New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I'm looking for advice from all of you experienced and newbie jet jocks regarding a choice of first jet.

I'm considering the merrits of a Boomerang Elan, Boomerang XL and a BVM King Cat. My preference is toward a Boomerang jet simply because I can purchase the airframe, undercarriage and servos for what the airframe alone costs on the BVM King Cat. I need to add that I'm leaning toward the larger jets as I have a hard time seeing the small (under 70") aircraft against the sky. I already have a JetCat P-120 which I planned for a different project, but I'd like to use in this first jet.

Would the P-120 be a better fit in the ELAN (my preference, with the RPM turned down to emulate a p-80), or should I lean more toward the XL? Your experiences and comments are greatly appreciated.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I have owned both Kingact and Boomer XL II. Boomer was a sweet flier. Landed at walking pace. Aerobatics, snaps, flat spins, smoke, etc...

I was at first a little intimidated by Kingcat because it costs a lot, and frankly, it has a reputation for being very fast if you dont watch the throttle. So I tended to come in a little faster on landings for some reason assuming thats what has to happen. Then my friend Larry who owned one for what seems like 25 years, walked me through a flight with my Kingact where we went 3 mistakes up, dropped flaps, gear, dialed in crow, and went down to idle on my Rhino (36 lb thrust) and literally watched the bird slow down to 5 mph. Then I gave her full up elevator. NOTHING HAPPENED. Slight dip of nose, plane just slowly descended. Since then, I land my Kingcat at about 20 mph, and I am getting more courage with aerobatics and life is normal again.

The kingcat will weigh less than your Boomer XL and be lighter on the controls and is frankly much better looking in my opinion. If you are just learning, get the Boomer, its cheaper. Frankly you simply cant go wrong with either.

Shaz

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I agree, go with the boomer. biggest difference between the two is the price. I have a Boomer XL and have a blast flying it. Shaz is correct, it lands at a walking pace.......

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Would you think an ELAN or an XL a better choice with a P-120 turbine? I'd program the RPM down on the ECU to approach a P-80 performance if I were to do the ELAN. Thanks for the replies. Been thumbing through the ELAN build pages and I'm getting excited to start on one.

Lab Doc

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Between Elan and XL? Get the XL, bigger... easier to see, and slightly lower landing speed than Elan. Think about it....EVERYTHING you put in your Elan (apparently down to the exact turbine you will use) is exactly everything you put in your XL. But the Elan has "Y" wing area, while the XL has "Y+1" wing area. Obviously the wing loading will be less for the XL.

Just my opinion, but then again, you asked! :)

Shaz

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Get the boomer first. If its your first jet, you're gonna hurt it. It is much cheaper to repair that.

Raf

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

You cannot go wrong with the Boomerang XL. I have always kinda shunned non scale planes and maybe I am biased because of how much I enjoy mine but I love the way it looks. But it flys even better! A P120 is the perfect power for it too. Another thing to mention is that if this is your first jet the boomer has alot of room for your installation

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Elan and the P-120 (no need to turn it down) is a great combination.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

A friend of mine put this video of the us flying last years at our annual fall soup fly. there is a good shot the boomer XL flying with a P-120. I am at 1:40...........

Mark



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w66_S...layer_embedded

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Have you considered a Troy Built DV8R? It would make an exellent first jet. I have owned a boomer and I would choose the dv8r over the boomer any day. However, some do not like the look of the dv8r. Just a thought.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Hands down the Boomer is a better looking and a better flyer the the DV8R..................


Mark

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Better looking? Maybe. Better flying? Nope. I have owned both. The DV8R flys better, or at least I liked the way it flew better.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

+1 Reo's totally correct. P120 is perfect in the Elan. If you're going bigger - Torus but either with the XL or Torus, be sure to put something bigger than a P120 in it.

PaulD

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Thanks all for the helpful comments. I get a sense of conflict of opinions from a couple of responders, some stating that the P-120 is perfect for the XL and some stating that there should be something larger than the P-120 for the XL or Torus. I'm leaning toward toning down the P-120 in the ELAN as this size is more manageable and while the P-120 at full resolution is probably great for jet jocks with some experience under their belts, I'm concerned that the speed attainable with a P-120 will be too much for the airframe and it may get out of control for me even with throttle control. I'm still torn between the ELAN and the XL. I guess I'll just have to bite the bullet at some point. Thanks for all of the responses.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

On thing to consider is getting the Boomer or Kingcat to the flying site. If you have a trailer then there's no problem. The Boomber and the Kingcat will fit in a Suburban type vehicle with the booms on.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Lab, either choice is a good one. you will enjoy how the boomer fly's...... an Elan with a turned down P-120 or the XL with the P-120 will give you plenty of great flights.....

Mark

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I cannot disagree more with the above statement !!!!!

I have a 160 in my XL. Even though I loaded it up with a lot of crap I dont need and it turned out heavy it climbs straight up after t/o. I spend most of the flight at 1/2 throttle or less, often at 1/3.

The 160 takes a LOT of throttle management. Others have flown the XL, even from grass, with an 80.

I EMPHATICALLY recommend that the 120 is PLENTY of motor for the XL. I'm sorry if this seems offensive, but anyone saying otherwise is.........Just.Plain.Wrong.

Look thru the XL build thread and read the many, many comments regarding engine sizes.

Don.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I'm thinking the opposite, go with the Kingcat, it's mind numbingly simple to fly, but at the end of the day is capable of so much more. It looks better, flies better overall, and IMO is just more fun.
The Boomerang is easier in some respects sure, but it is a trainer jet. When you consider that it was only 6 or so years ago everybody thought the Kingcat was the absolute best trainer jet out there, you realize just how dependent we've become on super easy to fly airplanes. The Kingcat has no bad habits really for the type of airplane it is. It is very strong, and flies very well. I just recently sold mine after a few years of great hassle free use, if I ever wanted another twin boom jet that wasn't a JMP Hustler, it would be a Kingcat, the Boomerangs for me are just boring....

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

Thanks again for the comments. I think the BVM King Cat is off the board mainly because of the very high airframe price. I can have most of the equipment and the airframe in a boomerang for the price of a King Cat airframe alone. As far as performance, those who think the boomerangs are boring, that's a matter of opinion and perspective. I've seen more than a few videos of Ali Machinchy flying the boomerang jets (all of them) and his flights are certainly less than boring IMHO. Thanks again for the opinions

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

i have had two elans
awesome
ia have flown with rabbit which i still own and love i think it is perfect combo
i have also flown with 120 and it is unlimited vert on take off
i will soon fly it with a cheetah which will be thrilling

i think either rabbit 120 cheetah you will never want to let this bird goooooo
also if you graduate and take the the next step go with cheetah or 120 to easily transition to slightly larger jet even nice scale like viper 2m which i have ordered
either way i think of all the booms elan is best size and combo with budget

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I have heard that the Elan doesn't quite fly as nicely as the XL, or other Boomers; that the elevator can feel not as responsive as the XL. "Mushy", I believe, is the description I read somewhere. I'm just a lowly Intro/P-70 flyer, and have no first-hand knowledge. Can anyone shed any light on this? It might help Lab Doc with his decision...maybe me, too, one day ;)

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

As many have said, the Boomerang XL is a perfect first jet. I bought one last year and have 30 flights on it with no problems. I can get in and out of fields as short as 80 feet. I does slow to a crawl coming in and flight formation with other Xl's and elans is very impressive. I chose to power it with a 160. There is no need to de-rate the 160 to a lower setting with the ECU. I don't know what is wrong with all the other guys saying you need to de-rate it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the throttle control is a variable device. With that said, it is unwise to travel FOT straight and level with the boomer. I spend most of my time at 1/2 to 3/4 throttle and can get 15+ minute flights with it. Otherwise count on 8 minutes FOT. It's always better to have excess power when you need it and the extra power is great to awesome verticals.

Another thought as for powering it with a 160 vs 120. They both weigh the same, have the same dimensions and there are plenty of more airframes that call for a 160 than a 120.

As for powering an XL with a 120, that is the size recommended by Alan himself. With a 120 there is no chance of over-stressing the airframe and it would fly great as such.

Just my two cents.

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

If you already have a P-160 that's great, but as I stated at the outset, I already have a P-120. The cost of a turbine is not like purchasing a .60 glow engine, these engines are thousands of dollars. To sell my P-120 and then purchase a P-160 would result in a significant loss on the P-120 and then a huge expense with the P-160. My specific need is to pick an airframe appropriate to the P-120. From the many threads I've read and the many videos I've seen of the XL with a P-120, it is clear to me that a P-120 is more than adequate for the XL. I really wish Alan Cardash or Ali Machinchy would chime in here as they have the greatest practical experience with this line. I'm concerned that people forget that there's somewhat of a learining curve with jets, even for an experienced internal combustion engine pilot. Sure, it's great to have a bigger, more powerful engine. Consider when you were starting out with your first high-wing trainer, probably .40 size, maybe .60 size. If someone replaced your .60 engine with a DA-50, even if your airframe could handle it, it would be overwhelming to a beginner pilot. While I'm no beginner, I'm no expert jet jock. I'm trying to get my feet wet without being overwhelmed. My goal in purchasing the P-120 was to use it in a Composite-ARF Mig-15 which I'm currently assembling, but I wanted a day-to-day practice jet to get some experience and hopefully be able to use the engine in both airframes for economy. Please let me know if you feel my philosophy is wrong here.

I suppose if you have more money than God, then anything is possible; king cat, P-200, gold plating....

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

The 120 will fly the XL just fine amigo. It will fly the Elan with a bit more vertical performance. The Elan is a bit easier to transport (smaller) than the XL but both have nearly identical flight performance.

the XL is an excellent platform if you ever desire to purchase and test a big motor Olympus / P200 / Mammoth etc. before sticking it into a scale project.

Likewise, the Kingcat is an equally capable airplane with all the above attributes at a slightly higher price.

All 3 airplanes are a great value for the $ invested and whichever plane you choose will provide countless flights of stress free flying. The P120 will push all 3 airplanes with ease. Additionally, all 3 airplanes will scratch your itch as a daily beater bird until you finish the Mig.

good luck

RE: New to jets Boomerang vs BVM Kingcat
 

I'm sure wasn't trying to convince you to sell the 120 and buy a 160....he just missed the fact that u already own the 120. Either way he was only trying to help.

Ur philsophy is prudent, safe, justified. I'm sure that whoever is handling ur waiver would rather be checking u out on a Boomer or KC than a Mig as well.