FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
05-21-2010, 03:17 PM
#26
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
damn these jets are getting HUUUUUUGGGEEEE remember when a Bandit was considered too large to fly on DF and the F4, Kingcat etc. etc. then the boomers came along and dwarfed everything....then the Viperjet and now if it's not consuming 8' x 8' of real estate your bird looks tiny!!!! 
i reckon the A-10 won't be on top of the mountain in the experimental category much longer. that drakken is going to be fabbbb-aaaahhhllooouuussss
i reckon the A-10 won't be on top of the mountain in the experimental category much longer. that drakken is going to be fabbbb-aaaahhhllooouuussss
05-21-2010, 03:59 PM
#28
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Buck
With the size of these birds ,one need a pit crew. Ron's A10 required two to finally get it to the flight station.Even with Kevin's "BUG" one needs a volunteer to get flight line.Perhaps its do to SVF not having a paved area between the pit and flight station's (the other problem is that some our flight stations are not as wide(wing span) as these A/C require) But a sure fire way of having "Volunteers" to assist you is to have your neighbors accompany you
With the size of these birds ,one need a pit crew. Ron's A10 required two to finally get it to the flight station.Even with Kevin's "BUG" one needs a volunteer to get flight line.Perhaps its do to SVF not having a paved area between the pit and flight station's (the other problem is that some our flight stations are not as wide(wing span) as these A/C require) But a sure fire way of having "Volunteers" to assist you is to have your neighbors accompany you
05-21-2010, 04:21 PM
#30
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
haaaaa my neighbors oooohhhhhh wwweeeeeeeeeeeeee.....God bless 'dem southern Gals
Hey UJ standby for a great patriotic pic
oooohhhhhh wwweeeeeeeeeeeeee.....God bless 'dem southern GalsHey UJ standby for a great patriotic pic
ORIGINAL: uncljoe
Buck
With the size of these birds ,one need a pit crew. Ron's A10 required two to finally get it to the flight station.Even with Kevin's ''BUG'' one needs a volunteer to get flight line.Perhaps its do to SVF not having a paved area between the pit and flight station's (the other problem is that some our flight stations are not as wide(wing span) as these A/C require) But a sure fire way of having ''Volunteers'' to assist you is to have your neighbors accompany you
Buck
With the size of these birds ,one need a pit crew. Ron's A10 required two to finally get it to the flight station.Even with Kevin's ''BUG'' one needs a volunteer to get flight line.Perhaps its do to SVF not having a paved area between the pit and flight station's (the other problem is that some our flight stations are not as wide(wing span) as these A/C require) But a sure fire way of having ''Volunteers'' to assist you is to have your neighbors accompany you
05-21-2010, 05:13 PM
#32
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
haaa haaaaaaa
you got that right!!!! almost makes you want to Hummmm the star spangled banner eh?
I look forward to burning some JetA with you boys when i return. and just like Cousin Eddie "don't get too attached to my RV when i leave 2 months later"
SF old timer.
you got that right!!!!
almost makes you want to Hummmm the star spangled banner eh?I look forward to burning some JetA with you boys when i return.
and just like Cousin Eddie "don't get too attached to my RV when i leave 2 months later"SF old timer.
05-22-2010, 11:36 AM
#34
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Kevin,
How much does that thing weigh? I find it hard to believe it is under 55lbs wet.
How much does that thing weigh? I find it hard to believe it is under 55lbs wet.
ORIGINAL: Kmarks
Hello All,
So here is the down and dirty. I need to use ''Lock Tite''.
The maiden ended up succesful but I could have lost the entire bird because of 2 major problems.
1. Both rudders are set up that an aluminum rod slips into a sleeve in the rudder and has 2 hex nuts holding it tight. One rudder loosened up, and the other rudder loosened up so much that the entire aluminum rod slipped out of the rudder sleeve and was dangling inside the tail section of fuse. So problem #1 I had 2 fluddering rudders, say that fast.
2. Same principle different location. Each elevator shaft is held on by an aluminum box mechanism. This box is what the 2 servos attach to, and this entire unit is bolted to a ply former with 4 hex bolts in the rear. Once again I needed locktite. The 1 bolt completey came off and was on the bottom of the fuse and the other 3 bolts where lose. By virtue that the entire elevator did not rip off is amazing. I have since gone over all area's in question and have found that there is no damage what so ever besides a wing scrap on my wing tip.
The take off was ok, it did not jump, but once in the air it needed some trim adjustments. Thanks to Vin D. my trusted wingman for correcting input into my transmitter as I am flying.
This is a really big jet, and the color scheme can be seen by a blind man. It shows up awesome in this AZ blue sky. When we realized something was fluttering, I reduced speed and was at the opposite end of where I needed to be, she slows down really nice, and the new Fire Breathing Dragon the AMT Olympus NL performed flawless and with awesome power. I did not feel this puppy was under powered for a second. I only did one higher speed fly by maybe 85-90% full throttle and she was moving.
I Hope to have all area's checked and secure for more flighty testing weather permitting this weekend.
Oh, also any comments on the fact that this bird is sucking down close to 1100 MA per a 7 minute flight and maybe 3 minute run up and down. It has 18 servos, 4 JR 8711's, 12 Hitec 7955's, 1 JR 8411, and a small servo running an air mechanism and an EV5 unit. As comparison, my Big Fej F16 uses 370 MA per flight. This is just one thirsty hungry bird.
I lOVE IT.
Kevin
Hello All,
So here is the down and dirty. I need to use ''Lock Tite''.
The maiden ended up succesful but I could have lost the entire bird because of 2 major problems.
1. Both rudders are set up that an aluminum rod slips into a sleeve in the rudder and has 2 hex nuts holding it tight. One rudder loosened up, and the other rudder loosened up so much that the entire aluminum rod slipped out of the rudder sleeve and was dangling inside the tail section of fuse. So problem #1 I had 2 fluddering rudders, say that fast.
2. Same principle different location. Each elevator shaft is held on by an aluminum box mechanism. This box is what the 2 servos attach to, and this entire unit is bolted to a ply former with 4 hex bolts in the rear. Once again I needed locktite. The 1 bolt completey came off and was on the bottom of the fuse and the other 3 bolts where lose. By virtue that the entire elevator did not rip off is amazing. I have since gone over all area's in question and have found that there is no damage what so ever besides a wing scrap on my wing tip.
The take off was ok, it did not jump, but once in the air it needed some trim adjustments. Thanks to Vin D. my trusted wingman for correcting input into my transmitter as I am flying.
This is a really big jet, and the color scheme can be seen by a blind man. It shows up awesome in this AZ blue sky. When we realized something was fluttering, I reduced speed and was at the opposite end of where I needed to be, she slows down really nice, and the new Fire Breathing Dragon the AMT Olympus NL performed flawless and with awesome power. I did not feel this puppy was under powered for a second. I only did one higher speed fly by maybe 85-90% full throttle and she was moving.
I Hope to have all area's checked and secure for more flighty testing weather permitting this weekend.
Oh, also any comments on the fact that this bird is sucking down close to 1100 MA per a 7 minute flight and maybe 3 minute run up and down. It has 18 servos, 4 JR 8711's, 12 Hitec 7955's, 1 JR 8411, and a small servo running an air mechanism and an EV5 unit. As comparison, my Big Fej F16 uses 370 MA per flight. This is just one thirsty hungry bird.
I lOVE IT.
Kevin
05-22-2010, 12:02 PM
#35
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
If you go as simple as it can be, it can be under 55lb wet. (no operating canopy, no leading edge slats, no tail hook etc to save extra weight)
05-22-2010, 12:32 PM
#36
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
ORIGINAL: quist
Kevin,
How much does that thing weigh? I find it hard to believe it is under 55lbs wet.
Kevin,
How much does that thing weigh? I find it hard to believe it is under 55lbs wet.
Well one of the numbers is a five.
actually I have no Idea what the "Bug"weighs all I know is that IT's BIG
05-23-2010, 07:12 AM
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Wayne,
Nice shootin'; you were able to keep up - I always lose the bird when I'm filiming. Looks like Kevin launched with flaps and landed without - correct? Kevin said his CG is 200; lookedfine at that setting but he did say he'll try 190 next go 'round. Please take video of that flight as well.
Kevin, U Da Man, Baby
Mr DJ
Nice shootin'; you were able to keep up - I always lose the bird when I'm filiming. Looks like Kevin launched with flaps and landed without - correct? Kevin said his CG is 200; lookedfine at that setting but he did say he'll try 190 next go 'round. Please take video of that flight as well.
Kevin, U Da Man, Baby
Mr DJ
05-23-2010, 07:30 AM
#39
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Hi Kevin,
You're lucky on this one.
The rudder flutter made the elevator system come lose.
What saved your plane is that the elevator pivot point is placed very conservatively ( stable pivot point balance at all flight regimes ). So the elevator didn't enter in a destructive flutter coupling mode with the rudder.
Bear in mind that your plane encountered a critical airframe vibration condition and should be inspected and possibly reinforced with great care.
You'll have to take the plane apart ( remove engine, thrust tubes and nozzles ) and make sure that the internal structure did not develop cracks.
Check all vertical formers and servo / elevator system plates.
Check the rudder hinging spar for cracks as well. If the hinging spar is cracked, then you'll have to remove it to check the rudder main spar as well for cracks.
Check the left elevator shaft gluing as well. I'd put it in a vice and exert a rotation force of 20 lbs each side. If the shaft is unglued or cracks during the test process, get a new elevator from FEJ and have this one repaired by them.
Good luck,
Oli.
You're lucky on this one.
The rudder flutter made the elevator system come lose.
What saved your plane is that the elevator pivot point is placed very conservatively ( stable pivot point balance at all flight regimes ). So the elevator didn't enter in a destructive flutter coupling mode with the rudder.
Bear in mind that your plane encountered a critical airframe vibration condition and should be inspected and possibly reinforced with great care.
You'll have to take the plane apart ( remove engine, thrust tubes and nozzles ) and make sure that the internal structure did not develop cracks.
Check all vertical formers and servo / elevator system plates.
Check the rudder hinging spar for cracks as well. If the hinging spar is cracked, then you'll have to remove it to check the rudder main spar as well for cracks.
Check the left elevator shaft gluing as well. I'd put it in a vice and exert a rotation force of 20 lbs each side. If the shaft is unglued or cracks during the test process, get a new elevator from FEJ and have this one repaired by them.
Good luck,
Oli.
05-23-2010, 08:04 AM
#40
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Congratulations and good luck with the next flights.
The first thing I did on mine is unscrew all these plates and tighten properly.
I do this on all ARFs since I do not trust any manufacturer to tighten etc. the way I would like it. In fact Itook the Elevator servo trays outside, installed the servos and adjusted them, then screwed it back in properly.This way I am sure it's done right. I also balanced my stabs and re-did the rudder mechanism since the rod screws were loose and the rod rotated freely in the rudder. The rear section is now done on mine as well as the wings.
Looking forward to seeing more flights.
The first thing I did on mine is unscrew all these plates and tighten properly.
I do this on all ARFs since I do not trust any manufacturer to tighten etc. the way I would like it. In fact Itook the Elevator servo trays outside, installed the servos and adjusted them, then screwed it back in properly.This way I am sure it's done right. I also balanced my stabs and re-did the rudder mechanism since the rod screws were loose and the rod rotated freely in the rudder. The rear section is now done on mine as well as the wings.
Looking forward to seeing more flights.
05-23-2010, 10:36 AM
#41
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Hello Olivier,
Once again you have a crystal ball. At first look, it seemed that it was just loose hex set screws that I did not put any loctite on. After removing all internals, pipe, engine, etc. I had found that the sandwich formers holding the rudders had also split. To fix this, I turned the fuse upside down and used thin CA to soak into inner wood and strengthen it. Then I made some ply braces and Hysoled it over these weakened formers. The formers are now rock solid. All Internal nut and bolts have been re tightened and loctite sealed.
Also some of the heavier ply formers for elevator had broke the glue bond to the fuse. I cleaned these up and re hysoled these.
In addition to all this, I had Master Builder Wayne Lane make me up a pair of Steel shaft pins used in the rudders. It was one of these aluminum shaft pins that broke in flight that caused the rudder flutter. The pin that broke seemed to have been drilled very deep to accept the hex set screw. I believe it was the removal of too much material weakening the overall strength of this pin at that area that caused the brake. Inspect your pins and make sure that the drill holes are not too deep. I had Wayne make me up these replacement pins, and FEJ has been informed and is also reviewing this situation. If you want some pins quickly get a set of these pins made up, contact Wayne @P38J, or contact FEJ.
I have been on the Phone with James at FEJ, and they are already on top of this. They are very quick on improvements.
I was one lucky Chap, and believe me I will make sure everything is up to par before the next flight.
Once again you have a crystal ball
. At first look, it seemed that it was just loose hex set screws that I did not put any loctite on. After removing all internals, pipe, engine, etc. I had found that the sandwich formers holding the rudders had also split. To fix this, I turned the fuse upside down and used thin CA to soak into inner wood and strengthen it. Then I made some ply braces and Hysoled it over these weakened formers. The formers are now rock solid. All Internal nut and bolts have been re tightened and loctite sealed.Also some of the heavier ply formers for elevator had broke the glue bond to the fuse. I cleaned these up and re hysoled these.
In addition to all this, I had Master Builder Wayne Lane make me up a pair of Steel shaft pins used in the rudders. It was one of these aluminum shaft pins that broke in flight that caused the rudder flutter. The pin that broke seemed to have been drilled very deep to accept the hex set screw. I believe it was the removal of too much material weakening the overall strength of this pin at that area that caused the brake. Inspect your pins and make sure that the drill holes are not too deep. I had Wayne make me up these replacement pins, and FEJ has been informed and is also reviewing this situation. If you want some pins quickly get a set of these pins made up, contact Wayne @P38J, or contact FEJ.
I have been on the Phone with James at FEJ, and they are already on top of this. They are very quick on improvements.
I was one lucky Chap, and believe me I will make sure everything is up to par before the next flight.
05-23-2010, 11:21 AM
#42
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Judging by the initial flight reports and follow ups, FEJ is still pushing junk onto the unsuspecting public with little regard for quality. Yes, I agree the jet does look quite sharp...but when it transitions into self destruct mode the moment it leaves the ground is quite troubling. A week or so ago, a friend did the first engine run on a new FEJ big F-16 for his customer and the pipe collapsed during the initial run. Just more of the same.
You really do get what you pay for.
Beave
You really do get what you pay for.
Beave
05-23-2010, 11:56 AM
#44
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Hello Bevar,
Firstly I always like see the persons name at the end of their post's so I know who it is. Not hide behind thier avatar.[:@]
In this case Bevar, I am the FEJ Rep and I have chosen to represent this company. Your statement is the same generic statement we have all heard time and time again.
A rudder shaft that perhaps was drilled to deep does not constitute the entire company regime. I have over 30 flights on my FEJ 1/6 F16 and never had a problem with my pipe. I am aware and have seen pics of the pipe you mention. There are always going to be freak problems with any mechanical device. If you are saying that because his pipe, and my rudder pin are faulty then all of FEJ stuff is bad, well I would say 2 things.
1. Your logic is not True.
2. Buy what you want, no one is forcing you to buy FEJ.
If you would like to bash me, go ahead. If you would like to bash FEJ, keep this in mind. With all the things that went wrong on this maiden, (as stated by Olnico "Olivier" ) this jet still came down nicely in ONE PEICE!!
The quality, the fiberglass, the design, the paint is one of the best I have seen yet.
Oh, the gear actually worked so you have no comment on that. Well of course that an oldie about FEJ now isnt it.
Bevar, yes I experianced a problem, I just dont know why you would make such a statement about FEJ unless you had other motives. Enjoy your jets and I will continue to post my findings and help make FEJ one of the best RC Jet Manufacturers out there. They are certainly on the way.
Kevin Marks
Firstly I always like see the persons name at the end of their post's so I know who it is. Not hide behind thier avatar.[:@]
In this case Bevar, I am the FEJ Rep and I have chosen to represent this company. Your statement is the same generic statement we have all heard time and time again.
A rudder shaft that perhaps was drilled to deep does not constitute the entire company regime. I have over 30 flights on my FEJ 1/6 F16 and never had a problem with my pipe. I am aware and have seen pics of the pipe you mention. There are always going to be freak problems with any mechanical device. If you are saying that because his pipe, and my rudder pin are faulty then all of FEJ stuff is bad, well I would say 2 things.
1. Your logic is not True.
2. Buy what you want, no one is forcing you to buy FEJ.
If you would like to bash me, go ahead. If you would like to bash FEJ, keep this in mind. With all the things that went wrong on this maiden, (as stated by Olnico "Olivier" ) this jet still came down nicely in ONE PEICE!!
The quality, the fiberglass, the design, the paint is one of the best I have seen yet.
Oh, the gear actually worked so you have no comment on that. Well of course that an oldie about FEJ now isnt it.
Bevar, yes I experianced a problem, I just dont know why you would make such a statement about FEJ unless you had other motives. Enjoy your jets and I will continue to post my findings and help make FEJ one of the best RC Jet Manufacturers out there. They are certainly on the way.
Kevin Marks
05-23-2010, 01:05 PM
#45
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Hello everybody... first of all I would like to congratulate you guys about the maiden of this nice big ship, and thank about posting the information of the small problem faced in the flight. In my way of view things this is the right and honest way to do, as this would help people to check their bolts, rudders etc. in this particular plane of this brand or any other too.
About having problems in a new design, or even a crash it is fairily easy to claim that they are junk only because they are cheaper or made in a foreign country. however this is much more about the frenetic pace of releases of new airplanes and propulsion systems available than lack of quality or attention to the building. Only time will tell if any airframe will hold up after many hours of flying under different conditions and under other variables, like manufacturing (the employee on the assembly line may be in a bad day) or the builder installing a linkage in a less than ideal way, or even piloting the plane pushing the elevator too hard in a high speed pass, for example.
The alternative to this is simply build and design your own planes, and I can say that this is harder, much more time consuming and risky as buying a new ARF jet.. so for now the way to go is like shown in this thread, test flying the ARF big bug in a nice and safe place and informing the results for our enjoyment and enlightment.
Enrique
About having problems in a new design, or even a crash it is fairily easy to claim that they are junk only because they are cheaper or made in a foreign country. however this is much more about the frenetic pace of releases of new airplanes and propulsion systems available than lack of quality or attention to the building. Only time will tell if any airframe will hold up after many hours of flying under different conditions and under other variables, like manufacturing (the employee on the assembly line may be in a bad day) or the builder installing a linkage in a less than ideal way, or even piloting the plane pushing the elevator too hard in a high speed pass, for example.
The alternative to this is simply build and design your own planes, and I can say that this is harder, much more time consuming and risky as buying a new ARF jet.. so for now the way to go is like shown in this thread, test flying the ARF big bug in a nice and safe place and informing the results for our enjoyment and enlightment.
Enrique
05-23-2010, 01:32 PM
#47
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Kev- great looking jet and great save! Just 2 questions- why didnt you decide to select landing flaps, was there not enough thrust to overcome the drag of them?? Reminded me of your maiden of the Yellow Twin
Second, the paint, stance, and everything look great, but the tires look so small, well, narrow...... Has this been brought up to FEJ, I guess if they work its all good but i am thinking more for scale appeal....
Good save, and good luck on future flights!
Second, the paint, stance, and everything look great, but the tires look so small, well, narrow...... Has this been brought up to FEJ, I guess if they work its all good but i am thinking more for scale appeal....
Good save, and good luck on future flights!
05-23-2010, 02:10 PM
#48
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RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Hey Nick,
I am with you on the tires. There are just some things that seem not important to FEJ. Tires are one of them. Gear stance is another. They will slowly improve on these points as additional jets are designed.
As far as the flaps go, I was not sure after take off if the flap deployment needed elevator adjustment. In this case of emergency landing I did not want to add one more element of the unknown to the mix. The elevator was already one of the problems and I did not want to aggrevate it additionally.
Are you still in Spain?? One of the few places I have not been but would love one day to visite.
When you coming to AZ for a little jet flying.
Best Regards
Kevin
I am with you on the tires. There are just some things that seem not important to FEJ. Tires are one of them. Gear stance is another. They will slowly improve on these points as additional jets are designed.
As far as the flaps go, I was not sure after take off if the flap deployment needed elevator adjustment. In this case of emergency landing I did not want to add one more element of the unknown to the mix. The elevator was already one of the problems and I did not want to aggrevate it additionally.
Are you still in Spain?? One of the few places I have not been but would love one day to visite.
When you coming to AZ for a little jet flying.
Best Regards
Kevin
05-23-2010, 02:28 PM
#50
RE: FEJ very large F/A18 maiden
Kev, no not in Spain anymore, but on my way there tomorrow. First thing is first, we are carrying some "very important cargo" down to Cape Kennedy for the arrival of the space shuttle tomorrow and then off to Europe and Middle East after that.
As for AZ, wish we could make it out there this year but it isnt looking so good. I am taking my wife and son to Ireland/England in August for two weeks so that will take up our vacation leave for this year! If things go good, i am hoping beginning of next year to make it to AZ. I gotta get a friggin trailer soon though, i got rid of my Tahoe and bought a Trailblazer SS this year, so cargo space is at a premium but horsepower is not[8D][8D]
As for AZ, wish we could make it out there this year but it isnt looking so good. I am taking my wife and son to Ireland/England in August for two weeks so that will take up our vacation leave for this year! If things go good, i am hoping beginning of next year to make it to AZ. I gotta get a friggin trailer soon though, i got rid of my Tahoe and bought a Trailblazer SS this year, so cargo space is at a premium
but horsepower is not[8D][8D]