National Jet Center?
06-13-2010, 05:54 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
Gordon, when the initial batch of jet flyers gets to old to fly jets, they will be a different breed of old guys because they used to fly jets, so hopefully they won't be as opposed to jet flying as many of the current geriatrics who grew up flying rubber power and free flight are. It may not be a problem where you fly, but several clubs have ongoing problems with the "old farts" and their lack of understanding of anything that is not powered by a .40 size glow engine.
Not saying that all old pilots are like that, but this facility would be based around active jet pilots, builders and their families.
I don't understand why you would ask the question if we would promote unsafe flying.
Not saying that all old pilots are like that, but this facility would be based around active jet pilots, builders and their families.
I don't understand why you would ask the question if we would promote unsafe flying.
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
So what happens when your initial batch of jet guys get older and their eyesight and reflexes deteriorate, so they decide to hang up their jets and want to fly something slower ? Are you gonna tell them they can no longer fly at the site they funded just because jets are now too much for them ? Or will you end up effectively convincing guys to keep flying jets (because that's all you're allowing) long after they themselves know they are unsafe ?
Gordon
ORIGINAL: JetCenterUSA
We also think that if possible, the facility should be for jet related activities only and especially be careful not to open up for the old fart peanut gallery that tends to dominate most clubs. The guys who don't fly, but think because of their advanced age that they know how a club should be run. The idea would be that the activities are based around flying, and not geriatric politics.
We also think that if possible, the facility should be for jet related activities only and especially be careful not to open up for the old fart peanut gallery that tends to dominate most clubs. The guys who don't fly, but think because of their advanced age that they know how a club should be run. The idea would be that the activities are based around flying, and not geriatric politics.
Gordon
06-13-2010, 06:39 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Southern California Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84"N
116°44'8.71"W
Thanks,
Rick
34°23'56.84"N
116°44'8.71"W
Thanks,
Rick
06-13-2010, 06:41 PM
#28
RE: National Jet Center?
This idea sounds great but how does this affect pilots who want to invest in a project like this, but they live in a differant state, say your site ends up in FL and I wanted to invest but I live here in Cali, not too good for someone thats lives 2500 away from the site, just a concern.
06-13-2010, 06:46 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
ORIGINAL: rickj202
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84''N
116°44'8.71''W
Thanks,
Rick
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84''N
116°44'8.71''W
Thanks,
Rick
Rick
06-13-2010, 06:47 PM
#30
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RE: National Jet Center?
ORIGINAL: JetCenterUSA
I don't understand why you would ask the question if we would promote unsafe flying.
I don't understand why you would ask the question if we would promote unsafe flying.
ORIGINAL: Gordon Mc
Or will you end up effectively convincing guys to keep flying jets (because that's all you're allowing) long after they themselves know they are unsafe ?
Gordon
Or will you end up effectively convincing guys to keep flying jets (because that's all you're allowing) long after they themselves know they are unsafe ?
Gordon
I'm simply advocating that rules in general ought to be considered thoroughly for how the old rule of unintended consequences can bite ya. [8D]
Kinda like posting a minimum speed on the freeway - the intent of the rule may be to keep slow cars off the freeway, but the unintended consequences may instead be that great-grandpa keeps crashing because he's driving beyond the max speed at which he can react properly.
Gordon
06-13-2010, 06:49 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
Well, enough about the old fart issue.
It would be interesting to play with some numbers to see what kind of membership is needed and the cost involved. The setup would probably be like a private golf club where members pay an upfront fee and the a yearly membership fee.
Anyone here with insight to how golf club economics works? What type of corporation, what kind of membership fees, bylaws? It would be interesting to look at some numbers from a a similar economy.
06-13-2010, 06:52 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
Joe,
This will be a problem no matter where you live. If the facility is located in California, the FL guys will be unhappy.
The way to decide location would be by taking into consideration where the main investors and largest group of potential members would want the facility to be.
This will be a problem no matter where you live. If the facility is located in California, the FL guys will be unhappy.
The way to decide location would be by taking into consideration where the main investors and largest group of potential members would want the facility to be.
ORIGINAL: Joe C
This idea sounds great but how does this affect pilots who want to invest in a project like this, but they live in a differant state, say your site ends up in FL and I wanted to invest but I live here in Cali, not too good for someone thats lives 2500 away from the site, just a concern.
This idea sounds great but how does this affect pilots who want to invest in a project like this, but they live in a differant state, say your site ends up in FL and I wanted to invest but I live here in Cali, not too good for someone thats lives 2500 away from the site, just a concern.
06-13-2010, 07:09 PM
#35
RE: National Jet Center?
We have about 3k acres in sod across the state. There is cheap Ag land out there not far from the central Flroida theme parks. A long term lease would make sense. As a matter of fact, many sod guys have are really looking for other uses for their land since building has died.
One thing to consider is that 5 acres (as in one of Ron101's links) will be next to useless. You will also need fly over land as well as a buffer for noise.
Consider sharing the property with other anti social
groups such as gun clubs, go kart racing clubs, archery clubs - you get the picture, anyone who the OF's & Joe public like to complain about for any and all reasons.Australia's MAAA (our AMA) has a scheme to assist the purchase of flying sites, can the AMA help you guys?
Keep a lookout for land that is flood prone, no one wants to build on it so the urban sprawl won't catch up to you & the price may be low enough to allow for the occasional 'inconvienience'! My club's land is classified as flood prone as it's close to a river but there is a silver lining, this entitles us to 'water rights' which is a tradeable (and very valuable) resource. - John.
06-13-2010, 07:19 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
Hi Rick, I looked up the location on Google Earth and it looks very far from any civilization. What is the nearest town with motel/hotel/restaurant facilities?
ORIGINAL: rickj202
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Southern California Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84"N
116°44'8.71"W
Thanks,
Rick
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Southern California Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84"N
116°44'8.71"W
Thanks,
Rick
06-13-2010, 07:39 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
ORIGINAL: rickj202
This location is about an hour and half from LA and Orange County. One and half hours from Disney land. Big Bear for skiing 30 minutes. Beautiful clear skies.
Rick
ORIGINAL: rickj202
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84''N
116°44'8.71''W
Thanks,
Rick
My neighbor and I have 80 Acres of land in Lucerne Valley right behind Big Bear. This something that we thought about as well. Take a look. It would be a great place to fly.
34°23'56.84''N
116°44'8.71''W
Thanks,
Rick
Rick
Thanks,
Rick
06-13-2010, 09:43 PM
#40
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RE: National Jet Center?
I would definitely be interested as long as it is somewhat at a driving distance from home (say 4h). Somewhere between north and south cal would be perfect for California.
The club could also put together some jet flying instruction events. A bit like it is done in germany?This could generate some cash
I suspect it is unavoidable that some members will be more interested by enforcing the rules than actually flying planes. I personally don't care as long as the rules are not so restrictive that flying is no longer fun.
Maybe the club could consider building a set of crates and have a deal with some freight company so members can receive crates and send planes before flying in or something? If it was easy to ship models, I guess I would consider joining a club in Nevada, Oregon or Arizona.
The club could also put together some jet flying instruction events. A bit like it is done in germany?This could generate some cash
Please keep us informed. This is a fantastic idea.
Arnaud (in north cal.)
06-13-2010, 11:31 PM
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RE: National Jet Center?
i agree with gordon mc 100% all you young hot shot jet pilots are hopefully going to get old some day and where are the young people going to get the money to afford the jets. you guys just have a pipe dream.
06-14-2010, 01:27 AM
#43
RE: National Jet Center?
you guys just have a pipe dream.[sm=punching.gif]
It WILL happen now.
- John.PS, the only pipe dreams we have around here are whether to go straight or bifuricated.
06-14-2010, 07:08 AM
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RE: National Jet Center?
I do not think it's a Young or Old issue, it's the idea that anything that does not go around the patch a certain speed or direction it's not welcome. Yes there are older people with this thinking, but not all or even most...Let's face it, whats the average age of the hobby? Been to a club meeting latelty? Not many young guys taking the time to go to those.
These guys are the backbone of the hobby, however you know the scene; The ones that bring the ol' flybaby out stick it on the table, fly once and then sit back with the rest of the "real members" and point out what everybody else is doing wrong.... You meet the most fiendly group of guys at a open house or fly-in, until you join and start flying something they are not familiar with. It's like skiers and snowboarders. At the end of the day people want to hang out with others that share the same interests, this hobby is so big we have a hobby within a hobby...
Mike
These guys are the backbone of the hobby, however you know the scene; The ones that bring the ol' flybaby out stick it on the table, fly once and then sit back with the rest of the "real members" and point out what everybody else is doing wrong.... You meet the most fiendly group of guys at a open house or fly-in, until you join and start flying something they are not familiar with. It's like skiers and snowboarders. At the end of the day people want to hang out with others that share the same interests, this hobby is so big we have a hobby within a hobby...
Mike
06-14-2010, 07:19 AM
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RE: National Jet Center?
JetCenter, how many acres do you think you need to ensure a safe overfly zone and to keep adjoining neighbors from complaining about noise?
06-14-2010, 08:01 AM
#46
06-14-2010, 08:37 AM
#47
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RE: National Jet Center?
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
Old guys cant fly jets huh? Thats rediculous! Not every jet does 200mph.
Scott
Old guys cant fly jets huh? Thats rediculous! Not every jet does 200mph.
Scott
Gordon
06-14-2010, 09:55 AM
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RE: National Jet Center?
Again... ENOUGH ABOUT THE OLD GUYS. Start another thread if you want to bicker about when a person is to old to fly jets and what speeds they should be flying at. Thank you.
If you have constructive ideas about how this could become a reality, the post it here, or as others have done, PM your interest in joining the founding team.
email is [email protected]
The question about acreage: We are hoping to find a place far from residential areas. the ideal location would probably be in a farm/sod/ranch area where the surrounding is fields that unlikely will de turned into housing in the foreseeable future. Our plot would ideally be something that could be expanded as needed.
As for this being a pipe dream, well I don't necessarily think so. One pilot with interest is a multi millionaire developer who has shown interest in purchasing the land and develop the housing aspect of the aeroclub, so there is definitely more than dreams involved at this point.
06-14-2010, 10:29 AM
#49
RE: National Jet Center?
Playing Devils advocate ,,, Have you considered what impact the FAA,other Govn't agency's might do our hobby in a few years ? WE ALL might be flying park flyers . Will a AMA insurance cover the "Club" or will it carry it's own insurance ? and hopefully we all will become OLD FARTS
Joe
Joe
06-14-2010, 10:30 AM
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RE: National Jet Center?
One idea we had was the timeshare concept. While timeshare has a bit of a bad reputation because it has been oversold in the resort and vacation industry, it would make perfect sense with this project. A number of condos and hotel rooms could be built with RC pilots buying a certain number of days/weeks per year ownership. We feel that the on site residential development is an important aspect for this idea to work since it would help finance the RC field infrastructure
The price of ownership would be the price of a jet, around $8K to $10K for lifelong ownership of a vacation home on a custom built jet facility. This should probably also attract Non US pilots who could have a winter vacation in the sun with lots of jet flying at a super nice field. You freezing brits, would you come
So, lets say the facility would be located in a nice green area, fairly close to family attractions (meaning that beaches or major cities is not more than 1 hour drive away) in a state with above average nice weather. Would there be interest from RCU members to join and have a vacation home at a facility like this?
