rcand

I did a little research and was told there was a problem with the 9000 series receivers, something about the circuit board. If you have had a loss or problem with a 9100 or similar, cantact Horizon and see what they say.

BaldEagel

Jim Drew is currently (sic) into electric flight and DF's and can be seen in RCJI in the last two additions.

Graupner re-called all the single diversity IFS systems, gave me a full re-fund and have re-invented the IFS system with various modifications.

David

I have nothing against Weatronics, just all the hype that seems to come with it, any thread on RCU that questions ANY systems stability turns into a Weatronics advert, as in this thread someone had a problem with a JR12 they are told they should have had a Weatronics system then they could have known what went wrong, that sort of statement is extreamly unhelpful to the poor soul who just lost his jet, the thread's subject is JR12 lock out and that is what most come on the thread to read about.

The fact that DSM2 has a problem can not be dissmised, whether this problem is that mear mortals need to know how to install it properly or a more fundimental problem exists with the hard or software is what most are trying to sort out by posting on here, personnaly I have not had a problem with any of the Spektrum gear except for it loosing its bind on the ground prior to flight and the fact that the module does not fit the back of the 12FG correctly and had to be modified to clip in and stay in.

Mike

john josey

At the risk of sounding as if i`m repeating myself guys, is the 12x in question a dedicated 2.4 set or a conversion ?

Thanks
john

seattle_helo

My Feedback: (1)

Hey John, for what it's worth, I fly everything I have on an dedicated 12X and it's always been trouble free. I'm pretty meticulous about my builds and installs. My favorite bird right now is a JetCat powered Vario 500E with an Emcotec DPSI twin and two R1221 RX's. I log all of my flights and thus far I'm up to flight 261 with no frames lost. The worst RF performance I've ever had with it was 30 fades on two of the antennas. Most of the scale heli guys I know either fly 12X's or MC-24's with Spektrum modules. These are dudes flying $12 to $18k birds with many hundreds of hours invested. If there was something intrinsically wrong with DSM or the 12X we would not be flying them. At least I wouldn't!

nick

john josey

Hi nick,

Yeah, i agree. My own 12x is a dedicated 2.4 TX although i`ve only been using it since february, but like you, i`ve had no trouble what so ever so far. I`m also very particular about my install, i dont use after-market switches or extention leads, only genuine JR stuff

I`m also using the 1221 RX in a turbine powered aircraft with the flight log, again well, well within limits. All the smaller stuff thati fly at club days has AR7000`s in them, again with no problems what so ever, but checking every flight with the flight log.

I have a 10x which i was gonna convert, but my gut feeling was to up-grade to the 2.4 set. It just seems at the moment, that it`s the guys with the module coversions that are reporting the issues with the TX locking out. i`ve really no idea if this is the case or not, but i thought i would ask the question to see if i could build up a picture.

Take it easy
john

PS. thats possibly the best looking 500E i`ve seen. I would like to think that a turbine heli is on the cards sometime in the near futere.

Rush!

I would certainly appreciate a back to back comparison between the different DSM, DSM2, FHSS and DSMJ systems out there. I'm not after the statistical value but the relative strengths and weaknesses each system has over the other and then make an informed choice...

In the weatronics diagnostics thread, hyperdyne has been able to make a small comparison of DSM and FHSS that was of great value to me. If Weatronics , or any other system, is really the most robust available system out there, then the results should speak for itself when compared to other systems under the same test conditions. What is most important is that the test can show the strengths and weanknesses of each system and then let the modeller make an informed choice of which one to buy based on his needs.

Not all of us fly turbines all the time, so a system robustness only needs to meet a modellers use criteria. I have never had a problem with DSM2 that i can recall for up to 50e size planes, but for turbines... I want the most robust system out there....

Regards

Rob

cavandish

'My opinion is that there are probably many many more futaba systems out there than JR/Spektrum"

I really find this hard to believe, just think how many DX7's were sold before Futaba hit the market with 2.4

c_makhija

I here a lot of guys using the dsm2 saying in hundreds of flights they have never had a frame loss. How many frame losses are acceptable in one flight. I am using the 12X in my flash with good success so far and have had 58 flights so far, on 5 occasions my flight logger showed me some frame losses the minimum showed 2 and the maximum 12. Just wanted to be sure if these numbers are within limits. The install of the satellites are as per the manual.

Chaitanya.

David Gladwin

[/quote]



I have nothing against Weatronics, just all the hype that seems to come with it, any thread on RCU that questions ANY systems stability turns into a Weatronics advert, as in this thread someone had a problem with a JR12 they are told they should have had a Weatronics system then they could have known what went wrong, that sort of statement is extreamly unhelpful to the poor soul who just lost his jet, the thread's subject is JR12 lock out and that is what most come on the thread to read about.

The fact that DSM2 has a problem can not be dissmised, whether this problem is that mear mortals need to know how to install it properly or a more fundimental problem exists with the hard or software is what most are trying to sort out by posting on here, personnaly I have not had a problem with any of the Spektrum gear except for it loosing its bind on the ground prior to flight and the fact that the module does not fit the back of the 12FG correctly and had to be modified to clip in and stay in.

Mike


[/quote]

Mike, I am just as keen as ANYONE to found out just WHAT is causing these lockouts, I have TWO 12xs and never a problem. I dont dismiss the problem at all, far from it, I want to know the cause or causes. !

If I may say so NOTHING is less helpful to someone who has lost a model than someone describing their radio as "pathetic ", your decription.

Having said that I compare the problem of a lockout with how does one discover the problem with just a pile of wreckage, difficult.

Witha Weatronics setup one can just download the data stored on the SD card in the transmitter, its all there and one can fully evaluate the radios performance. Thats a fact, I can't change it because someone doesn't like it being mentioned and is just one reason why I like the concept so much ! You can't do that with a DSM or FASST system but at least Spektrum/ JR allows you to evaluate basic radio performance via the data logger. I have still to lose ONE SINGLE frame in flight and I check the logger after EVERY flight. (Lots of fades but no frame loss and my 1221 rx produces less fades than the 9100 BUT that may be a function of antenna location in different models)

Its rather like fullsize accident investigation, before FDRs and CVRs crash investigation was at times extremely difficult, and time consuming, even impossible, the advent of both FDRs and CVR (mandatory on large jet transports) made things vastly easier and allowed investigators to rapidly and accurately determine causes of accidents and the result is vastly improved air safety and aircraft reliability. Its my opinion, based on experience that the Weatronics system has offered a similar leap forward.

So please lets have a robust debate based on fact and experience, looking at all possibilities, gathering as much info as we can and see if we can nail the problem , and see if there IS a common cause. I think we can ALL benefit, whatever radio we use, from such a debate.

Regards,

David.

harikeshpk

questioning the very foundation of a product will not generate a reply from the company. DSM lockouts compared to FHSS can be higher due to the very nature of the lock Vs hop. where there are too much RF signals to deal with for a radio system hopping may be better that locking. by the way the no of equipment using 2.4 GHZ are on the rise it needs to be seen is there a real problem with DSM in some special situation's .

high time the company (JR)came out with a good reply especially sine they are using hopping

(FHSS) in japan.

Vinceyboy

Hi all,

I have been reading this thread with great interest, because like everyone else I do not want to loose any of my valuable models, especially my turbines, I have already had one go in, my Intro, When I was using a Futaba FF9 with a Spektrum module plug-in, which appears to be because a well know fault (not to me at the time) that the brass nut on the back of the aerial came loose, causing a lockout.

Now I have been using Futaba right back to my Skysport 6A, and have always been very pleased with them but after the Intro going in, which has cost me over ÂŁ800 to get it back into the air, I decided to buy myself a dedicated 2.4 radio, and as Futaba were having problems at the time, I bought a JR DSX9 outfit, the receiver that came with the kit I have installed in my XL, along with a PB Evolution etc.
I also always use 6v battery's because I don't like under powering my equipment. Now I'm hoping I'm not going to get any problems with my system, I am very careful with my install to make it the neatest and nicest I can, I know nothing in life is full proof but I would still like to keep them flying for some years to come, pilot error is one thing but dodgy equipment is something else[]

I have recently bought two Avonds F15's, because I think they are great models, my friend who has been flying jets for many years, has been flying his Avonds F15 for nearly fifteen years, and it still looks a stunner, he has just recently changed that over to 2.4 but on Futaba, I can only hope and pray that my new JR works okay.

Regards,

Vince.

BaldEagel

You seem to be fond of miss quoting me, I did not say anyone's radio was pathetic, I said in my original post that the solution to the problems Spektrum where having was pathetic, two battery inputs and calling it power safe, and extra rx's to ensure a robust link, how may aerials does a link need, retorical not a question.

As somone is bound to say, perhaps we ought to get a room.

Mike

lavi rider

My Feedback: (6)

Gentlemen from what I read here the asumption of having the lockout due to the close proximity of the smoke pump to the receiver causing a permanent damage to the flash memory sounds logical to me .....only time can tell.

We don't have today the assets to conduct a proper analysis .

Other systems such as Multiplex and Weatronic hand the user some better source of back log to gather information .

Turbotronic

I second that but it may be difficult to simulate since once you have gotten static to render a RX useless unless you are able to re-flash the CPU you cannot say if the static caused physical damage or flash corruption. This is NOT speculation. In aerospace electronics this is a well known and preventable problem. I work with a space program where we have components, mechanical and electronic, in polar orbits right this minute. I absolutely know what I am talking about because I actually execute, design and deploy real systems. The science in preserving electronic reliability during launch and space flight is almost routine if you heed the lessons learnt. I am yet to see a R/C system that even comes close to this. And it is not a question of cost, but competent engineering.
Unfortunately rational and informed discussion is not really in the frame of reference of some of the brand loyalist here. Truth obscures their ego and argument.
I hope you find the problem. It would be of benifit to the whole model community, the actual point of these discussion forums.

seattle_helo

My Feedback: (1)

c_makhija, here's the verbatim text from the Flight Log manual:

You are within the acceptable range.

nick

DelGatoGrande

My Feedback: (23)

Nick how we are going to do this?
I want your awesome heli for a ride

na ise kala file mou[sm=thumbup.gif]

rolsen12

Most pepole don't do the rebind the right way on any of the JR 2.4 radios.

AeroFinn

What do you mean? Is the correct procedure clearly described in the manual? Mine is a DX7

David Gladwin

Well I give, up I just dont know exactly WHAT you DO mean ! Must be my English comprehension !
I'm not intersted in misquoting anyone, just trying to get to the heart of the matter.

Exasperated

David G

Vinceyboy

pity were not running Bickley Jets this year, you two chaps could thrash it out face to face and save all the finger work

c_makhija

Thanks Nick. I feel comfortable when i see guys like you trusting DSM2 for your awesome Chopper.

Chaitanya.

cavandish

"Unfortunately rational and informed discussion is not really in the frame of reference of some of the brand loyalist here. Truth obscures their ego and argument."

AWESOME

rino

My Feedback: (121)

I've been monitoring this thread for a while. I don't fly jets but I do fly GS planes. I have had 4 out of 20 Spektrum receivers have issues. I am probably unlucky, but the math doesn't work for me anymore. I'm not some bumbling fool who can't set up a power system either.

Why don't we hear a lot about problems with FAAST???????. Of the 20 Spektrm rxs I have owned, I have had one confirmed software issue, 2 confirmed range issues and one repeatable but strange issue that just came out to be a manufacturing quality problem. JRs are my favorite radios to fly with by a longshot but but in my opinion these guys have an rx quality problem that they have not addressed. You have to be able to trust your equipment especially when you have $$$ in the air; that's paramount...and if you don't it's worth the peace of mind to make a change.

roger.alli

Agreed Rino,

My opinion (or suggestion really) is that perhaps the QUALITY CONTROL of components in the Spectrum/JR gear, may not be as good as it could be. The actual system design is fine, but perhaps the manufacturing and overall quality control of the end product is lacking.

A glaring example of this would be the “soft switch” supplied with the 9100 rx that had the signal wire loose with bare copper end inside the switch housing. This issue caused several high profile crashes, including Oliver’s. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_70..._5/key_/tm.htm (post 105)

Any company that practices proper quality control would never have let that product onto the market, especially in an Rx designed for use in high end jets. (And prior to the JR/Spectrum marriage, I don’t think JR would have.) There are other examples of poor JR/Spectrum gear, but this is the most visible for me.

My point being, that the problems DSM 2 users are having are due to poor quality control, and not poor engineering. This would certainly explain why most users (including me) have little or no problems, while others have had unexplained failures.

JR used to build the best RC equipment in the world, (my opinion again), but perhaps in the rush be the first with aircraft 2.4 systems, they have compromised on quality. I would hope not, but the examples above do not fill me with confidence.

Roger

consoleworld

very quiet on such a serious problem , i lost 2 jets with lockout the 2.4 with JR12X.

one more lost 07/07/2010

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZpv0O1ubMs&videos=ugLz9iG_Ez8[/youtube]