bevar

My Feedback: (27)

I Agree. I know of some guys who are having tremendous difficulty transitioning to 2.4 with their Jet Cat powered jets because of static discharges causing big time issues. I also heard that some guys did not attend FJ this year because of the mandatory 2.4 requirement and they did not want to risk losing any of their jets because of the problems they had also encountered transitioning.

I did the 2.4 swap over (JR) when they first came out with the 10X module and the 9000 receiver and have not had any issues other than the one flight when I had the antenna pointed in the wrong direction. Of course, I fly Gaspar ECUs so maybe that is the difference.

B

rbxbear44

My Feedback: (86)

Craig,
Your right man! I'd even be afraid to endorse me!!! As for Boli...well, just the name brings a smile to the crowd!!!

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

The smell of the grease paint...the roar of the crowd! A hushed silence sweeps over the field as the dulled chanting of "Rex Rex Rex" permeates the still air as Rex Bryant slowly approaches the flight line with Giant FEJ F-18F and taxis out for takeoff. In stunned silence Rex takes to the air...a complex ballet of smooth stick inputs and switch flipping as his serendipitous display of steely eyed aviation culminates with a flame out and perfectly executed dead stick landing with his Giant F-18 because he forgot to as me for permission to take off!

And so it goes...

Beave

PS. Someone has the video link...so post it!

geh3

My Feedback: (84)

Question: How does static discharge cause a flameout?
I have had a number of different turbines , notably Wren, Simjet and Jet Central, also a Wren 44 TurboProp
and Ihave never had a flameout with any of them (Ialways set my timer to land with 25% or so fuel left)
I have flown in all sorts of humidity conditions as well...

THANKS

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

I might get flamed for this but the problem seems to be unique to Jetcat. The only guys I know that have had static issues were flying Jetcat turbines. I have never experienced a static issue with any of my Wrens, Jet Centrals, Merlin, or Ram turbines. Nor have I ever used any of the band aid fixes (anti-static fluid, anti-static lines, etc.).

Joe

InboundLZ

My Feedback: (10)

evoJet understands this problem and that is why evoJet uses a more static resistant 5V, U.S. made, microchip processor for the ECU. This compared to the 3V systems of others.

To date I have not had a single static problem. I do have a two local flyers flying JC that have either had an emergency landing or a crash due to a static induced flame out. Much has been written about this and it is an accepted cause and or problem.

BVM and others sell a static fluid additive that seems to cure the problem, my flying buddies use this fluid as well as a static spray for the landing gear. So far, they have not had a static induced flame out after employing this practice.

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

oh never mind....not worth it

AndyAndrews

I've never had this problem with Jetcat.

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

InboundLzL

You wrote:

I do have a two local flyers flying JC (is that Jet Cat or Jet Central) that have either had an emergency landing or a crash due to a static induced flame out. Much has been written about this and it is an accepted cause and or problem.

The challenge:
I challenge you to provide to me directly or through this forum the owners of the Jet Central turbines who as you say (if you mean Jet Central) have experienced "static induced flame out resulting in an emergency landing and or a crash." I request this, because I am not aware of it. I beleive I would be correct in saying; "if one of our customers had as you say a static induced flame out, I would definately have been advised to assist in a solution.

Further:
Our turbines simply do not have static issues. Gaspar's FADEC is as bullet proof as an ECU can get. ***** (anti static solution) as sold by one of our competitiors is simply not needed in our operation. Nor is the legendary "black" special fuel line.

Competition is good for the economy; I welcome it, however, if you sling mud, ya better have facts to back it up. Names please. . . .again, if Jet Central owners.
Best regards,
Eric Clapp

jclittle

My Feedback: (99)

OK Boli here is the famous vid of Rex and the dead stick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3kIyHO1iVc

Funny, I go to NYC for a couple of days to take care of some biz and all hell breaks loose on this forum. You would think as much time I spend in San Diego I'd have a purple turbine by now since its a east / west thing going on here. I may even stop buy CA Jets next Friday with a bunch of I love Jet Central bumper stickers How about it Eric, have you got some to send my way?

mr_matt

My Feedback: (10)

I would rather bring a thimble full of additive to the field than a truck load of fire extinguishers.

InboundLZ

My Feedback: (10)

Really, Eric????

Let's see, we were talking about JET CAT and static and somehow you equate "JC" to Jet Central, really?

As I have said before, there are many fine choices for turbines these days. I was not providing breaking news with my post about static....

I hope this clears it up.

BluFox

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks Dave. . .I appreciate your feed back. . .just wanted to clarify.

Best regards,
Eric

InboundLZ

My Feedback: (10)

It's all good!

bevar

My Feedback: (27)

>>9/24/2006
From the desk of Matt Carroll:

Static discharge

I have been to dozens of events since I started flying jets in 1997 (over 10 years now). I have seen this problem twice. I have never seen it on any of my personal planes after flying hundred and hundreds of flights in some of the most static prone weather in the world (California and Arizona deserts in all seasons). NEVER a problem. Over the gamut of model planes, I would say it is a 99.9% chance against ever seeing a static problem.

Markus Zipperer (JetCat chief engineer) has spent a lot of time and money troubleshooting this static discharge issue over the past several months. He has learned a lot and has since submitted an article on the subject for publication in what should be the next issue of JetPower magazine. So I will not go into any great detail about what static is or how it is being generated. The article will do that.

Briefly, Markus is convinced the offending static electricity is primarily generated by the fuel coming into contact with the non-electrically conductive components of the fuel system. Kevlar tanks are especially bad for this.

So why do we appear to be seeing more problems recently? Well some theories are that the planes are getting bigger and bigger, so the fuel tank size and the fuel flow are increasing as well. Tank manufacturers might now be using a different material formulation that is more susceptible to generating static, or some fuel formulations might be more or less susceptible. One thing we do know for sure is that the JetCat ECU hardware has remained virtually unchanged since it was introduced almost 5 years ago. The only major changes have been in the software from V4.0A to V5.1E currently sold. The software changes would not make the ECU any more or less prone to static charges failures. The potential for "static problems" has always been present with any electronics in our planes since day one!

We have not be able to figure out is what is different between the 0.1% of installs that suffer disruptive static discharge, and the 99.9% of the installs that never have a problem. This might be a phantom, because the complexity of the static discharge might be a problem we can ever figure out in models made as a hobby out of primarily non conductive materials. Full size aircraft use special materials and processes as well as detailed design techniques to manage static electricity build up and control the discharge. Not practical for us, at least based on what we know now.

Therefore, JetCat’s current troubleshooting strategy has been to try to reduce or eliminate the potential for generating static electricity at the source. There are 3 techniques we are exploring (BTW, these would apply to all model turbines):

1.) The first is the use electrically conducting fuel line. This seems to help a bit, but it does not address the sloshing of fuel in the big Kevlar tanks. Bob Wilcox has this line in stock as does BVM.

2.) The second is the development of a material and/or process to be used during the manufacture of the fuel tanks that make them electrically conductive. This is good long term solution, but it does not address the current fuel tank installations that everyone has now.

3.) The third strategy is the development of a simple fuel additive that would reduce the static buildup. We started testing a formulation of this material a couple of days ago. It would be a small amount of additive, less than an ounce per 5 gallons of fuel. We hold out high hopes for this option and we should know more about its effectiveness in the coming days and weeks.

BTW, yesterday I spent some time at the Fresno jet rally discussing this issue with a BVM rep who also reps another highly respected brand turbine. He was trying to monitor static charge with special test equipment that measures electric fields. I can provide his name (and the name of another BVM rep who is having trouble, again who does not fly JetCat) to anyone who privately asks. We have also seen receivers suffer a type of “latch up� (that is, just appearing dead) until their power was cycled. This has nothing to do with the JetCat ECU and to imply otherwise is just wrong, it is the static electricity discharging into the receiver.

With JetCat ECUs we are able to diagnose many types of problems. How many flame outs from other brand ECUs are occurring that are not diagnosable? How many receiver failsafes or “latch ups� (and resulting crashes) are occurring that we cannot diagnose? I do not know, nor do I want to try to find out as that does not help fix the issue!>13 WatchDog ECU processor was locked out usually from static discharge or voltage spike in power supply

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Absolutely!!!! Oh yes you are correct.... Couple drops of the elixer and you are good to go..

GSR

My Feedback: (145)

Gaspars ECUs are great little instruments but they do not have the ability to point to a static issue as the "watchdog" alert for a uncommanded shutdown that JetCat shows so you would "never" have a static shutdown in a Artes-RIght?????? PS there are many reasons for ECUS to put their hands up-had a buddy once that after had a number of flameouts-always happened on a pull up or hard rotation. Everyone said static-turned out that the power plug into the ECU was just loose enough that under those conditions the voltage dropped and the ECU shutdown the turbine. Scotty
REMEMBER JET JOE IS THE BEST KIND TURBINE-EVERYONE BUYNOW

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Ahhhh yes..... The industry leader has and will always prevail!!!

rbxbear44

My Feedback: (86)

I bet "Kingtight", the originator of this thread is probably rolling his eyeballs right about now!!! As usual, we end up with an oversized sticker and a battle of the brands for 3-4 pages!!! Kingtight...I sure hope you found your answer somewhere in your thread, man...sorry about the mess here at the end.

Enjoy the heck out of your jet, Bro!!!

"Wings level, attitude indicator in the blue"

Rex

smitty1001

My Feedback: (29)

Good Times!

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

Too bad the pied pipers toxic lullaby draws many into a false sense of security...

smitty1001

My Feedback: (29)

it's no fun when RCU has the picture upload disease!!!!!! makes all our funnies suck!

AFTERBURNER1

My Feedback: (80)

J.F

Merlin 140.

31lbs thrust, weighs less and is smaller than a JetcatP80se, provides almost 50% more thrust, accelarates faster and uses less fuel...its a no brainer.

Bye bye purple, hello Black!