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Kolibri fuel ramp

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Old 11-14-2018, 08:48 AM
  #76  
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Not sure if anyone is still monitoring this thread...

I bought my T35 new from the Turbine Shop (did not know about HAB at the time) about two months ago, everything went pretty smoothly and it arrived about a week after payment. Shortly after I got it I mounted it to my test stand and fired it up. I've never had a propane start turbine so this start process was new to me (I watched every you-tube video I could find on how to start the little T35 prior to my first start). The turbine started right up, I ran it up to full throttle a couple of times and then shut it down with a total run-time of about three minutes. Over the next few weeks I worked on getting the jet ready (Habu32). Last weekend I was finally ready to start the turbine mounted in the jet. I could not get it to ramp beyond beyond the initial propane ignition. After several attempts I disconnected the Kero fuel line to test if the pump was working, it was not. So, I loosened the two screws on front the pump and hooked up a 1.5v battery directly to the pump motor and it started turning. I slowly tightened the screws while the pump motor was turning. I then reconnected the fuel line to the turbine and the pump to the ECU and tried it again, success! The turbine started right up, I ran it up to full throttle a couple of times to make sure everything was working correctly. Next I'll mount the turbine back into the jet and try it again, hoping to get to it this upcoming weekend.
One lesson I learned from this thread that was not obvious in the videos I watched is that you have to be careful not to apply too much propane during the initial ignition sequence. First off, you will get a fairly large fireball, which can't be good inside your jet, and second I'm thinking that if the turbine EGT is too high from the propane the ECU will not start pumping fuel because of the risk of an overtempt? -Tom
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:41 PM
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First of all, Your pump not running looks a little odd, but could be a result of old fuel (oil) sticking in there as the tolerances in the pump-rotor housing are extremely small. You seem to have solved this apparently. Always a good idea to test the pump manually by applying power directly as long as the pump doesn`t run dry that is. Secondly, on this little gems it`s most important there is absolutely no air in the fuel-system. One air-bubble, and they shut down or will not start! First disconnecty the fuel-line from the turbine, then if you hold the throttle-stick full for a few seconds, the pump will engage and prime the fuel line. Then abort the start, reconnect fuel and you are good to go. As you already have discovered, the starting-gas needs to be applied very carefully. I myself does not even use a valve for the propane.Just opens up the bottle manually and slow, listening for the "pop"of the ignition. As the EGT temp surpasses 100 degree the pump will start. As summary - No Air in the fuel-lines, And filter your fuel, and filter it again! Micro -turbines is much more sensitive than their bigger brothers, but once you get the hang of it it works like a charm! Good Luck!
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:41 PM
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I did a few more practice starts today, I think I have the process down now. I have two filters in the fuel line plus I have a filter on the filler pump. Im also using a mini air trap to minimize of air bubbles. I agree that the propane valve is not really needed, but I will keep mine on there for now, might pull it after I have more experience with this little guy. Thanks for the help! -Tom
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:05 AM
  #79  
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Somethings are crazy again with RCU, will read and reply more in a bit.....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1wurOt3hV8eoLloMDx_i2-mIG79hZdCZ-/view?usp=sharing

A vertical video(!) too...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4W5PpIkGt0
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip22v View Post
After several attempts I disconnected the Kero fuel line to test if the pump was working, it was not. So, I loosened the two screws on front the pump and hooked up a 1.5v battery directly to the pump motor and it started turning. I slowly tightened the screws while the pump motor was turning. I then reconnected the fuel line to the turbine and the pump to the ECU and tried it again, success!
The pump are a delicate thing needing very little voltage in the initial ignition. Sometimes, specially when new it can need a little kick start. If I try to start my engine and it only runs on gas I shut down, cool the engine then just disconnect the JST connector of the pump and make a quick 1sec burst directly from the 2S li-po ECU battery. The connectors mate well if you unplug both ECU+pump. Now the pump gotten the little bump it needed and the turbine will start. This hard core priming will not flood the engine as the solenoid is shut.

The working cycle of a turbine jet is VERY simple. trouble shooting is often fairly easy. Just grab a pen and make a simple chart and like you found your self the problem is often not a big deal to crack.

As with propane I usually run my engine without valve adjusting the flow by hand. Initiating the starts seeing/hearing the engine spin free before adding a little gas, then balancing the flame by sound until the kero is ignited. usually this is a really fast procedure as seen in the video above.

Now over to RCG and drawing some schematics for K30 in a FW L39 :-)
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Old 11-15-2018, 08:27 AM
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Thanks all for the help, much appreciated.
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Old 11-26-2018, 12:38 PM
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Went to start my T35 this past weekend and I'm not getting any ignition. I can hear the propane swishing through the engine, but no fire. If the glow plug is bad, what kind of plug is it? Is it different from what we use in our glow engines? I have not yet done any troubleshooting e.g. checking the voltage from the ECU, or removing the plug to check to see if it glows yet. On the Xicoy ECUs I seem to remember that it would tell you if the glow plug was bad, not sure about this ECU. Thoughts?

Thanks,

Tom
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:11 PM
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I have the T25 and the plug supplied is a Rossi R1 v.Hot
Hope this helps
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by scoeroo View Post
I have the T25 and the plug supplied is a Rossi R1 v.Hot
Hope this helps
Thanks. Have you had any problems with your plug? I've only got about 5 runs on my mine so far. -Tom
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Old 11-27-2018, 01:53 AM
  #85  
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Just change plug, no big deal ;-)

Some propane just don't work. If temperature changes up the glow power etc etc....
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Old 11-27-2018, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip22v View Post
Thanks. Have you had any problems with your plug? I've only got about 5 runs on my mine so far. -Tom
No problems so far
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Old 11-27-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by scoeroo View Post
No problems so far
Were you able to find these glow plugs here in the US? So far, I've only found them available in Europe...
Can I use any "hot" glow plug e.g. OS #3?

Here is a close-up pic of my glow plug, should the filament be extruded like this? Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-28-2018, 05:55 AM
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http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/6399770-what-glow-plug-use-turbine-engines.html
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Old 11-29-2018, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Henke Torphammar View Post
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/6399770-what-glow-plug-use-turbine-engines.html
Thanks for the link, very helpful
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Old 12-03-2018, 12:57 PM
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I got my ignition issue worked out. It turns out that the short piece of 3mm tubing that connects the turbine to the little festo fitting was loose, which means that I was pushing propane into the front cavity of the turbine and that could have been bad had it ignited! After I fixed that I experienced the issue with the pump again, so I did want Henke recommended and hit it with brief dose of a 2S lipo, which freed it up. After that it started right up. Question: will the pump issue diminish over time as the pump breaks in?

Some here have mentioned not using the propane electro-valve and just metering the propane manually. I tried that a few times and found that my starts were much less consistent so I will need much more practice to make that viable for me. However, using the propane electro-valve does not mean it has to be installed in the jet. I removed mine from the jet and just hook it externally up for starting, saves a couple of ounces of weight, and my starts are consistent.

Overall I have been very impressed with the T35, it is quite the engineering marvel. This thread has been extremely helpful in working through my issues, big thanks to everyone.
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Old 01-14-2019, 10:44 AM
  #91  
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I've got two flights on my T-35 and it's performance has been flawless. I'm running a 710ml tank, according to the Lambert website the T-35 burns 119ml per minute at full throttle, does anyone know what the fuel burn is at idle and half throttle? Thanks, Tom.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:41 AM
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Default propane restrictor

Anybody using a restriction in the propane line for starting? My T-45 pops most of the time on start and I am trying to eliminate this.

Thanks,

Bob Neal
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip22v View Post
I've got two flights on my T-35 and it's performance has been flawless. I'm running a 710ml tank, according to the Lambert website the T-35 burns 119ml per minute at full throttle, does anyone know what the fuel burn is at idle and half throttle? Thanks, Tom.
Where did you buy your Lambert Motor?
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Old 02-19-2019, 08:06 AM
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Default Kolibri motor shop

http://www.turbinenshop.com/epages/61996464.sf/en_US/?ObjectPath=/Shops/61996464/Categories/Turbinen


Bob Neal
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob_B View Post
Where did you buy your Lambert Motor?
I bought mine from the Turbine Shop. The only downside was they only accept bank transfers for the big items. Still, it was not that hard to do a bank transfer. -Tom
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bobneal1 View Post
Anybody using a restriction in the propane line for starting? My T-45 pops most of the time on start and I am trying to eliminate this.

Thanks,

Bob Neal
I use a second valve inline to somewhat restrict the propane to minimize the pop. I had to trial and error to find the sweet spot. Are you using the electro valve on the propane side?
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tip22v View Post


I bought mine from the Turbine Shop. The only downside was they only accept bank transfers for the big items. Still, it was not that hard to do a bank transfer. -Tom
If I was going to get another one, which I might do, I would probably get it from HAB.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:51 AM
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Default Starting pop

Yes I am using the electro valve on the gas. That's a good idea to use a valve to adjust the restriction on the gas! I once had a Merlin 90 that would pop and I put a Robart air restrictor in the gas line drilled to about .030 and it stopped the popping. I got the idea from a Rhino that I had that came with a restriction in the line. I measured the oriface and copied it from that. I will probably try that again. I was just hoping someone might have already figured it out.


Thanks
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:01 PM
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What would really be nice is a variable electro propane valve controlled by the ecu to automatically ramp up the propane as it ignites (I know, keep dreaming) My T35 is my first propane start turbine so it was fun learning all the nuances of starting it, now that I have my start process repeatable it seems very easy, but I definitely had a few exciting starts while learning
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