Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
07-15-2010, 06:55 AM
#101
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
just to slow..
gear out lots of drag
to slow into the loop comming out with almost full elevator and snaps out.
happened to me with a C-arf Hawk the landing gear was the main issue becomming a anchor combine this with slow speed ..
gear out lots of drag
to slow into the loop comming out with almost full elevator and snaps out.
happened to me with a C-arf Hawk the landing gear was the main issue becomming a anchor combine this with slow speed ..
07-15-2010, 07:54 AM
#103
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: highhorse
3) A post-mortem has revealed that there was indeed a radio issue, specifically regarding uncommanded and asymmetric movement on the the flap channel.
3) A post-mortem has revealed that there was indeed a radio issue, specifically regarding uncommanded and asymmetric movement on the the flap channel.
i have a SM hawk that behaves exactly the same way, these jets are tanks, they weigh 30 plus pounds and have a wing area less than a .60 size glow plane. Bad things happen when you pull on the elevator.
Mike
07-15-2010, 08:39 AM
#105
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: basimpsn
Pass me that stick
ORIGINAL: AFTERBURNER1
Five pages long eh????[8D]
Five pages long eh????[8D]
Here you go.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuCSn2GXSGM[/youtube]
Hopefully, next time there is a problem with the aircraft, perceived or real; then wings level, enter the pattern and land. Pulling stunts, especially at low altitude with a plane (or pilot) that may have a problem (with that plane), is an error in judgement and usually is the quickest way to end a flight.
Bryce
07-15-2010, 09:17 AM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
No
Catch you out at the field.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKX1jqSMB_Y&feature=related[/youtube]
* Yea I know, just turn the sound off.
07-15-2010, 09:34 AM
#108
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: highhorse
Yes, I took info forwarded to me in the email, which was written to me on behalf of the pilot/owner of the crashed viper, on faith.
I had no reason not to. Neither do you.
ORIGINAL: SinCityJets
I have not been privately email by anyone that was on-site, or anywhere else for that matter. My source tells me that the email HH received was full of crap. The dual flap channel radio malfunction instigated by a stripped metal servo gear causing RF interference is not true.
No disrespect intended to you HH, as I know you present the email in good faith HH, but it is almost comical that you would completely discount what is plain to see in the video, and go off an email received by a third party, based on nothing more than what somebody wrote. [
]
Chad
I have not been privately email by anyone that was on-site, or anywhere else for that matter. My source tells me that the email HH received was full of crap. The dual flap channel radio malfunction instigated by a stripped metal servo gear causing RF interference is not true.
No disrespect intended to you HH, as I know you present the email in good faith HH, but it is almost comical that you would completely discount what is plain to see in the video, and go off an email received by a third party, based on nothing more than what somebody wrote. [
]Chad
I had no reason not to. Neither do you.
Put another way - if everything sent to me by email was truthful, I would be a multi-trillionaire by now, thanks to several kind people in Nigeria who are willing to put large sums into my bank account.
Gordon
07-15-2010, 12:09 PM
#111
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: Nightwalker
No
Catch you out at the field.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKX1jqSMB_Y&feature=related[/youtube]
* Yea I know, just turn the sound off.
No
Catch you out at the field.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKX1jqSMB_Y&feature=related[/youtube]
* Yea I know, just turn the sound off.
.[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0qf1lDacgU[/youtube]
07-15-2010, 12:21 PM
#112
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: basimpsn
Hey bryce that l-39 flight reminded me of my First Solo flight.
Hey bryce that l-39 flight reminded me of my First Solo flight
.
You should not have been solo(ed). Explanation found!
07-15-2010, 01:02 PM
#113
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
I chose , for clarity and simplicty to imbed my response to your post uh...into your post...[8D]
Regards, Don.
ORIGINAL: STKNRUD
The flight path and the aircraft's inertia ARE material. Anyone who has snapped an aircraft going vertically upward knows. It will not establish a stable downward spin until its inertia is spent, has rolled over and started down. The entry into a spin at stall speed horizontally and level is a whole lot different than going horizontally, vertically upward or downward with lots of inertia. Additionally, the control placements after entry can effect the shape and speed of the rotation. In this case, we have no idea what the pilot was doing with the controls after it rolled right. The ventral fins on the Viper would very likely effect it....they sure do on the Navy's T38C which we found would do an unrecoverable flat spin without them and the strips on the nose cowling (this I have firsthand knowledge of). Also, a stable spin is not usually considered stable until it has rotate vertically downward a minimum of three turns. Some valid points there. MY point was that a snap entry on a down line will look and be the same as one on any other line. The physics of the entry are the same. And for the record, I HAVE done it, a lot, so I do know of which i speak and am not one of the "armchair experts". Competition and airshows both. Pitts and Sukhois. (there was nothing quite as amazing to me as the sight of the nose in my S2-B actually rising above the horizon after power was added to convert a vanilla inverted spin into a flat one. +12g and -8g were the norm during a show in the Suk. The -8g, thankfully, was only temporary during the lump (lomcevak) entry...which I usually entered from a crossed outside snap on a right knife 45 up line). I was also qualled as an I.A.C. judge although I preferred to "call" for judges rather than be one.
I do not think anyone is picking on the pilot (he's been attacked by mutiple "experts" for poor judgement on a number of issues) or the fellow reporting the incident. I hope you remember it was HIS post and request for evaluation of the video ( The pilot, in fact, is not even an RCU member. Recall also that I have been forwarded an email from the pilot and friend of his, who upon exam of the wreckage have determined that there was indeed a radio issue which affected the flaps specifically. Of course, Chad has taken it upon himself now to brand the man a liar who is "full of crap", so yes...the pilot IS being attacked.) and I think everyone's opinion of the video is as valid as yours. No doubt it could have been a control surface problem, but in the absence of more post-accident specifics to the contrary, we have a dirty heavy (Really? How heavy was it? What was his fuel state? Smoke oil state? How long had he been in the air before the loop? How much smoke had he used? Were you there? Did you help carry away the wreckage perhaps and see what was left in the tanks? Is it possible that you have presented your own assumption as if it were a fact The assumtion is understandable, but I'm sure you'll agree upon further reflection that you have no knowledge of the weight and that "heavy" is not a fact in the vid or elsewhere.) ?airplane with a very high angle of attack and wing loading with a pilot possibility pulling back harder than normal to secure a gear (unless he just decided to do a dirty loop seconds after the nose gear went down). There was no evidence of any control issue prior to the abrupt roll to the right. (neither was there evidence that he was a poor pilot who did not have the talent or experience to successfully complete the manuver, but many here are more than willing to assume that was the case none the less. In other words, it is ASSUMED by many that the a/c was normal and the pilot malfunctioned. Why not assume that the pilot was funcioning normally and the a/c malfunctioned? There is more than a small amount of evidence that the airplane broke, but that is IGNORED my most, even as the continue to blame pilot error on the basis that his thumbs were "plainly" not correctly calibrated. Note that the a/c barreled right. it did not snap right.) Unless he reports to us some more specifics about a broken linkage or strip gear (Actually, please re-read the thread more carefully. He HAS reported, to me, and through his friend and fellow experienced Viper owner, that the flap function of the radio is dorked. Again, the owner is not an RCU member. And again, I'm sure that the friend who sent me the email will continue to be villified as a "full of crap" liar. I don't know either of the guys, but I have no reason to doubt their word. Neither does anyone else here, but those who seem to be so personally invested in being "right" will villify them anyway, I'm sure) , I have to stick with what appears, in my opinion, (That's cool. I simply wish everyone who's posted an opinion had the humility to label it as an opinion, that they not evidence contrary to their opinion simply because it is...contrary) the probably cause which includes more the the shape of the rotation. (the flight path, or "shape of the rotation", as you put it, is IMO one of the strongest point against the snap/spin theory. That's not the flight path of a spinning a/c, it's the flight path of a spiraling/barreling one, which demonstrates that the inside wing was not stalled...IMO) If anyone wants to video his Viper doing the exact same maneuver and post it here that might give us some more info too.
The flight path and the aircraft's inertia ARE material. Anyone who has snapped an aircraft going vertically upward knows. It will not establish a stable downward spin until its inertia is spent, has rolled over and started down. The entry into a spin at stall speed horizontally and level is a whole lot different than going horizontally, vertically upward or downward with lots of inertia. Additionally, the control placements after entry can effect the shape and speed of the rotation. In this case, we have no idea what the pilot was doing with the controls after it rolled right. The ventral fins on the Viper would very likely effect it....they sure do on the Navy's T38C which we found would do an unrecoverable flat spin without them and the strips on the nose cowling (this I have firsthand knowledge of). Also, a stable spin is not usually considered stable until it has rotate vertically downward a minimum of three turns. Some valid points there. MY point was that a snap entry on a down line will look and be the same as one on any other line. The physics of the entry are the same. And for the record, I HAVE done it, a lot, so I do know of which i speak and am not one of the "armchair experts". Competition and airshows both. Pitts and Sukhois. (there was nothing quite as amazing to me as the sight of the nose in my S2-B actually rising above the horizon after power was added to convert a vanilla inverted spin into a flat one. +12g and -8g were the norm during a show in the Suk. The -8g, thankfully, was only temporary during the lump (lomcevak) entry...which I usually entered from a crossed outside snap on a right knife 45 up line). I was also qualled as an I.A.C. judge although I preferred to "call" for judges rather than be one.
I do not think anyone is picking on the pilot (he's been attacked by mutiple "experts" for poor judgement on a number of issues) or the fellow reporting the incident. I hope you remember it was HIS post and request for evaluation of the video ( The pilot, in fact, is not even an RCU member. Recall also that I have been forwarded an email from the pilot and friend of his, who upon exam of the wreckage have determined that there was indeed a radio issue which affected the flaps specifically. Of course, Chad has taken it upon himself now to brand the man a liar who is "full of crap", so yes...the pilot IS being attacked.) and I think everyone's opinion of the video is as valid as yours. No doubt it could have been a control surface problem, but in the absence of more post-accident specifics to the contrary, we have a dirty heavy (Really? How heavy was it? What was his fuel state? Smoke oil state? How long had he been in the air before the loop? How much smoke had he used? Were you there? Did you help carry away the wreckage perhaps and see what was left in the tanks? Is it possible that you have presented your own assumption as if it were a fact The assumtion is understandable, but I'm sure you'll agree upon further reflection that you have no knowledge of the weight and that "heavy" is not a fact in the vid or elsewhere.) ?airplane with a very high angle of attack and wing loading with a pilot possibility pulling back harder than normal to secure a gear (unless he just decided to do a dirty loop seconds after the nose gear went down). There was no evidence of any control issue prior to the abrupt roll to the right. (neither was there evidence that he was a poor pilot who did not have the talent or experience to successfully complete the manuver, but many here are more than willing to assume that was the case none the less. In other words, it is ASSUMED by many that the a/c was normal and the pilot malfunctioned. Why not assume that the pilot was funcioning normally and the a/c malfunctioned? There is more than a small amount of evidence that the airplane broke, but that is IGNORED my most, even as the continue to blame pilot error on the basis that his thumbs were "plainly" not correctly calibrated. Note that the a/c barreled right. it did not snap right.) Unless he reports to us some more specifics about a broken linkage or strip gear (Actually, please re-read the thread more carefully. He HAS reported, to me, and through his friend and fellow experienced Viper owner, that the flap function of the radio is dorked. Again, the owner is not an RCU member. And again, I'm sure that the friend who sent me the email will continue to be villified as a "full of crap" liar. I don't know either of the guys, but I have no reason to doubt their word. Neither does anyone else here, but those who seem to be so personally invested in being "right" will villify them anyway, I'm sure) , I have to stick with what appears, in my opinion, (That's cool. I simply wish everyone who's posted an opinion had the humility to label it as an opinion, that they not evidence contrary to their opinion simply because it is...contrary) the probably cause which includes more the the shape of the rotation. (the flight path, or "shape of the rotation", as you put it, is IMO one of the strongest point against the snap/spin theory. That's not the flight path of a spinning a/c, it's the flight path of a spiraling/barreling one, which demonstrates that the inside wing was not stalled...IMO) If anyone wants to video his Viper doing the exact same maneuver and post it here that might give us some more info too.
The attitude or direction of the flight path at entry are immaterial, as is the flight path once the spin is established, because the laws of aerodynamics don't care which way the jet is flying. A snap on a down line looks the same as one on an up line or a horizontal one.
Regards, Don.
07-15-2010, 01:41 PM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
For someone extolling the virtues of a person's opinion versus making assertions of facts, you sure don't have a problem in making statements such as "demonstrates" and "evidence it broke" which is a lot stronger than opinion. Thanks for sharing your lengthly bio. In the interest of not boring everyone further, I won't share mine or try to respond to you dissertation.
George
George
07-15-2010, 02:14 PM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
how can you explain what happened to the plane if all you can see is the plane in focus ? nobody knows what really happened . i feel sorry for the guy.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rsdeawCNHU&feature=related[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rsdeawCNHU&feature=related[/youtube]
07-15-2010, 02:53 PM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: highhorse
I chose , for clarity and simplicty to imbed my response to your post uh...into your post...[8D]
Regards, Don.
I chose , for clarity and simplicty to imbed my response to your post uh...into your post...[8D]
ORIGINAL: STKNRUD
The flight path and the aircraft's inertia ARE material. Anyone who has snapped an aircraft going vertically upward knows. It will not establish a stable downward spin until its inertia is spent, has rolled over and started down. The entry into a spin at stall speed horizontally and level is a whole lot different than going horizontally, vertically upward or downward with lots of inertia. Additionally, the control placements after entry can effect the shape and speed of the rotation. In this case, we have no idea what the pilot was doing with the controls after it rolled right. The ventral fins on the Viper would very likely effect it....they sure do on the Navy's T38C which we found would do an unrecoverable flat spin without them and the strips on the nose cowling (this I have firsthand knowledge of). Also, a stable spin is not usually considered stable until it has rotate vertically downward a minimum of three turns. Some valid points there. MY point was that a snap entry on a down line will look and be the same as one on any other line. The physics of the entry are the same. And for the record, I HAVE done it, a lot, so I do know of which i speak and am not one of the ''armchair experts''. Competition and airshows both. Pitts and Sukhois. (there was nothing quite as amazing to me as the sight of the nose in my S2-B actually rising above the horizon after power was added to convert a vanilla inverted spin into a flat one. +12g and -8g were the norm during a show in the Suk. The -8g, thankfully, was only temporary during the lump (lomcevak) entry...which I usually entered from a crossed outside snap on a right knife 45 up line). I was also qualled as an I.A.C. judge although I preferred to ''call'' for judges rather than be one.
I do not think anyone is picking on the pilot (he's been attacked by mutiple ''experts'' for poor judgement on a number of issues) or the fellow reporting the incident. I hope you remember it was HIS post and request for evaluation of the video ( The pilot, in fact, is not even an RCU member. Recall also that I have been forwarded an email from the pilot and friend of his, who upon exam of the wreckage have determined that there was indeed a radio issue which affected the flaps specifically. Of course, Chad has taken it upon himself now to brand the man a liar who is ''full of crap'', so yes...the pilot IS being attacked.) and I think everyone's opinion of the video is as valid as yours. No doubt it could have been a control surface problem, but in the absence of more post-accident specifics to the contrary, we have a dirty heavy (Really? How heavy was it? What was his fuel state? Smoke oil state? How long had he been in the air before the loop? How much smoke had he used? Were you there? Did you help carry away the wreckage perhaps and see what was left in the tanks? Is it possible that you have presented your own assumption as if it were a fact The assumtion is understandable, but I'm sure you'll agree upon further reflection that you have no knowledge of the weight and that ''heavy'' is not a fact in the vid or elsewhere.) ?airplane with a very high angle of attack and wing loading with a pilot possibility pulling back harder than normal to secure a gear (unless he just decided to do a dirty loop seconds after the nose gear went down). There was no evidence of any control issue prior to the abrupt roll to the right. (neither was there evidence that he was a poor pilot who did not have the talent or experience to successfully complete the manuver, but many here are more than willing to assume that was the case none the less. In other words, it is ASSUMED by many that the a/c was normal and the pilot malfunctioned. Why not assume that the pilot was funcioning normally and the a/c malfuncioned? There is more than a small amount of evidence that the airplane broke, but that is IGNORED my most, even as the continue to blame pilot error on the basis that his thumbs were ''plainly'' not correctly calibrated. Note that the a/c barreled right. it did not snap right.) Unless he reports to us some more specifics about a broken linkage or strip gear (Actually, please re-read the thread more carefully. He HAS reported, to me, and through his friend and fellow experienced Viper owner, that the flap function of the radio is dorked. Again, the owner is not an RCU member. And again, I'm sure that the friend who sent me the email will continue to be villified as a ''full of crap'' liar. I don't know either of the guys, but I have no reason to doubt their word. Neither does anyone else here, but those who seem to be so personally invested in being ''right'' will villify them anyway, I'm sure) , I have to stick with what appears, in my opinion, (That's cool. I simply wish everyone who's posted an opinion had the humility to label it as an opinion, that they not evidence contrary to their opinion simply because it is...contrary) the probably cause which includes more the the shape of the rotation. (the flight path, or ''shape of the rotation'', as you put it, is IMO one of the strongest point against the snap/spin theory. That's not the flight path of a spinning a/c, it's the flight path of a spiraling/barreling one, which demonstrates that the inside wing was not stalled...IMO) If anyone wants to video his Viper doing the exact same maneuver and post it here that might give us some more info too.
The attitude or direction of the flight path at entry are immaterial, as is the flight path once the spin is established, because the laws of aerodynamics don't care which way the jet is flying. A snap on a down line looks the same as one on an up line or a horizontal one.
I do not think anyone is picking on the pilot (he's been attacked by mutiple ''experts'' for poor judgement on a number of issues) or the fellow reporting the incident. I hope you remember it was HIS post and request for evaluation of the video ( The pilot, in fact, is not even an RCU member. Recall also that I have been forwarded an email from the pilot and friend of his, who upon exam of the wreckage have determined that there was indeed a radio issue which affected the flaps specifically. Of course, Chad has taken it upon himself now to brand the man a liar who is ''full of crap'', so yes...the pilot IS being attacked.) and I think everyone's opinion of the video is as valid as yours. No doubt it could have been a control surface problem, but in the absence of more post-accident specifics to the contrary, we have a dirty heavy (Really? How heavy was it? What was his fuel state? Smoke oil state? How long had he been in the air before the loop? How much smoke had he used? Were you there? Did you help carry away the wreckage perhaps and see what was left in the tanks? Is it possible that you have presented your own assumption as if it were a fact The assumtion is understandable, but I'm sure you'll agree upon further reflection that you have no knowledge of the weight and that ''heavy'' is not a fact in the vid or elsewhere.) ?airplane with a very high angle of attack and wing loading with a pilot possibility pulling back harder than normal to secure a gear (unless he just decided to do a dirty loop seconds after the nose gear went down). There was no evidence of any control issue prior to the abrupt roll to the right. (neither was there evidence that he was a poor pilot who did not have the talent or experience to successfully complete the manuver, but many here are more than willing to assume that was the case none the less. In other words, it is ASSUMED by many that the a/c was normal and the pilot malfunctioned. Why not assume that the pilot was funcioning normally and the a/c malfuncioned? There is more than a small amount of evidence that the airplane broke, but that is IGNORED my most, even as the continue to blame pilot error on the basis that his thumbs were ''plainly'' not correctly calibrated. Note that the a/c barreled right. it did not snap right.) Unless he reports to us some more specifics about a broken linkage or strip gear (Actually, please re-read the thread more carefully. He HAS reported, to me, and through his friend and fellow experienced Viper owner, that the flap function of the radio is dorked. Again, the owner is not an RCU member. And again, I'm sure that the friend who sent me the email will continue to be villified as a ''full of crap'' liar. I don't know either of the guys, but I have no reason to doubt their word. Neither does anyone else here, but those who seem to be so personally invested in being ''right'' will villify them anyway, I'm sure) , I have to stick with what appears, in my opinion, (That's cool. I simply wish everyone who's posted an opinion had the humility to label it as an opinion, that they not evidence contrary to their opinion simply because it is...contrary) the probably cause which includes more the the shape of the rotation. (the flight path, or ''shape of the rotation'', as you put it, is IMO one of the strongest point against the snap/spin theory. That's not the flight path of a spinning a/c, it's the flight path of a spiraling/barreling one, which demonstrates that the inside wing was not stalled...IMO) If anyone wants to video his Viper doing the exact same maneuver and post it here that might give us some more info too.
Regards, Don.
Almost 6 pages now!!!!! Hit it harder it aint dead yet!!!!!! Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Love the GIANT bold print as well.....
07-15-2010, 05:01 PM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
Oh wow, accelerated stall, flaps, whatever the reason was, that was a gorgeous jet to end like that. What a waste
07-15-2010, 05:42 PM
#120
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
My guess is that the tail and nose of the jet didn't stay aligned well enough coming out of the loop as a result of not enough rudder being applied to keep the tail alignment to the nose during the loop. Inthe frame at 0:46 seconds where the jet is at the bottom right of the video frame and immediately before the reversal snap-roll into the spin (at 0:47) the tail looks like it is sliding inward slightly toward the low wing. Looking at the wings at that same 0:46 frame they look they are starting to go a tad cockeyed to what thelongitudinal axis of the fuselage would be if it wasn't yawing. As such the fuselage begins to yaw its nose slightly outward toward the high wing. This is pulling the high wing out of optimum relative air flow position which will cause a separation of the air from the wing.The fuselage because of its turning slighly inward begins to induce drag which just compounds the situation further.
The fuselage at this point might be angled inward enough toward the low wing immediately before the snap-roll that the rudder would be rendered ineffective in holding the tail position in its alignment with the nose. Almost exactly at that same moment when this is occuring the snap-roll begins to occur rolling the jet toward thehigh-wing side. In essence the high wing leading edge was pulled out of position enough to cause separation of airflow fromthat high wing. Given the pulling of the wing out of position, the canards probably functionally failed as well.
So the root cause may fall to the side ofthe old proverbial [NTSB] "pilot-error" as a result of performing a loop without sufficient surface controlsthatheallowed the tail to slide toward the low wing. The rest is unfortunately history. I'm sorry tohave "thrown the pilot under the bus" on response but most crashes in real flyingor RC are due to pilot error, notalways necessarily strictly mechanical failure. There is no distructive intent toward the pilot with my opinion on this post. I wasn't there and at best Iam playing "armchair". The best of pilots make mistakes as we are all human.This doesn't mean the pilot is a bad pilot. It just means thepilot may have gotten a little behindin controlling thejet.....and then again maybe upon examination of the jet it will be discovered that a mechanical failure did in-fact occur.....
07-15-2010, 06:17 PM
#121
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
The fuselage at this point might be angled inward enough toward the low wing immediately before the snap-roll that the rudder would be rendered ineffective in holding the tail position in its alignment with the nose. Almost exactly at that same moment when this is occuring the snap-roll begins to occur rolling the jet toward the high-wing side. In essence the high wing leading edge was pulled out of position enough to cause separation of airflow from that high wing. Given the pulling of the wing out of position, the canards probably functionally failed as well.
That's funny ! I'm sure that's exactly what happened. If I ever have the pleasure of building a Viper I'm gonna leave the canards off to save weight and drag. U just can't trust the darned things to be there when u need them.EDIT: Oh, wait...after seeing your edit....you were serious? I can't tell...Doesn't matter, it's still funny !!
07-15-2010, 10:03 PM
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: highhorse
ROTFLMAO That's funny ! I'm sure that's exactly what happened. If I ever have the pleasure of building a Viper I'm gonna leave the canards off to save weight and drag. U just can't trust the darned things to be there when u need them.
EDIT: Oh, wait...after seeing your edit....you were serious? I can't tell...Doesn't matter, it's still funny !!
The fuselage at this point might be angled inward enough toward the low wing immediately before the snap-roll that the rudder would be rendered ineffective in holding the tail position in its alignment with the nose. Almost exactly at that same moment when this is occuring the snap-roll begins to occur rolling the jet toward the high-wing side. In essence the high wing leading edge was pulled out of position enough to cause separation of airflow from that high wing. Given the pulling of the wing out of position, the canards probably functionally failed as well.
That's funny ! I'm sure that's exactly what happened. If I ever have the pleasure of building a Viper I'm gonna leave the canards off to save weight and drag. U just can't trust the darned things to be there when u need them.EDIT: Oh, wait...after seeing your edit....you were serious? I can't tell...Doesn't matter, it's still funny !!
Happens all the time on therace track with cars entering track curves. The car willspin out depending whether the car is underpowered or overpowered to counter the centrifugal force upon driving the curve. The car in either case begins to move sideways to the forces and will spin out suddenly. On the race track it is called a snap-spin. The reaction of thejet is the same as a car- For the jet theairflow around thewingswill bubble and the adherence of the air flow streams around the wingwill suddenly separatefrom the wing resulting in a snap-roll......whether there are canards or not.
Idon't have a problem if you disagree but Ido have a problem with your unfounded arrogance.We all come here to discuss the issues not try to push peoples faces into whatever they try to offer. Right or wrong at least have some respect for other people's participation in the conversations. Having more than a thousand posts on a forum doesn't translate to some unspoken"earned" right to shoot your big mouth off and people are supposed to back down and cower to you. Even if you are right your arrogantnoise just completely overpowers the message ypu tried to deliver.the only thing people will take seriously about you is that you are justanother a-hole.
We aren't here to see howfarsomeone can piss. If you are here for that reason then perhaps you need to disqaulify yourself from the forum and find something more suitable for infantile fragile egos.
07-15-2010, 10:26 PM
#123
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
ORIGINAL: RCKindaGuy
i'm not sure what you think is so funny?
ORIGINAL: highhorse
ROTFLMAO That's funny ! I'm sure that's exactly what happened. If I ever have the pleasure of building a Viper I'm gonna leave the canards off to save weight and drag. U just can't trust the darned things to be there when u need them.
EDIT: Oh, wait...after seeing your edit....you were serious? I can't tell...Doesn't matter, it's still funny !!
The fuselage at this point might be angled inward enough toward the low wing immediately before the snap-roll that the rudder would be rendered ineffective in holding the tail position in its alignment with the nose. Almost exactly at that same moment when this is occuring the snap-roll begins to occur rolling the jet toward the high-wing side. In essence the high wing leading edge was pulled out of position enough to cause separation of airflow from that high wing. Given the pulling of the wing out of position, the canards probably functionally failed as well.
That's funny ! I'm sure that's exactly what happened. If I ever have the pleasure of building a Viper I'm gonna leave the canards off to save weight and drag. U just can't trust the darned things to be there when u need them.EDIT: Oh, wait...after seeing your edit....you were serious? I can't tell...Doesn't matter, it's still funny !!
Is this horse dead yet?
Jim
07-15-2010, 10:33 PM
#124
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RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
Jim:
I'm sorry for maybe keeping the horse alive but Iarrived into the conversation just today by chance and Iwanted to offer my opinion. And that is all that it was...an opinion...nothing more and nothing less. The only person intent on beating the horse dead is thethe one personwho has been screaming the loudest to FORCEhis point onto everyone. Perhaps he is the person that needs to be PM'd to remind him of the rules of the forum. I'll leave it at that.....
I'm sorry for maybe keeping the horse alive but Iarrived into the conversation just today by chance and Iwanted to offer my opinion. And that is all that it was...an opinion...nothing more and nothing less. The only person intent on beating the horse dead is thethe one personwho has been screaming the loudest to FORCEhis point onto everyone. Perhaps he is the person that needs to be PM'd to remind him of the rules of the forum. I'll leave it at that.....
07-15-2010, 11:09 PM
#125
RE: Skymaster Viper ..... unexplained crash??
The tail can either skid outside or fall/slide inside depending on the manuever and how much you oversteer or understeer the rudder to counter and depending on the the amount of power to counter the entropy that occurs.
Happens all the time on the race track with cars entering track curves. The car will spin out depending whether the car is underpowered or overpowered to counter the centrifugal force upon driving the curve. The car in either case begins to move sideways to the forces and will spin out suddenly. On the race track it is called a snap-spin. The reaction of the jet is the same as a car
Happens all the time on the race track with cars entering track curves. The car will spin out depending whether the car is underpowered or overpowered to counter the centrifugal force upon driving the curve. The car in either case begins to move sideways to the forces and will spin out suddenly. On the race track it is called a snap-spin. The reaction of the jet is the same as a car