securing it with the bolt the two are tightened up and hold the pipe in the correct position central in the exit hole of the fuselage.

    Second job was to cut and mount the gear doors. This required mounting the two wings to the rear fuselage section and placing the whole thing on a low table, then having cut the moulded gear door panels into the required shape the long task of trimming and sanding the 6 doors got underway - many hours later the gaps and fit are 90% there, good enough to mount before the final adjustments are made. For the small doors at the end of the opening in the wing I used a thin piece of FR4 rather than the plastic item supplied, its thinner, more rigid and weights the same.

    The two main doors were mounted and the hinge positions marked for slot cutting into the door inner moulding, I cut two slots in each door using the small milling machine which give nice even slots. The doors were re-taped back into position, the slots filled with methacrylate and the hinges following preparation were lowered into the slots and left to dry.

    The small end doors have a complex mounting and hinge set-up, so I will post info on this stage in a little more detail.

    The positions of the hinges is marked on a plastic template supplied and the small plastic insert also provides the correct angle the hinge should be fixed in - a nice touch to the kit. The hinges were prep'd and tacked with cyano.

    More tomorrow.....

    marcs

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  11. #311
    UKR-Jet's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)


    ORIGINAL: marc s

    While the Aeropoxy dries joining the ducts to the intake mouldings I thought I would show you how I join two home made tank halves.
    The tank is for the smoke fuel and I first made a balsa plug, covered this in glass cloth, primed, sanded and eventually a friend made two mould halves. Joining these in the mould is not easy so I started off with two halves...

    The problem joining edges like this is there is no support for the edges as they butt up so my fix is to sand around the inside edge, about 10mm deep will do, then sand the outside along the edge maybe 20mm or so in, clean with Acetone or similar. I cut up strips of thin FR4 or 'polyply', sand and clean these off, then taking lengths to suit the inside edges of the tank clamp lengths inside the tank so half of the FR4 is proud of the edge, thin cyano is fed under the inside edge - it wicks in well. Once set remove the clamps and run more cyano along the edges to make sure the strip is well adhered.

    Once you have done this all round you can pop the other half on, the FR4 will give you the lip from which to glue the halves together, again thin cyano wicked in will do a good job, kick it and leave for a few minutes to go off totally.

    When done all round sand the joined faces, clean off and then apply a good few layers of glass cloth, working with some thin strips to start and then wider ones over the top. I tend to use light cloth and apply more layers, possibly up to 6 in total. Once dry a quick sand to clean up and check for leaks.......

    marcs

    Marc.
    You as always well done![sm=thumbs_up.gif]
    Manufacture Jet of models, the Landing gear, Pipes and Nozzles and other parts...

  12. #312
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Small Gear Door Fitment

    I thought I would detail this job a little more closely as I have not been able to really see how best to do it from any thread or building CD supplied with the kit, and as people have suggested it is no fun!
    If this helps a few along the way then great because it has taken me over 10 hours to sort out the best route forward.....

    OK first is the good part, supplied with the kit is a little plastic template which has slots cut in it so that the two hinges you need to fit to the door are aligned correctly, also the larger hinge needs to be set at an angle and this too is easy to do with the attached triangular template which slots into the plastic template. So scuffed the hinges, scuffed the FR4 door (I used this rather than the plastic one supplied - its thinner and more rigid) layed on the template and tack cyano'd the hinges in place. Removed the template.

    Now the fun part. The door opens in a very complex manner, a kind of twisting motion, the supplied parts for the attachment of the hinges to the wing comprises of aluminium ball clevises and threaded rod, the idea is the ball clevis attaches to the hinges on the door, and two lengths of threaded rod fix into the gear formers to secure the hinges - here is the main problem, due to the arc the door twists in, the ball clevis's do not really provide enough swivel play, so if you position the clevis so it is hard against the hinge face when closed, it binds when open wanting to rotate more, naturally this is not possible when the threaded rod is glued into the former. Associated with this is the bulk of the aluminium clevis requires removal of a fair amount of wing skin in the hinge area to allow it to achieve the correct level to get the door flush, so here is a fix.....

    Put the aluminium clevis's to one side and use good quality ball and socket clevis's, these had M2 fixing threads and give way more twist, being more compact they also allowed for much less removal of wing to allow the doors to open.
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  13. #313
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Next was hinge fixing.

    I tried a few places without much success, in the end I found the sweet spot, the short hinge threaded rod should drop down from the top face of the door and into the ply gear mounting rail (nearest the wing leading edge, on the diagram this is below the arrow and as close to the wing skin cut out edge as possible without damaging it when drilling. You have to drill at a slight angle to avoid breaking out through the edge of the ply rail, but this is OK as you can bend the threaded rod to achieve the correct position of the ball clevis. Start by getting this one side to slide in and locate nicely before starting on the second hinge fixing. You will need to remove a small section of wing skin for the hinge (see pics) and also a slot for the second hinge (see dotted line for location reference) once you are happy with the hinge position fit the ball part of the second clevis to the hinge arm.

    With the ball fitted to the inside of the hinge arm slot in the first already tested fixing and tape the door into the correct position flush with the wing skin, and gapped to your liking, then with a long pointed tool (thick wire with a point ground at the end in my case) shine a torch into the wheel bay and line the top of the rounded edge of the ball with the shaft of your pointed tool and run this back along the line of the hinge alignment marking the vertical former with an indent, this is the former which joins the gear rails to the wing skin. This gives you the second hinge fixing location. Drill out a hole to suit the threaded rod.

    A test fit should allow both hinges to locate without strain. Once happy glue in threaded rods into both mounting holes, hold door in position with tape until glue is dry. Don't be inclined to make the gaps too small as you may find the door binds when opened, its best to be safe with a slightly larger gap than one which is too small, when painted these gaps seem to blend in and hardly get noticed.

    I sprayed the door white, just because thats what I do and applied my usual grey inside the gear wing well as per usual with my builds.

    Hope this helps.

    marcs

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  14. #314
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Worked on the air tank fitting and securing, three tanks all hooked up to give around 2.1L of air, with brake running off gear down side of valve to avoid issues if there was a leak on this circuit.

    Started on a forward battery mounting tray, the SG hawk I hear needs nose weight so are trying to the get the 3 x 2s 5000 Lipos as far in the nose as possible but easy to access. I have made a lite ply tray which is shaped to glue to the top of the nose section just forward of the front of the canopy, will be able to get 2 packs here potentially, and the third on the side of the nose gear formers. I plan on glueing in this place but are concerned about the strength of the nose area where it will be fitted - any comments on this positioning are very welcome.

    marcs

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  15. #315
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Started on the new tank former installation today, the kit is now good to go and things seem to line up nice, the new 3mm ply formers are much better than the 6mm liteply ones cut earlier so glad the change was made.

    Completed the nose gear fitting and made two of the three battery locations secure as well, have not had a chance to shoot some pics on the battery and nose gear, but will post tomorrow. Pics of tank formers etc.....

    Still not sure what powerplant to install

    marcs

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  16. #316
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Big relief.......... if all fits, not much room with it all in, but each item can be removed without major surgery. If the smoke tank was not fitted there is a nice area in between the two ducts for an equipment tray, which would be a good location generally for these items.

    As mentioned in the previous post I have made battery mounting locations for 2 out of the 3 main packs. These are 'car' type lipo packs 5000mAh capacity, built into a plastic shell and with two 4mm gold connectors at one end for connection. I had originally considered mounting the packs just forward of the front of the cockpit area, secured to the fuselage via a liteply plate, I was a little concerned over stress to the fuselage and opted to mount the packs in a different location slightly further back. There are two areas each side of the nose wheel retract formers which made natural 'holes' and these seemed ideal, the question was how to fix them in simply and without too many complexities. In the end I got some medium foam, made two ply templates to follow the shape of the 'holes' and hot wire cut two blocks with a cut out to match the pack shape. These slide into place and the packs then slid into the slightly undersize slots, the result is a nice secure location, with built in cushioning and dead easy to get at.

    Now just need another spot for the 3rd pack[]

    marcs

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  17. #317
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Liking that idea a lot Marc and shall be copying it That's something else we can measure/cut on my fuse soon

    I'm sure you have a mechanism for stopping them sliding back out in a prolonged vertical??

    M

  18. #318
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Velcro.....

  19. #319
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Still not sure what powerplant to install
    Personally prefer the fan option Marc...awesome piece of engineering...

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    Dom Mitchell (YouTube: Essential RC)
    http://www.facebook.com/groups/essentialRC

  20. #320

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    I have a question or two.

    You don't plan on removing these lipos to charge them out of the airframe correct? If the stay inside....is the case of the lipo fire proof?



    Justin
    www.sandsconcepts.com

  21. #321
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Justin I do not believe they are 'fire' proof, the instructions suggest they are removed before charging. In the format they are in its just an additional safety feature to prevent damage occuring due to handling and possible puncture. All three packs will be removable by lifting the forward pilot seat cockpit base.

    marcs


  22. #322
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Added the mounting for the third battery, in the end I used the left over back plate from the nose hatch kit and used this to mount two thin ply cradle's to, then positioned it so it was under the cockpit side panels which have a bulge in this area for the instrument clusters. I plan on using the same method for the other side to house the two smaller Lipos for the lights and smoke pump power, and if it fit the light module.

    Finished off the hatch wiring, hooked and wired the charging points for 2 x Rx, 1 x smoke and 1 x lights, added switches for smoke and lights. Will complete the battery leads, most of which are now made to length, and make up the data link cable t the correct length for the ecu.

    Plumbed the smoke tank with some Festo push fit fittings onto brass pipe running back to vent and fill/pump feed union, this way the smoke tank can be removed easily and quickly.

    While finally fitting the smoke tank it became apparent that the equipment panels I made would not slide into place due to the incline of the wooden former they are mounted to, so had to remake them, fortunately this time I decided to get them drawn to DXF files so my friend could cut them on his cnc machine, this way I can if any one wants cut further sets. The purpose of these trays is to provide somewhere to mount the air valves, sequencer, powerbox/rx's and ECU for the Jetcat so that they remain with the main rear fuselage section when divided as most of the electronics are in this section, they also replace the ply towers the gear door cylinders mount to so doubling up their purpose. The trays fit when assembled behind the sloping rear cockpit panel so are easy to get to when the cockpit floor mouldings are removed.

    If you would like these parts let me know via a PM

    marcs
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  23. #323
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    A few jobs done since last time....
    The smoke tank required a fixing method at the front, the back has a location piece which slides under the main wing tube, but this will only work if the front is secured as well! When I removed the centre section of the x-fomer to allow the smoke tank to slide in place I was always going to replace the missing former section with some kind of brace, and this has now ended up doing both jobs.

    An angled piece of aluminium was cut to shape so that when resting flat on the former ends the centre section just touched the front edge of the smoke tank, I secured the brace with two M3 bolts and installed two blind nuts on the back of the former, with this bolted firmly in place I drew a line where the brace ran across the smoke tank, removed the brace and tank and glued a piece of ply to the tank a mm or so below the marked line, when dry this ply provided a ridge onto which the brace rested providing downwards pressure and preventing the smoke tank from moving in any direction. When all bolted up the tank does not move at all.

    Next I routed the smoke tank vent and fill/delivery pipework back down the inside of the gear wells, the vent running in brass pipe to the vent nipple, and the fill/delivery again in brass to a Festo M3 Y fitting to split to pump and fill. I added a Festo push-fit connector to the smoke tank tygon tube which connects to the ends of the brass pipes, this allows a quick removal of the smoke tank. Leak tested the whole system.

    With most of the main fuselage components made and ready to fit now I have started to work out wiring and plumbing runs etc. I wanted to add a shut off valve to the smoke pump, and naturally one to the main fuel pump, what i did not want to do was make the access to these tricky, but unfortunately with the way the valves are designed with the little plastic lever they are not the easiest to conceal. First job was to remove the plastic lever, this was achieved in my small chop saw, clamping the valve in the saws jaws while the saw sliced the lever off like a nice piece of salami!

    I then drilled using a small pillar drill a 2.5mm hole 5mm or so into the centre of the now flat lever face, tapped this to M3 and screwed in a small dome headed M3 bolt and washer. The fit of M3 into a plastic thread is very strong but did add some cyano to make sure it stayed secure. This gave me an option to open and close the valve with a 2mm hex, something that could be done via a small hole in the fuselage, something the Hawk has an abundance of. The smoke tank valve is now in place, secured to the former which holds the pump, lined up with a small 3mm hole in the fuselage side above the wing - I checked the valves were not damaged in the conversion by testing in water up to 150psi.

    Next job I tackled were the slots for the two rear ventral fins. I always break out in a cold sweat before these jobs, as cutting into the fuselage could potentially end in disaster. The slots are straight and fairly long, so used a method which had worked for me on a few jobs like this before. Thin metal ruler (not your best one) two sided foam tape (3M make the best) X-Acto knife with saw blade and a cut back junior hack saw blade.

    First add three small pads of two sided tape to the ruler, place ruler in line with the slot required, along the edge of the slot not in the middle, the ruler will flex a little to follow the fuselage contour, fortunately the contour is gentle so the ruler can cope with it. Next I break the surface coat using the hack saw blade, this is ground back around 45 degrees so one of the teeth is right on the tip, this sharp point can be run along the ruler edge to break the surface coating and will eventually with repeated strokes start to break through the fuselage skin. When this starts I move on to the X-Acto saw blade which is thicker than the hack saw blade and slowly saw the slot open along its length, making sure to keep the blade up against the ruler edge. Once this is done you have a slot, which should be nice and straight, only its not wide enough for the fins to fit. Next I use a piece of Permagrit sanding material, this is the stuff you get to replace the sanding blocks with and is a thin flat item with a double sided adhesive on the back - I fold this in half, so it sticks together and you then have a thin two sided sanding file.

    I take this and run the edge of the sanding file back and forth along the ruler edge, this slowly opens up the slot made to the width of the sanding file, once done along the length the slot is now the correct size to fit the fins.

    Now all I have to do is work out a nice simple way to make the fins removable, without having to remove the thrust pipe!

    marcs
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  24. #324
    Ali's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Why removable ventral fins?
    where in the fuselage is the shut off valve located? Ideally I would like to avoid making fuel lines longer than necessary.
    Al's Hobbies, Horizon Hobby, Airworld, BVM, Jet Cat, Skymaster, Rc Jet Centre,pull over, Tomahawk, C-ARF, Jet-Teng,Kingtech

  25. #325
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Marc,

    Valve operated via hex bolt is nice idea buy a bit risky? How will you know if the valve is open or closed if you can't easily see it - it's OK if you absolutely 100% remember to open/close before/after each flight, start and refuelling. Also, the only time you truly need to get to these valves is when things are all going wrong so fiddling with a hex through a tiny hole may not be ideal? I put my valve just inside the gear door opening as this is the biggest opening on the SG hawk.

    Sorry - not trying to pee on your fire [&:]

    m


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