kingtight

My Feedback: (1)

Hello fellow modelers .
Miniature turbine engines do they have to be so expensive? With the labour thats outsourced to foreign countries do they have to be so costly?
Overhead,labour,material,parts and insurance for workers if any, and any other incidental to produce a turbine WHY the high cost to the buyer.Thousands of dollars for a miniature engine, some medical apparatus used for life saving daily nowhere costs this much.
Someone who can explain, clarify for me and many others out there.Please don't tell me if I have to worry about the price don't buy one Iv e heard that before.I'm looking for a intelligent, and informative information.

G4guy

My Feedback: (13)

How come Ferrari's can't cost 20 grand? it is supply and demand. Turbines cost from $3,000 to $5000 because that is what us modelers are willing to pay for them. It is a simple as that.

acw

My Feedback: (1)

Another related interesting question is why 45# turbines are a lot more expensive than 20# turbines. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

racer8297

My Feedback: (13)

I agree with you G4. Supply and demand. But also remember that these motors are not produced in the same quantities that other products are. That also dictates that these motors cost more. And on top of that, there is a fair amount of labor and some exotic materials used (exotic compared to a gas or nitro motor).

We pay 800 bucks PLUS muffler for a 85cc gas motor. It isn't as balanced, has regular metals and has no ECU. Let alone the solenoids, pump motor, etc.

Turbines are a bit pricey I do admit. But maybe that is a good thing. Could you imagine if everyone could afford one and if they flew each flight like they didn't care? YIKES!

Jim

kingtight

My Feedback: (1)

I tend to disagree with all that is said so far.supply and demand, so is there a great demand worldwide for miniature turbines .I think not ,put the prices high to keep it out of irresponsible hands I think not. a trainer plane with a 40 engine can also do considerable damage and /or cause death Lets look at materials first to produce a turbine, they consist of not so many parts, so that shouldn't cost so much,LabourI THINK IS NOT SO HIGH.Comparing a Ferrari to a miniature engine is unfair and we know why . Sooo the question remains why so high prices for a engine?

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

The price is so high just to give you something to bi+ch about.

kingtight

My Feedback: (1)

tp777fo,
you know a lot....... thanks for that educated and informative reply

rcjetsaok

My Feedback: (7)

You already got educated and informative replies and you have dismissed them as untrue in any way !! All's I got to say is get ready for whats gonna happen on this thread !!!!! It's liable to get ugly !!!![sm=stupid.gif] Good luck on your quest for knowledge !!!!

Got to love it !!!!

Danno[sm=tongue_smile.gif]

tp777fo

My Feedback: (28)

You received some educated and informative answers and completely blew them off. Oh well.

PaulD

My Feedback: (39)

Aside from exotic materials and precision machining that is required to manufacture of which neither is cheap, there is a significant investment in R&D funding that must be paid back thru sales. JetJoe is a key expample of not investing in the R&D and producing pure crap. Sure, the customer gets a cheaper deal up front but I have seen them disintegrate (internal meltdown) in flight and take an airframe with it. AMT NL are some of the most expensive engines out there to purchase but those that have owned them say thier total cost of ownership is less due to the high durability, reliability and longer maintenance intervals.

In something this complex, you can't just look at the materials and labour used to make something to determine it's value.

Of course, I would love to see the volume of production increase as this would help offset R&D costs and bring the overall pricing down.

PaulD

sideshow

My Feedback: (11)

Asked and answered, except you didn't like the answers....unless it's "You're right! You got us! Send us (insert turbine manufacturer here) $500 and we'll send you our top 'o the line 50 lb thrust motor!"

Whats the point...your mind is already made up.

Countryboy

My Feedback: (25)

Just be thankful that there are talented pioneering individuals out there that are willing to offer you such a engineering marvel at such an exorbitant price.

Gordon Mc

My Feedback: (11)

So, why not develop and sell your own - just think of what a killing you can make with all of the massive profits that you seem so certain of.

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Why is comparing it to a Ferrari unfair? A Nelson 40 racing engine was $400, it's just a 40 size engine, by your logic it should cost no more than a $80 sport engine. Hell, those are even the same basic materials. Why is a DA100 twice the price of a DL100?
I think the comparison to a Ferrari is justifiable, it's a limited market, it's for those who really desire the extraordinary. You don't have to be rich to fly turbines, you just have to be willing to sacrifice. Take the electronics, the metalurgy, the machines required to produce the engine etc, there is a reason they cost so much more than a sport engine. If they didn't we'd probably have the reliability of the cheap crap sport engines too. At least the turbines today generally speaking are very reliable and consistent.

About the only real complaint I have with turbines today is, why do they get shipped in a crappy cardboard box with some foam. At least some nice packaging would be cool

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Low demand compared to say glow or gasoline motors
Higher R&D costs
Expensive 3,4 or possibly 5 axis CNC machines to machine parts
Complex Computer codes
Complex electrical systems in SMALL packages
Exotic materials for the parts in the turbine itself
certifiable welds
X-rayed turbine discs and NGV's to test for flaws in the castings
Machined exotic material castings
High precision balancing

and the main reason....

PIECE OF MIND that you are getting what you pay for. "Buy cheap, buy twice" comes to mind

Bob.R

My Feedback: (2)

I don't think I want a "cheap" motor turning 120,000 rpm with a 700 degree C exhaust temp and even higher internal temps.

Kelly W

My Feedback: (2)

Just a quick thought here...

Anyone who adamantly disagrees with turbine prices as a whole these days might see this as a business opportunity. Make a few competitive turbines, set up a successful distribution and service strategy, then undercut everyone and attempt to own the market. After the business succeeds or fails (due to inadequate profit margins and higher than expected service costs) I would suggest that the person should come back on RCU to provide the rest of us with a follow up to their original opinion...

Kelly

cremation101

My Feedback: (2)

Even low tech 2d machinery like what i use at work is quite expensive. we bougth a cnc shape cutter 1 gas torch, 1 250 amp plasma torch (the cheaper one without deionized water shield) from esab.
before setup by esab and the power supply for the plasma it was just over 300k . the software to take cad and/or inventor drawings and turn them into code was about50k for one license, they bought 4.
desinging, fabricating and building something simple like a crematorium aint nowhere near cheap. i would have a hard time imagining how much it would be for 3 and 5 axis machinery with extremely tight tolerances for something like a really small turbine would be, not to mention the software required to design model and test before building anything. then u gotta convert all the drawings into code the machinery can use to cut the parts, + material + high dollar labor.
u want high tech, u need high dollar(if u want it to last more than an hour or so (+/- 30 mins)

gjhinshaw

My Feedback: (303)

What are the Exotic materials for the parts???

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Inconel is what i consider exotic due to it not being used in everyday items.. then their are who know's what kind of other stuff ya dont see.. like polycrystalline and monocrystalline metal structures.

POWER JET

My Feedback: (3)

Yes.... because they know that we will pay for it!!!!!!!!!!..........That's why!.....

BaldEagel

My turbine is reasuringly expensive.

Mike

RobinLeblond

Turbine cie also offer great warranty, they do provide great service in helping us understand their engine and the way they work. Just think for example about all the time Eric Clapp give us, the shipping fees they sometime assume on their side, the engines they are willing to replace whatever the reason, etc. All this because of the hi complexity of those engines. This is a really hi cost for them… Time, R&D, Support, etc. Do the math, think about all this, versus the number of engine they sell and get out a salary for all their employees, you will see that 2.8k for a 22 lbs engine is a great price…

RCFlyerDan

My Feedback: (54)

Obviously, you don't understand aviation. I am a retired professional pilot operating corporate jets to B-727. Garrett engines for corporate jets when I was flying were around $2.5 million each!! There is a lot of titanium and other hard metals that go into them in order to take the high heats. Operating temperatures are in excess of 900 degrees C inside the burner can. The blades need to withstand high heats of around 500-750 degrees of C. These are expensive metals. The balancing of these blades by precision machines is costly to do, not to mention the cost of these machines and tools to work on them. I actually can't believe how cheap there are, in comparison to a full scale engine. Things just have to be more precise on jet engines compared to the glow and gas engines. Why is a DA engine cost more then some of the other engines on the market? Quality is a lot of it, customer service has a lot to do with it. Cost of marketing for small companies. High salaries to produce these engines. The list can really go on and on.

RobinLeblond

well said Dan...