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  1. #426
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Cheers Countryboy.

    I finished of the canopy frame fixing the other night, really worried about applying glue and then getting it everywhere , even with everything covered, so opted for a two method fixing variant. I can see Ali shuddering, maybe even Greg at the though of screws! yes screws indeed It was dead easy to fit the frame over the canopy, line it up and work out the best place to run a row of tiny screws along each side - then I drew a line and drilled 1mm holes every 30mm along the length of the lower sides of the frame. Refitting I was able to adjust the frame to get it just right and taped it in place, then drilled through the holes into the inner frame section, countersunk each hole so the screw sits just below the surface. With both sides screwed I was able to pipe MMR into the front and rear arch sections of the frame to fix them, also ran a thin bead of MMR along the inside edges of the frame as there is a slight recess. The screws look like those already on the frame as mouldings, so could be left or lightly covered in pin hole filler and sanded flush - customers choice.

    The data cable back from the JC switch panel which sits right up in the nose required to be longer than supplied, so bought some 6 core telecoms cable and plugs and made a socket box which sits on the fuselage side, a shorter lead connected to the JC ECU box simply plugs into this when the front fuselage section is joined. A similar job was done on the Powerbox switch, using the Tyco connectors that are fitted as standard a plug plate was made so the lead fitted to the Powerbox can be simply plugged in when the nose section is joined.

    Gear: The gear has caused a few problems from the beginning, as one leg seemed to be welded at the wrong angle, it just would not fit the mounting plates in the wing, and after loads of measuring and input from friends to check my sanity the gear leg was pinpointed as the culprit. Not sure the issue would be fixed by Skygate (we did call and discuss, but did not get "no worries I will replace them, just send them back" reply, just something closer to " there is nothing wrong with them" reply!)
    So the leg in question was cut along the welded joint, and has been sitting around in this condition until yesterday when I took the jigged leg to my welding friend who tacked it in place for test fitting, well guess what it fits now [>:]

    A while back I joined the two halves of the main gear leg covers, not really thinking at the time about how they fitted (kind of thought the slid on!) The joints were very ropey and it took a while to fill and sand and get them looking decent - now I had to cut them in half again! Plonker. I ran them through my bandsaw, and at least now the joint is dead right and will be a cinch to join (oh well learn't not to do that again)

    The first part of the gear assembly I wanted to tackle was the linkage to the small door, which from comments on threads is a real pain in the butt. The Hawk I am building has the template for the linkage fixing close to the leading edge of the small door, earlier models have it on the rear, the FS has it close to the leading edge so I guess this has been changed to keep the 'scale' element right. Finding the best location is where the fun starts. I was going to make my usual clear gear door, so that I can see through it to work out the best location for the linkage , but this was going to be tricky as the hinge on the door was fitted, located by a template that is supplied in the kit, so the only variant was how it was going to fit on the gear leg.

    I started by marking on the wing surface just where the hole in the linkage horn on the small door was when the door was closed, this gave me a length to work to. I opened the door and dropped the gear leg, again measuring roughly how long a linkage was going to need to be to give the full open position. Once I knew roughly where the fixing was going to need mounting to the leg I made a series of temporary brackets which I fixed to the flat face of the lower gear leg with double sided tape, then using a simple bent wire I experimented until the door opened fully, and when the gear was retracted the door was fully closed. I marked the hole position of this correct location through to the leg, then drilled it out to 1.5mm and tapped it with an M2 thread. A double ended ball clevis joins the two together, the fixing at the gear leg end being left longer to give the angle the linkage requires when fully open. I tiny piece of small bore fuel tube is sandwiched between the clevis and the gear leg to allow the clevis to move down the M2 bolts shaft slightly when in use.

    The location of the hole in the gear leg is almost bang on half way across the flat face and right on the point where the square section is welded to the round gear tube section.

    Next I will get the leg welded properly and fit the covers, brake housing and pipes etc.

    marcs
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  2. #427

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Hi Marc,

    Your work continues to amaze me - brilliant! I have a Tomahawk Hawk arriving in the next few weeks, just payed so I feel poor. Far from i a rush but wondering how you were getting on with your ducting kit for the Tomahawk?

    regards Craig.

  3. #428
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Craig,

    Marc's been busy with lots of pies needing lots of fingers in time for JP. I think (hope! ) we will get together shortly after JetPower and finish the prototyping on my Tommy Hawk. Right now it is sat in the corner having had it's inner guts ripped (dremelled) out for design of the new formers which, incidently, fit beautifully

    Rgds,
    Mark

  4. #429
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Tobba, hi.
    Yes hope to get back onto it after JP, tank and formers to mount it are done, as are the new formers for the turbine bypass etc.
    Ducting I will tackle on return.

    marc.

  5. #430

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Hi Marc and Mark,

    Thanks guys for your responses. Sounds like very busy times for all. Absolutely understand, and no rush for me at all. I have made a commitment in my head to finish the model I'm on before I begin diving into the Hawk.

    Thanks again for the thread Marc, this is priceless information and reference for me, and opportunity to steal a few (many) tips towards making a better model.

    Thanks Craig.


  6. #431
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    OK focus time, resumed work on the Hawk and should now get the wings sorted reasonably fast provided no issues arise!

    The linkage to the small door from the main gear leg needed a little tweaking as it was tending to pull the door slightly out of alignment when closed, and I also found the linkage was just catching on the retract frame when fully closed resulting in a slight 'kick up' on one edge of the door.
    The fix was to give the linkage a slight bend to align the ball links better at the two fixing points, I also removed the small piece of fuel tube which acted as a 'thrust' washer with a sleeve of aluminium tube which allows the ball to rotate its full designed motion without snagging.

    I have glued the lower half of the 'scale' leg cover to the gear, which required a little adjusting to give clearance around the linkage point and the retract case when closed.

    The leg cover is touching the top wing skin when closed so will check this is not restricting the closing position, if it does I will shim up the leg a little with some FR4 plates, its going to be no more the 1-1.5mm at most.

    The main door seems to rest nicely in position, pretty flush with the wing surface so there should not be too much adjustments needed here although I did notice that due to the linkage geometry the small door does not immediately open when the gear leg rises and there might be a case of the two door edges catching. If this does happen I will fit a small strip of aluminium plate to the small door which will protrude from the closing edge and be angled so as to guide the main door under it during the opening sequence.

    marcs
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  7. #432
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Glued a small piece of lite ply into the rebate on the gear leg so I could screw the brake moulding in place and make it removable, re-fitted the moulding and wheel and routed the brake line through a clip and plan to run the line down inside the second half of the gear leg cover to keep it well out of the way.

    marcs

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  8. #433
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    First of the mains sorted and fitted, just the main door to fix to gear leg cover and final fine tuning.
    Used 4mm (gear) and 3mm (brake) bulkhead twist connects for the feeds as it provides a simple option with a degree of ease in rigging as one part of the connection is fixed. Air lines protected with nylon sleeving.

    marcs

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  9. #434
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Fitted one of the main gear doors last night.
    You are required to shape the internal area of the door moulding to give a flush fit, this i did with a curved permagrit sanding block, and after trail and fit a nice snug fit was achieved.
    I positioned the door and applied a few 'blobs' of glue to fix the gear door, taped it in place to maintain even gaps around the perimeter, after drying over night I opened the gear and added more Aeropoxy around the gear leg and door to strengthen the 'blob' trying to keep it neat and tidy.

    Before I fitted the main door I noticed that due to the hinge geometry the small door has a slight delay before it starts opening as the main leg rises, this results in the small door getting 'trapped' under the main door as it opens, not good! I had a similar issue a few years back with a BVM Mig15, and fixed this by making a small aluminium lip on the edge of the door so that when the doors were shut the lip overlapped the opposing door edge. When the doors moved the lip guided the small door up as the main door slid under the lip. I have made a similar aluminium plate for the small door, and once the aeropoxy has fully dried I will fix this to the small door and test it works as before. All that will be noticeable once fitted is a small 'kick' on the edge of the small door.

    marcs
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  10. #435
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Have now fitted the wing door lip mod, and as on the Mig15 it works a treat.
    Cut the opening for the wing tip nav lights, the supplied units for these are very bright LED's mounted on a little pcb board, the only issue here is the board is almost as big as the opening, which does not leave much room to fit it. I decided to swap the two supplied units for a different version of the same items from Flugmodellbau, the company who supply the lighting kits for the SG hawk, I was able to do a straight swap at Jetpower with the old for new items.
    The new units have the LED's mounted on an aluminium tube, which acts as a heat sink but also takes up significantly less space.
    I made a small template and cut two pieces of aluminium sheet to make the 'reflectors' for the wing tip light, one I punched a hole out of to accept the LED, and both will be glued in to the opening and covered with the supplied 'lens cover'

    marcs
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  11. #436
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Started adding the vortex generators and nav light cover tonight.
    The aluminium nav light reflectors were fixed with some epoxy and taped to dry, then once fixed the lens cover supplied was cut to fit the rebate that surrounds the location of the nav light. I was going to fix with small screws but then decided best to use some silicone glue and do a permanent job.
    I find gluing these things in place can often get messy and glue goes over parts of the cover that shows, so this time I took the longer solution, first taped the cover in place, then lifted one side and applied a thin bead of silicone glue and dropped back into place, once this has dried I will lift the other side and repeat the process.

    Next job was fitting the 8 vortex generators onto the top wing surface, these are supplied cnc'd from FR4 board and have two little prongs sticking out the base to help fix to the wing. So first job was to make a hole drilling template so the holes were all in the right place. I sanded the FR4 panel that contained the 18 supplied vortex generators first as its easier to do it now rather than after removing them! I removed one and used this to mark the location of the prongs onto a thin piece of FR4, aligning these locations so the end of the vortex generator was flush with the edge of the marked FR4 template. I drilled two holes just big enough to accept the prongs and about half their maximum width.

    Next I sanded the wing in the areas of all the vortex generators and wing fences so the glue had a good surface to purchase to. I ran a strip of masking tape along the edge of the little mouldings which give the front edge of the units, I then added a strip of tape to the edge of the moulding running backwards from the leading edge. These tapes intersected at the tip of the vortex generators and gave me a location to align the template for the hole positions for each. I drilled the 16 holes required and removed the tape leaving a neat line of locations.

    I used a small block of wood to position the generators at the correct angle, pushed them into the wing until flush and then set with a drop of thin cyano applied using the end of a cocktail stick. Once all were done I masked each again just outside the holes, leaving around a 1mm bead both sides of the VG's, then using the syringe and a home made thin cyano tip, I applied a thin bead of Aeropoxy along each side. Then using cotton buds (Q tips) I wiped the excess off to leave a thin bead, finally removing the masking tape gives a neat and very tidy job. Drying now overnight.

    marcs

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  12. #437
    UKR-Jet's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Greetings Marc!
    As always! A neat job!
    Manufacture Jet of models, the Landing gear, Pipes and Nozzles and other parts...

  13. #438
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Added most of the top side aerials and probes etc, I always struggle a bit lining things up, especially when the fuselage moulding join lines are never in the middle of the fuselage [>:] it kind of throws you off balance. I used a laser level to align the fin and wings earlier on in the build so set this up again and ran a line down the fusleage centreline to the fin, this allowed me to line up the nose probe shroud and the small antenna on the nose section.

    If anyone has a drawing or good photo of the main antenna on the top of the fuselage between the vents please post as I am struggling to find a good picture from which to align this item.

    The nose pitot shroud I made removable, a carbon pin in the front of the shroud aligns in a hole drilled just behind the nose light cover in the fuselage, at the rear a small screw is fitted from the inside of the fuselage using the nose gear door opening for access.
    I strengthened the fix for the air vent on the lower RHS by drilling two 1mm holes through the vent moulding and after glueing in place drilled the holes made earlier through into the fusleage, then added two steel pins through these holes into the fuselage where they were glued from the inside.
    The moulding at the rear by the tail was glued and fixed using small screws to resemble the FS Hawk.

    Added a multiplex connector to the fuselage under the fin, and terminated the rudder servo connection to suit.

    Being an idiot I managed to drill 14 holes in the wrong position [:@] on the second wing for the vortex generators, went through masking the whole thing as per wing 1 then using the template drilled on the wrong side of the tape - so an hour or so later I had 14 filled holes, and a new set of holes drilled in the right position this time! Fitted the VG's as per wing 1.

    Wired and routed the 4 satelite receivers tonight as well, one on the tank face (fairly central in the fuselage) one mid way down the front fuselage section, one in the nose area and finally one back roughly in line with the aluminium vents mid way down the rear fusleage section. This last one was going to be tricky to do without removing a whole load of gear which I did not really want to do, so, made a 'wand' from a small pad of ply fixed to the end of a length of hard balsa strip, I found a place to secure it so that the end with the ply plate (where the receiver would be velcro'd) ended up deep inside the fuselage, but the fixing point was next to the powerbox LCD unit just behind the cockpit rear plate, so easy to get to. Painted it black, just because thats what I do and glued the mounting block alongside the PB LCD unit.

    Almost ready for the C of G set-up now, just need a break in the wind to give me a chance to get the assembled hawk outside where I will then have room to do the balancing, unfortunately I can only get one wing on in my garage!

    marcs

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  14. #439
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Any use?

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  15. #440
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Brill - cheers

  16. #441

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Here's another picture of the real Swiss aircraft and a red arrows from the top.
    The antenna on the (swiss) model seems to be a bit far forward.

    Remco45

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  17. #442

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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Great thread with awesome details.....

    Picked up Don Winn's SG Hawk last year but will likely be selling it due to lack of time to go out flying.

    You can see it if you do a search on youtube for Kentucy Jets 2008.

    If anyone is interested let me know and we can talk before I "officially" post for sale.

    Bill

  18. #443
    Countryboy's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    ORIGINAL: Hinckley Bill

    Great thread with awesome details.....

    Picked up Don Winn's SG Hawk last year but will likely be selling it due to lack of time to go out flying.

    You can see it if you do a search on youtube for Kentucy Jets 2008.

    If anyone is interested let me know and we can talk before I ''officially'' post for sale.

    Bill
    Here are a few pics of the Hawk Bill speaks of.
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  19. #444
    Countryboy's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    A few more.
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  20. #445
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Nice looking Hawk, with plenty of 'nice' touches -

    Progress on the Hawk involved a test C of G balance over the weekend, unfortunately my workshop is not big enough to get both wings on and work around, so luckily the weather stayed cold but dry on Sunday, so out we went.....

    To measure the C of G I needed some kind of balance device, many have been posted here on the forums, and from some of these I took some inspiration and added my own twist. It sure wasn't going to be balance it on the finger tips, also being outside I could not 'hang' it either so I bought a 50cm length of rectangular steel tube, two lengths of steel wire, a couple of metal fence repair plates and some cable clamps.

    The plates had a 2mm hole drilled through the centre, I passed the wire through these and screwed up tight a clamp on each end preventing the wire from pulling through. I added some foam pads to the base of the plates as these would be holding the airframe so did not want to damage the fuselage. I marked the C of G on the fuselage sides (305mm back from LE). I measured the width of the fuselage at this C of G point and then drilled two 2mm holes right through the rectangular steel tube the same distance apart as the fuselage width at the wing root points.

    I assembled the Hawk, and placed two tressel stands astride of each wing, then placed the steel tube on the top of each so it bridged the Hawk. The steel wires were passed up between the wing and the fuselage and then through the holes in the steel tube. Once this was done I took up the slack in the wires, so the plates were nicely under the wing and fuselage at the C of G points (I marked the top of the fuselage so as the wire passed up through you could see it was on the correct point) and then fitted another clamp to the wire with a washer underneath. The result was a 'suspension' type frame.
    To see how it balanced a friend and I lifted the steel tube together from each end and slid a small block of wood under to raise the Hawk off the ground. This provided the method to check C of G. You can move the plates back or forwards to select different balance points, and after each balance session you can remove the blocks to lower the jet to the ground for safety between measurements. Cheap method, about £10 in materials, and worked a treat.

    Another option here is you can add two more lengths of steel tube across the tressels, place a set of bathroom scales on these and slide the balancer steel tube onto the scales to get the total weight (remember to remove the weight of the steel tube, wire and plates after)

    Well after all this it was nose heavy, big time in fact, Milky suggested it would be beforehand, and he was right I had placed three big packs right up front, and this coupled with the cockpit set and one pilot (which in itself is a heavy set-up) was just too much. I seem to remember we needed 3kg on the tail to get it to balance [X(]

    We removed the packs from the forward location and positioned them in various places along the fuselage to see where we could get the best compromise between balance point and possible new battery location. After some testing we settled on a point where we required 980g on the tail. The AUW which resulted was 25.5kg including the 980g tail weight. After the Hawk is painted there will be a slight increase in weight, but as the tail section will weight more as a result of this we should be able to remove some tail ballast to offset this.

    Considering what this Hawk has in it, it seems respectable - P200, smoke system, pump and 2.5L smoke tank, full ducting, full bypass, new 6.5L main tank and side opening cockpit system with full cockpit set.

    marcs
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  21. #446
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Well after all this it was nose heavy, big time in fact, Milky suggested I would be beforehand, and he was right
    Not going to say I told you so, but I told you so [8D]

    Glad to see the CofG testing is as eloborate and over engineered as everything else you do LOL

  22. #447
    David Gladwin's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Marc, you do do things the hard way ! Easy and accurate C of G calculation:

    Place model nose against wall,measure the distance of each wheel axle, main and nose, to wall. (you can use any other datum point you wish but a wall is often convenient) Place scales under each main wheel and pack up nose so that the machine is level, note weight.

    Then measure weight on nosewheel.

    Multiply TOTAL weight on main wheels by distance from wall. Moment A.
    Multiply weight on nose gear times distance from wall. Moment B.

    Add A + B to obtain total moments.

    Divide value of A+B by TOTAL weight and that will give you exact distance of C of G from wall, ie nose.

    To adjust, I tape a paper cup to nose or tail and add fishing weights to get C of G exactly correct.

    Easy , quick accurate and free, can easily be done by one person, and prevents hernias. Works on 747s too, honest !

    David.

  23. #448
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Agree with David.

    Having said that, when I worked mine out I thought I'd done the maths wrong as I needed so much weight in the tail so I did it the old fashioned way only to find the maths were right!!!

    The important thing not to miss is to ensure that if you only have one scale, to pack up the other 2 wheels so they're level. If you don't do this it all goes awry!

    M


  24. #449
    marc s's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Moving on from the C of G testing I needed to relocate the packs, finding a suitable location in this very 'full' jet was going to be fun!
    I hope to move the ECU pack back to the rear of the nose section right under the ECU, which would be ideal, the two Powerbox packs I really needed to get back behind the C of G, back here potentially required me removing all the ducts, bypasses, tanks etc, which although not difficult, is a lengthy job - so what options had I?

    I studied the Hawk a few times and looked at the void under the front of the turbine bypass, this opening is cut out on each side of the fuselage and is behind the main wing tube and in front of the rear wing tube points. Looked like a possibility, just needed to experiment a little with how to get packs in here and out again easily!

    The final solution was a ply plate which slid through from one side to the other, to this I made four slots to pass velcro straps through to secure the two packs to. To get a fixing point I cut two small ply plates and added an nice mix of epoxy and filler to the areas just inside the cut-outs on each side of the fuselage where the plate would traverse, making sure the epoxy was just above the edge so that when the small ply pads were added they required a slight compression to get them level with the bottom edge of the fuselage cut-outs. To get this right I glued and added the ply pads to each side, gently resting on the epoxy, and then passed the battery mounting plate through the fuselage and when located rested it down on the ply pads compressing them to the correct position. (I had left the battery ply plate wider than the fuselage at this point so it would not go lower than the fuselage lower cut-out line)

    Left this overnight. In the morning drilled two holes on each side through from the bottom of the fuselage through the pads and through the battery plate (making sure it was aligned correctly), added blind nuts to the battery plate, counter-sunk the holes in the fuselage to accept M3 CS bolts.

    The batteries are velcro'd one each side (2s 4300 packs) of the ply plate with the tails pointing towards the fuselage cut-out so they can be connected/removed easily. The unit then slides in and 4 bolts hold it in place, there is room above and below the two packs, so nothing can rub or damage the lipos.

    This seems to work well, and certainly provides a useful space for things should you need 'extra' - and easily removed without having to take out the cockpit which is always a bonus.

    marcs



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  25. #450
    schroedm's Avatar
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    RE: Skygate Hawk - build (virtual manual)

    Exactly where mine went


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