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  1. #151

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I'm not doing very well with the Hydraulic conversion. I hooked it all up and was cycling the gear trying to get all the air out. After about ten cycles (not continuously) the controller started smoking heavily and has burnt out. I was using the lowest setting and it wasn't achieving a full up and down cycle before it burnt out. **** am I getting hacked off with this Mig. Anyone want to buy one!!



    John
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  2. #152
    F15driver's Avatar
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    John,

    Sorry to hear your controller burned out. I haven't tried mine yet as the Mig 29 is still in the box awaiting completion of the Yellow F-15. Did you fill the cylinders with oil before running the system? I will probably get to mine next week so I'll post results here when I test it outside the airplane.
    Ian, what have been your test results?

    Regards,
    Rob
    Don't look back, they may be gaining on you!

  3. #153
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I took the plunge & ordered one through Jeff Sewell. I hope Jet Legend's revised landing gear works properly. If not, I will have to go down the hydraulic route as well.
    JET FLYING:- Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

  4. #154
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I have not gotten mine running yet Rob, I have been trying to layout the equipment board and run all the plumbing. Its tough since I don't have all of the equipment yet going in the plane so I have to give a lot of forethought to what is going in the plane. As soon as I have the system hooked up I will report on it.

    What battery were you using John when the controller burned out? I am thinking maybe too much voltage?

  5. #155

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I was using a 7.2v 2 cell lipo. I was trying to bleed all the air out, which I found quite hard. I got a couple of successful cycles and then the mains started to stop half way up, without the red light coming on. Next thing clouds of smoke came out of the controller. When the mains were down I could still hand force them up, which was a bit worrying, but perhaps it was that there was still air in the system. The other possibility though is that the oil is bypassing the rubber sealing rings on the pistons. I have re-ordered a couple of new controllers, but if the original delivery is anything to go by it will be next year before they arrive.


    John
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  6. #156

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I was hoping to have some U/C spares from JL on an order I received last week but bloody DHL haven't delivered the last box and I bet they've lost it. I'm most of the way through my build but am reluctant to go any further until the new mod arrives.

    I'll chase them up again....

    Jeff
    Exclusive UK JetLegend Dealer

  7. #157
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Has anyone in the USA ordered and have in their possession one of the UMS hydraulic systems and decided not to use it. If so and you want to part with it, please send a PM my way with details.

    Ronnie


  8. #158

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Turns out that the spares were not in the lost box but JL are going to forward them with the next order pretty soon...

    John - they're sending the upgraded parts for us so we'll be good to go...

    Jeff
    Exclusive UK JetLegend Dealer

  9. #159
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum


    ORIGINAL: johnls

    I was using a 7.2v 2 cell lipo. I was trying to bleed all the air out, which I found quite hard. I got a couple of successful cycles and then the mains started to stop half way up, without the red light coming on. Next thing clouds of smoke came out of the controller. When the mains were down I could still hand force them up, which was a bit worrying, but perhaps it was that there was still air in the system. The other possibility though is that the oil is bypassing the rubber sealing rings on the pistons. I have re-ordered a couple of new controllers, but if the original delivery is anything to go by it will be next year before they arrive.


    John

    John, how was your oil tank oriented? I remember Bart saying something about holding the tank vertically when bleeding the system. If you have any air in the system then yes, the gear will be able to be compressed.

  10. #160
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Here is what Bart said to do to bleed the system:

    The cylinders are so big that they self bleed after about 3 cycles, just pre-fill the reservoir before you do the final hook up. It is important tp get all the air out and I got the last of it out by standing the plane on its end and cycling the gear a couple of more times. You also need to be able to top up the reservoir after the commissioning.

    This I do while the plane is standing on its end (So that my tank fittings are at the top) and remove the suction line from the pump and connect a squeeze bottle full of oil to it and remove the return line from the reservoir, give the bottle a squeeze and watch the oil level in the reservoir and fill to about 80%. Might seem a bit fidly but you only ever need to do it once unless you get a leak.

    One important thing to note, when you first start the system, the pump will be dry which is fine as the pump will self prime quite happily under normal conditions, however the check valve on the pressure line will stop this happening until the pump actually gets oil in it. So you need to make sure to pre-fill the suction line right to the pump if you can or remove the check valve for the first few cycles. Once the pump is primed just drop the check valve back in the line. This you only need to do if you dis-connect the suction line and let the air in.

  11. #161
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Ian,

    A question on the controller. The 2 short lines on my controller are black and red and the 2 long lines are red and blue. The instructions say to hook up the 2 long line (black and red) to the battery. Since the 2 long lines aren't as described, I'm a little unclear as to which set goes to the battery. Normally here in the US black and red are always battery lines. How did you hook up yours?

    Regards,
    Rob
    Don't look back, they may be gaining on you!

  12. #162

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    I have the blue and red to the pump and red and black to the battery. It works ok.



    JOhn
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  13. #163
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Rob, I would follow Johns advice, RED and BLUE should be for the pump and BLACK and RED should be for the battery.

  14. #164
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum


    ORIGINAL: Jascat100

    I took the plunge & ordered one through Jeff Sewell. I hope Jet Legend's revised landing gear works properly. If not, I will have to go down the hydraulic route as well.
    Me too Jascat, Placed my order with Jeff lastweek. I have decided on a Czech AF camo scheme. Like you I will try it with the new air retract system and if it doesn't work I will order the Hydraulic system (stopping only long enough to let Jeff's tyres down ).

  15. #165

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    F15 driver
    On my controller also the short lines are black and red and the longer lines are red and blue , and that is not according with UMS instructions I received and posted 11/1/2010 .My apologies to ianober and all of you.
    I will also follow Johns advice - RED and BLUE for the pump , and BLACK and RED for the battery.
    Thanks and Regards
    Dragan

  16. #166
    F15driver's Avatar
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Ian, John, Bart, et. al.

    Finally completed the F-15 and have now set up my test of the UMS system for the Mig 29. I set it up on a test board outside the airplane to see if it would work as advertised. It did and it worked beautifully. Ian made me three new pistons to fit inside the three cylinders and they have worked perfectly. I bled the system of as much air as possible by filling the reservoir, moving each retract both ways to fill each cylinder while drawing from the reservoir. After nearly all the lines were free of bubbles, I hooked them to the return line to the reservoir and turned on the system. It worked the first time although I had to turn the adjusting screw in the controller to about half way. Now, after the gear is at one end or the other, the pump runs for about 6-8 seconds to further pressure the system. I'm using a small 6 volt battery with a capacity of 2000 ma. It seems only good for about 6 cycles before it drops below 6 volts and seems a little weak on running the pump for that 6-8 seconds. After John burned out his controller with a higher voltage battery, I'm a little reluctant to try an A123 which would seem to be perfect for this system because of its fairly flat discharge rate. The A123 is rated at 6.6 volts and 2300 ma, but on a full charge it reads about 7.4 volts. Anyone have any comments on the advisability of using this battery?
    I still have a few air bubbles in one retract which I'm trying to figure out how to get out. Thought multiple cycles would do this but the bubbles just move back and forth in that one cylinder.

    First impressions of the UMS system are good. One final note. I used 3mm lines at the cylinder, stepping up to 4mm lines to the central manifold. Initially I didn't wire tie these five lines and I soon had small blow by leaks at the manifold. After wire tying, these leaks stopped. This system must generate quite a bit of pressure to cause a leak as I thought those lines were plenty tight w/o the wire ties.

    Let me hear from you guys how your test of the UMS system is coming along.

    Rob
    F15driver
    Don't look back, they may be gaining on you!

  17. #167

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Rob,
    Good to hear about your success with the UMS system. I'm not doing so well. Having had the original controller burn out I am still waiting for a replacement. Mick Burrell here in theUK, who has several models working with his own hydraulic set up, supplied me with an accumulator operating a microswitch. This removes the need for the electric controller. Still I was getting air in the system and the gear would collapse. (I have taken everything out of the Mig again to get a better look at what is going on). I can now see the problem. The UMS 5 way valve is leaking. I have tried changing the rubber O rings but still no good so I will probably be fitting a Eurokit 5 way valve and hoping for better quality.


    John
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  18. #168
    F15driver's Avatar
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Further on the UMS Hydraulic System:

    I spoke too soon in my last posting saying everything was working great on the UMS system. I, like John, recently burned out my controller. Couldn't figure out why because I had at least 20/25 cycles and everything was going great. About the same time the controller burned out I noticed the distributor valve was really hard to shift from one end to the other. I also seemed to be getting air bubbles into the system even though I hadn't removed any lines. My conclusion is that the distribution valve o-rings are incompatible with Singer sewing machine oil. This incompatibility has caused the distribution valve to essentially freeze up, putting tremendous pressure on the servo to move the valve. This increased amperage fed directly back into the controller, causing it to burn out. I have an email into the UMS tech people to discuss this issue and await their conclusions. I have not removed the piston from the distribution valve to inspect the o-rings but I'm nearly certain this is the problem. What else could cause the piston in the distribution valve to become almost impossible to move back and forth as intended? Oh, the o-rings in each of the Jet Legend retracts seem to be working just fine. No freezing up like with the distribution valve. They must have used a different type of o-ring in the retracts.

    The sewing machine oil I used is mineral based, designed specifically for Singer sewing machines. I'll await UMS's comments and post their results here when received. John, I think this is probably why your controller burned out as well. What oil did you use in your set-up? Ian, what is your status on getting your system to operate?

    Regards,
    Rob
    F15driver
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  19. #169

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    HI Rob, Interesting stuff. I am using sewing machine oil, but so is Shane (Bart). Shane just emailed me to say that he has just flown his Mig (off grass) at a 3 day meeting in Aus and everything was superb. He has fitted three pilot operated Festo check valves in the system and these eliminate the sponginess due to pipe expansion. My saga continues but I am glad to say I am progressing and can see light at the end of the tunnel! I have dispensed with UMS controller and have an accumulator , made from a robart undercarriage leg with a strong spring fitted. This means that it will move always at a consistent rate and distance, subject to pressure. It also means I can visually see if I am loosing pressure. I went through an elimination process. By blanking off the up and down lines on the 5 way valve and pressurising the system I could see that the 5 way valve was not leaking (I have now fitted a Eurokit one, more expensive, but I think better than the UMS). I then attached just one of the main undercarriage legs to the Valve and operated the system. It was rock solid (never felt it like this before). I removed this leg and attached the nose gear, the same way, and operated the system. I thought I saw a few faint bubbles in the return line, but these went after a couple of cycles and the gear was very firm. When I did the same to the last main gear. I got a flood of bubbles and the gear collapsed when the pump was switched off. Obviously fluid was leaking past the piston and into the return side in this leg. I stripped it down and re-glued the holes, in the original piston. After reassembling and re testing it appeared I had solved the problem. After leaving for a day, though, the accumulator piston had moved a few mm, indicating a reduction of pressure. Looking again at the cylinders there are visible score marks, that the original ball bearings had made in the cylinder wall. I cannot feel them but they are easy to see, and my Mig, up to then had probably done the most flights and therefore had suffered the most wear. To get the system perfect I need to replace the cylinders or manufacture new ones and I will be fitting the additional NRV's, as per Shane, to eliminate sponginess.




    John
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  20. #170
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    John/Rob

    Can you slide the cover off your controllers and take a photo of what is burnt out? I have heard of one here in Aus that also burnt out quickly and it was a capacitor on the board. I checked the cap on my board and advised Mark the rating and he fitted a suitable replacement that got the system running again and to my knowledge works fine.I bought my kits about 12 months ago and just maybe the factory has a bad batch of parts or have changed the capacitor rating?? just a thought.

    On the weekend my mig flew using a 2 cell lipo (fully charged at 8.4) and used about 180 mA for about 10 complete cycles without problems. I also flew my 1:5 Vampire which is using a 2 cell LifeP04 (UMS system) and again no problems. I guess one thing to keep in mind is that not to keep cylcing endlesly. As with any electrical system heat will build up and do damage. Let the system sit for 30 seconds between every couple of cycles to give the heat a chance to dissipate, if you can have a feel of the pump motor.

    As I have said to John, there does not seem to be any better options for the JL Mig & SU 27 U/C at present and if we can get you guys over these hurdles I think you will suddenly find that your plane is useable like I have found.

    In the next couple of nights, I will post some more diagrams and valve details of what I have put together in the final setup.

    Lastly Rob, the seals in the UMS valve are Buna N (like the cylinders) and are fully compatible with the mineral based sewing machine oil. I have the UMS system in my JL T45 hawk and it's seals have been soaking in that oil for at least 6 months without problems, I think you will have some contamination in the valve which may have jammed the spool, pop it out, clean it and re-assemble, there is not much in there. The servo that operates the spool is actually driven from your rx and not the controller, so any additional load is not seen in the controller, I have this gut feeling that it may be the same capacitor problem that Mark had...Let me know if you can - just PM if you want.
    Bart

  21. #171

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Hi Shane,
    The screw driver is pointing to the offending part.


    John
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    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.

  22. #172
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Bart, John,

    My controller burned out in the same place as John's. In fact, it got so hot in there that the surrounding area was charred as well as melting a circular area on top of the case where the capacitor is located. Bart, I disassembled the distributor valve and cleaned it thoroughly, greased it with a synthetic grease and reassembled it. Works much better, though is still too stiff a push/pull, in my opinion. Am awaiting a new controller from UMS, purchased a spare as well so if this problem occurs again I won't have to wait for the delivery from India.

    Bart, how long does your controller allow the motor to run after the retracts are fully extended or retracted? Does your red light come on at any point in the cycle? I had my adjustment screw about mid-point in its arc. The pump would run about 5-8 seconds, and the red light would come on about half way into the pump run and remain on for maybe 1-2 seconds. The light would go off before the pump reached the end of its 5-8 second run. Does this operation sound like what yours is doing? Look forward to your future posting on your final set-up.

    Regards,
    Rob



    P.S., Ian, haven't heard how you're coming along on your Mig gear. Any luck or are you sharing some of our frustration?
    Don't look back, they may be gaining on you!

  23. #173
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    No progress to report from me guys, sorry. I have not had time to install the system or mock it up for that matter. i have so many other things going on right now that it has been hard to find time. My original plan was to install the system in the plane and get it all working and be done with it but I am finding that I am going to need to take into consideration all the other equipment that is going into the plane since space is at a bit of a premium. I haven't bought all of my equipment as of yet for the plane so I may be able to get a mockup of the system using just the cylinders and see if I can get it tested for leaks or issues.

  24. #174
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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Hi guys

    Yep that is the same capacitor that burnt out on Marks unit. I have no idea what size it was as they just melt as you can see, but I will confirm tonight (got to go to work soon) as to what size is fitted in mine. A new capacitor will only cost a few cents and you should be able to get one easilly from a local electronics store.

    Rob, have a look at the vid ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMZTKeYmXsc ) and at about 1.25 you will see a shot of the overload LED and you should be able to get an idea of what it is doing from the sound of the pump. Everything is still the same other than I have now added the Festo Pilot Check Valves to lose the sponginess I should be able to post the photo's of these tonight as well.
    Bart

  25. #175

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    RE: Jetlegend Mig 29 Fulcrum

    Rob,
    My controller would sometimes do a full sequence before the red light illuminated, but at other times the gear would only be partly retracted when the red light would illuminate and stop the sequence. It would then restart on its own. This would create a problem with the door sequencing. For this reason I will probably be sticking with an accumulator and microswitch to control the pump.




    John
    CRASHING IS NOT AN OPTION.


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