BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
#53
RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: TCHIEF
wow thank goodness it wasnt a chinese arf that came apart everone would boycott
wow thank goodness it wasnt a chinese arf that came apart everone would boycott
LOL,
Very few Chinese ARFs can perform like that.
#54
RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: Ron101
I feel bad for Dustin and BVM
BVM has years and years with an outstanding flight record... one plane is flown to it's limit and everyone jumps on board to give them hell
there are three different sites all over this and one even has two threads on the same topic
I see this as a none issue.... flew to the limit and broke any plane would do the same
real sorry to see it Dustin... got another one together soon
I feel bad for Dustin and BVM
BVM has years and years with an outstanding flight record... one plane is flown to it's limit and everyone jumps on board to give them hell
there are three different sites all over this and one even has two threads on the same topic
I see this as a none issue.... flew to the limit and broke any plane would do the same
real sorry to see it Dustin... got another one together soon
Hi,
I don't see "everyone" jumping on them, just a few. Fact is, that phenomenon of people making a giant deal of such incidents has to be somewhat satisfying to BV. I don't mean the bad press part, just the hype part. It reminds me of when I was a freshman in college and it was national news (coast to coast with a 24-hour continuous video loop) when Michael Jordan missed a free-throw shot. Back in '98, Tony Gwynn went hitless for 12 or 13 at-bats, and everyone was asking whether or not he was washed-up. It wasn't until some statistician calculated that he would have had to go hitless for his next 2,311 at-bats to fall below a career .300 that everyone shut up and reflected that he was just really, really good.
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
Imagine if this was FEJ or some other ASIAN brand this would easily be a 12page thread flogging but since its BVM we all have to get along the model was simply over powered and the airframe couldnt take it and explod in a spectacular fashion sorry for your lost
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
Maybe Reps should read their companies website more often:
I was actually looking for the article "In defence of our sport" by BV, but this one is more appropriate.
I see in this bickering here the aftermath of BV trying to stop Shui's world speed record attempt with his nice article.
Biblical phrases like "He who is without sin..." come to mind.
Bart.
Air Showitis
By: Bob Violett
October 2009
A potentially dangerous affliction.
Definition: You feel that you must out perform the pilot and plane that proceeded you so that you receive more applause and adulation from the spectators. Therefore, you push the model past previously tested speeds and "G" forces in unpracticed maneuvers.
Discussion: Some famous pilots are often as guilty as those who want to become famous. The spectators that you are trying to impress have no idea that they are being exposed to a possible disaster. They are ignorant of the absolute limits of the machine and what could happen if a structural or electrical failure occurs. They brought their kids to be entertained, not unknowingly threatened.
Disaster happens occasionally in full scale airshows even though pilot proficiency and airframe integrity are closely regulated. During the past several years, I have seen multiple near disasters involving Jet Model Airplanes that suffered at the hands of pilots afflicted with "Air Showitis". So far, we have been fortunate. Common sense and responsibility should dictate that a show pilot practice his routine in the absence of spectators. Equipping the model with Telemetry devices will give the pilot real information about the model and its limitations.
With this knowledge, he can perform responsibly within the known limits and not pose a risk to innocent bystanders. After all, spectators can't recognize a 10-20 mph increase or an extra 2 G's, yet just those extras could be the infamous "straw".
We have been lucky so far, but it would be folly to keep depending on just luck. If professionalism is practiced, it will be recognized and appreciated.
By: Bob Violett
October 2009
A potentially dangerous affliction.
Definition: You feel that you must out perform the pilot and plane that proceeded you so that you receive more applause and adulation from the spectators. Therefore, you push the model past previously tested speeds and "G" forces in unpracticed maneuvers.
Discussion: Some famous pilots are often as guilty as those who want to become famous. The spectators that you are trying to impress have no idea that they are being exposed to a possible disaster. They are ignorant of the absolute limits of the machine and what could happen if a structural or electrical failure occurs. They brought their kids to be entertained, not unknowingly threatened.
Disaster happens occasionally in full scale airshows even though pilot proficiency and airframe integrity are closely regulated. During the past several years, I have seen multiple near disasters involving Jet Model Airplanes that suffered at the hands of pilots afflicted with "Air Showitis". So far, we have been fortunate. Common sense and responsibility should dictate that a show pilot practice his routine in the absence of spectators. Equipping the model with Telemetry devices will give the pilot real information about the model and its limitations.
With this knowledge, he can perform responsibly within the known limits and not pose a risk to innocent bystanders. After all, spectators can't recognize a 10-20 mph increase or an extra 2 G's, yet just those extras could be the infamous "straw".
We have been lucky so far, but it would be folly to keep depending on just luck. If professionalism is practiced, it will be recognized and appreciated.
I see in this bickering here the aftermath of BV trying to stop Shui's world speed record attempt with his nice article.
Biblical phrases like "He who is without sin..." come to mind.
Bart.
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RE: [Deleted]
I have got a ticket asking me to close this thread but for the moment will leave it running as any time a model comes apart in the air the cause should be investigated.
I have removed a couple of posts which were not directly contributing to the investigation - no more smart aleck pics please!
On a personal note that is/was one impressive combo and certainly was faaaaaast!
I have removed a couple of posts which were not directly contributing to the investigation - no more smart aleck pics please!
On a personal note that is/was one impressive combo and certainly was faaaaaast!
#58
RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
Interesting,
Looks like there IS a video of Ron after all.
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
Looks like there IS a video of Ron after all.
http://worteldrie.com/flash/emergency.swf
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
Based on Dustin's non-speculative info, the cause was an inadvertent use of the wrong elevator rates allowing him to load the airframe harder than he normally did at the end of pass. Not really an "airshowitis" or "Hey Y'all...Watch this!" moment like some of the other crashes at the Nall. Instead simply "defecation occurs."
I was not at the Nall Saturday to see this flight but sure did enjoy watching Dustin fly it on the preceding few days.
I was not at the Nall Saturday to see this flight but sure did enjoy watching Dustin fly it on the preceding few days.
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: cavandish
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
I have two Electras, one with 350 plus flights and another with 150 or so. I have had no issues with the airframes other than my own mistakes.
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: Harley Condra
It's actually closer to 6K than 8K
ORIGINAL: cavandish
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
Ron
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
If you add 2 sets of batteries it is more like 10K I know I purchased one.
Ron
Ron
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: RonLongAZ
If you add 2 sets of batteries it is more like 10K I know I purchased one.
Ron
ORIGINAL: Harley Condra
It's actually closer to 6K than 8K
ORIGINAL: cavandish
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
love the look and performance of the Electra, but 8k plus for an electric-phew
Ron
I have around 300 flights on my Electra, I broke one set of flex plates before I added the CF stiffeners, I fly off a rough grass field at home with no issues. I fly mine aggressively as well.
From posts in this thread and others the original poster is obviously on a witch hunt, and has an axe to grind.
DR
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
Oh you know you are right the extra money was for BV to build it. the electra I bought was turn key from the shop. that is why it was a few more thousand. I stand corrected.
Ron
Ron
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: Chris True
Current prices - ARF + the most expensive gear + 12S EVF2 + 2 sets of 12S packs + every JR servo, extension, switch, rx pack and regulator listed = just over $7,200. Batteries were more last year but not that much more. Dunno how you got to 10K unless you pay people to build your airplanes for you...
If you add 2 sets of batteries it is more like 10K I know I purchased one.
Ron
Ron
You can spend as much as you want, but my estimate of 6K will certainly get you going.
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RE: [Deleted]
Ok guys. As J. Dunker said above. Let's keep the personal snips and attacks out of the discussion as they do nothing but stir up trouble. We're not going to close the thread down if a few people get nasty here, but rather we will deal with those people individually. Let's keep this thread on a civil and mature level and not attack each other here.
Ken
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: TCHIEF
maybe bp oil should hire bvm reps for spin control it was only one that blew up no big deal
maybe bp oil should hire bvm reps for spin control it was only one that blew up no big deal
This isn't about spin control, Dustin explained what happened to anyone that asked, he wasn't hiding the crash or the wreckage and yes, I was there. The Electra is a proven platform, stuff happens, not everything is a consipracy, sometimes "it is what it is"...
Jack
#71
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RE: [Deleted]
I've seen lots of prop planes snap and auger in due to too much elevator. They don't have the air speed to cause catastrophic airframe damage in flight but its the same issue. I've also seen turbins explode on a straight and level run when the canopy came off. Perhaps this plane suffered from more than one issue at the moment of failure? That's more often the case in full scale accidents..
The exact cause is probably as stated by the flyer..If he's satisfied with it why not others? Just wondering.
Ya know guys.. Too much Testoserone and emotions equal.. Stupid.
The exact cause is probably as stated by the flyer..If he's satisfied with it why not others? Just wondering.
Ya know guys.. Too much Testoserone and emotions equal.. Stupid.
#72
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
ORIGINAL: jfetter
You really think a BVM jet crashing on the runway centerline @ Nall, away from everyone is the same as a 50,000 barrel/day oil leak in the Gulf of Mexico? You really need to take a look at why you post, if you hate BVM fine but for goodness sake get a grip man!
This isn't about spin control, Dustin explained what happened to anyone that asked, he wasn't hiding the crash or the wreckage and yes, I was there. The Electra is a proven platform, stuff happens, not everything is a consipracy, sometimes ''it is what it is''...
Jack
ORIGINAL: TCHIEF
maybe bp oil should hire bvm reps for spin control it was only one that blew up no big deal
maybe bp oil should hire bvm reps for spin control it was only one that blew up no big deal
This isn't about spin control, Dustin explained what happened to anyone that asked, he wasn't hiding the crash or the wreckage and yes, I was there. The Electra is a proven platform, stuff happens, not everything is a consipracy, sometimes ''it is what it is''...
Jack
#73
RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
My humble opinion, as I never posted before on the Jet section, but it's clear the speed was very very high for that airframe and the G pull at that speed is so immense that it destroyed the airplane in fractions of a second, the hard pull on the elev was the cause, it is very clear to me. If it was a design problem there will be more posts about this, and I haven's seen them.
It was bad luck and abuse on the airframe, both at the same time.
It was bad luck and abuse on the airframe, both at the same time.
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RE: BVM ELECTRA CRASH WHAT DO YOU THINK HAPPENED?????????
no SAM? seriously, too bad about your jet. it was a pretty spectacular explosion! get another one on the bench!!!
ORIGINAL: Top Buns 2006
Sorry
I had been making hard pulls at the end of the run all week, climbing and rolling straight up. This time, I had the elevator rate set for my snap roll mode instead of my lower rate. I pulled too hard. End of story. No consipiracy. No cover up.
Sorry
I had been making hard pulls at the end of the run all week, climbing and rolling straight up. This time, I had the elevator rate set for my snap roll mode instead of my lower rate. I pulled too hard. End of story. No consipiracy. No cover up.