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-   -   Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/10012395-bandit-arf-vs-super-bandit.html)

rcguy5 09-19-2010 09:04 AM

Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Hey guys,

I am trying to decide between the ARF and Super, I have searched for comparison threads with no luck. What I would like to know is besides paint prep and paint with the super, how much more work is involved with the super version over the arf?

Which would you go for regardless of the work involved and for what reason?

Do they fly the same and do they come out roughly the same weight with equal installs?

I like full gear doors and the airbrake but the arf doesn't have those, is there main gear doors available for the arf? Any opinions would be appreciated.

Mike

jetguy34695 09-19-2010 11:54 AM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
I have both the Superbandit is made to take as much speed as you can give it i have a Titian in mine it flys on rails but is very easy to stall due to the heavy wing loading the ARF is much lighter bigger wing and flaps it flys almost as good but not build as strong so becareful how fast you make it but i dont think you can stall it, it will slow down to a crawl it is a less stressful plane to fly

NickC5FE 09-19-2010 06:36 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
I love the Super and can say, it is built stout! Mine was a Super Balsa and it was nice, and fast.....The really good thing about the SBB is that it doesnt sound like a runaway shopping cart going down the runway :D because the wings are built up tough!

hpais 09-19-2010 06:53 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
from the building point of view, they're extremely different...

the ARF takes about three weeks to put together, roughly 36 hours of work. The most difficult part of the assembly is drilling the posts for the flaps accurately on both sides and installing the CF horns on the ailerons, rudder and elevator halves. That is to say, it's an easy airplane to put together. All doors come pre-cut, all formers are glued and the work left to the builder is installing the servos, air cylinders and turbine. Even the equipment layout on the radio plate is pre-done for you.

The Super Bandit is a kit. You have to install the formers. Wing alignment is a critical part of the install and is up to the builder. cutting the doors is also a no-mistakes allowed job and entirely yours. Then you have to build the piano hinges for ailerons, servo installation is not trivial as well... a lot of work if you're both very skilled at building jets, enjoy the construction work, and have plenty of time to build it. I think in a working person's schedule it's easily a 3-4 month job, over 120 hours of work.

Like the previous writer said, it's a very fast jet, easily taking a P-120 and handling it. It's much heavier than the ARF albeit almost the same size, so more critical to fly.

The ARF under Bob Violett's own words is not recommended above a P-80. we've heard of people folding the wings on the ARF by using a P-120 and pulling too hard.

My personal opinion is the ARF is a great airplane if you're a normally skilled pilot, Time-t0-fly is very rewarding, and a great all=around airplane.
The Super Bandit is for those very skilled guys, who need all the adrenaline they can get. Who love building or know someone who builds very accurately and don't mind paying the extra cost. It's an airplane for the true master of jets...



rcguy5 09-19-2010 07:18 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
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Thanks for all the replies so far guys.

I am definitely leaning towards a Super Bandit as I have great attention to detail and have already prepped and painted a jet in the past (pics of that jet below). Out of curiosity, what is the weights of both the barf and super versions dry.

Mike

LGM Graphix 09-19-2010 09:00 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
If I was going to do another Bandit it would be a BARF no question. The Super Bandit is nice, I had the composite one and it took FOREVER to build. It is probably 7 or 8 pounds heavier than the BARF. I watched a BARF fly this weekend at the Princeton rally and it looks much nicer to fly. Definitely lighter, low speed handling looks much better as well.
For the money, i think the BARF is a much better value and just as good or better of an airplane.

roger.alli 09-19-2010 09:45 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Hi Mike

I am currently at the end stage of building a Super that has taken me just over 12 months of part time work, and can agree with most that has been said above. I am going to power it with a Merlin 140, and expect it to come out at around 25-26 lbs dry. I think this will be a couple of pounds heavier then the B ARF, due to the amount of extra headwear and support structures in the flying surfaces.

I currently also own a Balsa Bandit which is 19 lbs dry, but this is a much lighter construction then the Super, so I don’t think BVMs web site stated figure of 17-21lbs would be possible for the Super. Dimensionally, the 2 models are nearly identical, the biggest difference is the Super has a 65” span compared to the 60” of the B ARF. All of the Bandit air frames are exceptionally good aerodynamically, but they do have a high wing loading, and the Super is the heaviest. It is designed to be the strongest and fastest of the Bandit family.

As far as I m aware there is no door kit for the B ARF, but it may be possible install doors using a similar system to the Super.

The Super Bandit is not that hard of a build compared to kits from the pre ARF era, but in this day and age it would be considered a big project. You will need a bit more skill and patience then your average ARF. The Fuse is supplied bare, so you need to fit all formers and cut all doors and some hatches. I found the most challenging and tedious part to be hinging the control surfaces which took me over a month of part time work to complete.

Like all BVM kits, they are very well engineered and use the highest quality parts, which fit together correctly. I am not the world best builder, but by following the methods and instructions in the manual, I can make a pretty good job with their kits. And the Staff at BVM are very helpful when I get confused or want to change something.

For me, building models is therapy away from the TV, so I don’t mind the effort required. And although the price is virtually the same as the B ARF, the Super has so many carbon parts and specially designed components, I think it is worth it.

So I will respectfully disagree with Jeremy.

Roger

LGM Graphix 09-19-2010 09:54 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: roger.alli



I currently also own a Balsa Bandit which is 19 lbs dry, but this is a much lighter construction then the Super, so I don’t think BVMs web site stated figure of 17-21lbs would be possible for the Super. Dimensionally, the 2 models are nearly identical, the biggest difference is the Super has a 65” span compared to the 60” of the B ARF. All of the Bandit air frames are exceptionally good aerodynamically, but they do have a high wing loading, and the Super is the heaviest. It is designed to be the strongest and fastest of the Bandit family.


For me, building models is therapy away from the TV, so I don’t mind the effort required. And although the price is virtually the same as the B ARF, the Super has so many carbon parts and specially designed components, I think it is worth it.

So I will respectfully disagree with Jeremy.

Roger

Hi Roger, The BARF has a 69" wingspan, it's a little bigger than a Super. They are both good airplanes, and while the components in the Super are more robust, the Super is $500 more than a BARF.
Really, when it comes down to it, while they are both Bandits, I don't know that a direct comparison can really be made, they are 2 different animals. If you want to fly hard and fast with a big engine in a bandit, the Super is for you, if you want to save yourself about 100 hours of building plus painting on top of it, and fly fast with some fuel efficiency, then the BARF is the one. I guess it really depends on the needs of the pilot :)

roger.alli 09-19-2010 10:56 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Yes you are right of course. It depends on what you want from the airframe. To see the two models side by side they are nearly identical (apart from the clipped wing), but they are much different animals.

The super is probably not going to be quite as nice to live with as an all round model as the B ARF, due to it being lighter and less complicated, and yes, it is cheaper and much much easier/quicker to get flying. But the Super has all the little extras, speed brake, doors, internal linkages etc. It is much more focused on out and out performance. I suppose that is why I own two of them.

It is a shame that BVM no longer do the Balsa Bandit kit. This would offer a builders kit in the market closer to the specs of the B ARF.

Roger

rcguy5 09-20-2010 03:24 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Hey Roger,

Just put an order in for a super bandit and mine will be fitted with a cheetah. I'm pretty sure I saw a thread where Jeremy stated his weighed in at 24lbs dry and that's with a heavier turbine I beleive, maybe he'll chime in and let us know.

Anybody else with a composite super know what their dry weight is.

Mike

roger.alli 09-20-2010 06:29 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
I believe the Cheeta and the Merlin 140 are pretty much the same engine so when mine is complete (probably around Chritmas) I will let you know. 24 lbs is probably achievable with these motors, especially if you take care with the install and don't put too many extras in. I think this will be a great combination.

Roger


rcguy5 09-25-2010 01:16 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Anybody have a pdf of the super bandit composite manual, my kit won't be ready for another five weeks. Only found the barf manual on bvm' site. You can send it to rcguy5@hotmail.com or post here if available. Also, still curious about dry weights for the super out there.

Thanks,

Mike

rcguy5 05-12-2012 07:38 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
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Hey Guys,

Just showing off my Bandit ARF that I maidened Friday. I ended up cancelling the Super version and went for the ARF because of limited time I had to build, I realised the amount of work involved after going through the Super' manual. Ironically I couldn't get the ARF done for last summer due to time and the fact that I ordered an all wite version to do my own paint on. I added a main gear door kit and powered the ARF with a Cheetah. All I can say is it completely surpassed all my expectations and am very happy with the Bandit ARF and with the power I chose. I enjoyed the build of the ARF Bandit so much that I also built an Electra on 10s this past winter. Both are incredible flyers and I will always have a Bandit from now on. I thoroughly enjoy BVM' products for their quality, engineered design and uniqueness. The Bandit in my opinion flys incredibly well and looks good at the same time, if not the best looking sport jet. Weight came in at 21lbs 10oz dry without missiles/pylons.

RJE 05-12-2012 08:05 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
That thing looks great..What paint did you use? did you clear it? Just got though painting the Mig 15...What PITA..Do you have some close up pictures? Great job enjoy it...

rcguy5 05-12-2012 10:16 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Hey RJE,

I used PPG solvent based paint in base then clear, i'm not sure of the name of the paint in PPG' lineup that was used. A friend did the actual spraying with me doing all prep work, the paint scheme is the same as the super bandit on bvm' site just in reverse with black lettering on red. Yes it was a PITA but well worth it in the end, I always dread doing the next one and eventually am glad I went with doing my own paint. I can take some cloe ups if you like, just send me your e-mail.

Mike

RJE 05-12-2012 11:40 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Mike,
Thanks, sent you a PM...

Bob_B 05-13-2012 04:37 AM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
My favorite sport scheme color! Looks very wicked.

BlueBus320 05-13-2012 05:48 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Just read this whole thread.. Pretty cool! She came out very nice... Might as well buy the coverKraft protectors, & always keep one int the fleet... Best looking sport jet for sure, & arguably best flying.. Enjoy my friend

DrV 11-23-2012 08:46 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Hi guys,

I'm bringing this tread back because I'm considering a Super Bandit turnkey with a P160 vs a new BARF with a P100 or the new p90. The turnkey Super will cost me about 2.5K less but I like the new BARF MKII features( the top hatch).

I would like to get opinions on the turbine, weather p100 or the new p90 would under power the BARF MKII. I generally like about 1:1 power to weight ratio. I like to pull verticals from a relatively slow flight without slowing down. I know that the BARF is more sensitive to high G loads and I'm not planning to pull hard on turns with full throttle. Would it be more appropriate for a P120 in my case?

I was also told that all bandits tip stall when slowed down, is this correct?

All opinions are appreciated.

Thanks In advance.

NickC5FE 11-23-2012 09:09 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
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Never had any tip stalls with my Super Balsa Bandit. Little bit of crow, speed brakes out and full flaps........These airplanes are amazing. If i could afford one again, i would buy another.....Wish i had never sold mine. One of those bad decisions you make in a relatively tough time.......

Mine was P120SE powered

That is Uncle Bob himself taking a pic of myself and the Corona Bandit!

FalconWings 11-23-2012 09:13 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
150 or so flights on my BARF, never had any sort of tip stalls. It slows down really well but the approach is long and flat. I pull it pretty hard too.
I use a P80SE and I love it, but it is far from being a speed demon like a Super on a 160.
They fly good, period.
David

dbsonic 11-23-2012 10:05 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
DrV, In my BARF I have a P120 and really like it. Its a great combination IMO.

DrV 11-23-2012 10:26 PM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
Thanks guys, this is great info and will help me make the right decision. So would you guys say the BARF MK II with a p100 is borderline underpowered?

What would be the better deal, turnkey older super with older p160 in a very good condition or build a new BARF MK II with new p100 or a used p120? The super is about 2-2.5k cheaper.

Thanks again

Harley Condra 11-24-2012 04:55 AM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
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As a point of information, the original BVM Bandit that I call the "Classic"or "Legacy" Bandit, was originally powered with a JPX turbhine, that made about 11 to 12 lbs of blow on a good day.
My first one in 1998 was powered by a RAM 750 that made 17 lbs. of thrust. It weighed 22 lbs., and was very fast. Not underpowered in the least. I have seen them powered by the small AMT's also.

A Bandit ARF MkII, powered by a JetCat P100 which is rated at 22.6 lbs would have plenty of power, and be very fast. In fact, 22 lbs is the maximum thrust we recommend for the airframe.
The current BVM Demo Bandit ARF is powered by a Jet Central Rabbit, which makes 22 lbs. I built that airframe just before Florida Jets of 2010, and everyone that has flown it and seen it fly remarks that it is perfectly powered. The Rabbit provides loads of power, is simple to install, and has a low installed weight.

Any 22 lb. engine works out very well. Used P-80's are found frequently, and a good example would be the perfect powerplant from a power to price ratio.
Actually, a Bandit ARF Mk II could be successfully flown with a Jet Central Bee (15.5 lbs).


My Super Bandit is powered by a P-120, and it is a bullet. I feel than anything more powerful is too much power. I haven't figured out exactly what to call it, as it used to be a Super Balsa Bandit, but I replaced the wings with composite wings, leaving the balsa empennage in place.

Personally, if I was in the market for another Bandit right now, I would opt for the new Bandit ARF Mk II.
The airframe is new, you know exactly what you are getting for your money, and it is an up to date design with many improvements.
BVM offers a variety of paint schemes, and it is very easy to build. There are no surprizes as sometimes found in a used jet.
There is plenty of factory support for either choice. Ask Ernie Duarte about the BVM factory support.

turnnburn 11-24-2012 09:15 AM

RE: Bandit ARF vs Super Bandit
 
I have not seen anybody mention it but I would go Bandit ARF, but only the mark 2 version for one simple reason, ease of assembly at the flying field. The wing attachment system is such an inprovment to any of the Bandits prior it is not even funny. Add to that all the other plusses for bandit arf and it is a no brainer in my estimation.


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