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-   -   Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing. (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/11343124-wren-44-diesel-video-long-term-testing.html)

Canadian Man 12-24-2012 02:16 PM

Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM0o6hoFUGc&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

Posting a video of the first run of my wren 44 on diesel.

Reason for this is to have some long term results on the web. Others talk about doing it but no videos or other info posted that I can find.

Anyways I will post updates maybe 1/2 way through the upcoming flying season or if my turbine fails. :rolleyes:

Please keep in mind that this turbine is out of warranty. I am doing this for my own evaluation and it has nothing to do with wren.[link=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM0o6hoFUGc]link to video on Youtube.[/link]

Helijet 12-24-2012 03:29 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Looking forward to hearing about the results. With readily available diesel throughout the world, I am aware of three mainstream turbine manufacturers experimenting with diesel in modified designs.

There is a good chance that by the end of next year we will see engines with all electronics, pumps, solonoids hidden under the front cover and fueled by diesel / 2 stroke oil mix.


Dean W.

Canadian Man 12-24-2012 04:17 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Yea. With the new ULS (ultra low sulphur) diesel I believe it will be a non issue.


Dustin Buescher 12-24-2012 04:39 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Just a data point, today I reached 10.5 hrs and 54 flights on my rabbit burning diesel and 2 stroke oil. No issues.

mick15 12-24-2012 11:38 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Iv'e been running my EvoJet 160s on diesel for three years with no ill effects.

m

Canadian Man 12-24-2012 11:56 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Thanks for the addition guys! This is good info!

corndog2 12-25-2012 02:05 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
But isnt diesel far more expensive than Kero

Gordon W 12-25-2012 03:05 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
That depends on whether you can buy bulk kero or Jet A locally. I can't, and 4 litres of kero at my garden centre is around £6.60 - £7.00, ie £1.65 - £1.75 per litre. Looking on www.petrolprices.com the dearest diesel in my area is £1.45 per litre, so using diesel would effect a saving. 2-stroke synthetic is around £12 per litre. The weather has been so AWFUL this year with so few opportunities to fly that the price of diesel, oil etc has been the least of my worries!

Dr Honda 12-25-2012 04:00 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: corndog2

But isnt diesel far more expensive than Kero

In the USA... different regions will have different pricing and availability. I grew up in California, and Kero was hard to find, but Diesel was available. I now live in Pennsylvania, and I can find Kero at almost any petrol station.


Yes... Kero is cheaper right now... but since there is a lot of farming around here... I can buy "off-road diesel" for less. It doesn't have the taxes included because it is meant to be used in farm tractors.

HarryC 12-25-2012 05:10 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
If price is the issue, 28 second heating oil is the fuel to get. Conoco oil company says 28 second heating oil is just a synonym of gas turbine kerosene! Diesel is a 35 second oil so it is a bit more viscous than jet fuel.

Henke Torphammar 12-25-2012 06:01 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
We have been running a number of engines on Diesel + 2% 2stroke oil for several years now with no problems. Where among the Lambert Kolibri(ALOT of hours) and Kingtechs. The thing with Jet A1 is that is IS Jet A1 no matter where you buy it. Diesel can be anything from Soy to almost Jet A1 like. But the problem over here is that the only fuel you can buy at a resonable price is Diesel. We are not able to buy Jet fuel in a simple way and Kero is only available in small bottles priced very high.

In Sweden Diesel have to meet a special standard on various points where among one is lubricity. Jet A1 is much dryer and does not lubricate as well (as some Diesel in USA if I understand it correctly.)

Diesel and Jet A1 is not tested with the same method. Diesel is tested by HFRR and Jet A1 by another standard. If my googleling is right I found that Jet A1 would score around 700 in a HFRR test. I do not know which HFRR Jet A1 + 5% turbine oil is tested to. But atleast Swedish Diesel has to be <460micron

Reading this document you can se a base line fuel of HFRR 636(almost like Jet A1) tested with diffrent lubes. Adding 2% biodiesel is by far the best lube making the wear go down to 221micron. 0.5% 2 stroke oil takes the base line fuel down to about the limit for Swedish standards.

http://www.natbiogroup.com/docs/educ...%20results.pdf

Maybe this is not appliable on jet engine usage but I think it might give a hint on the lubricity.

Canadian Man 12-25-2012 07:17 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Regarding price. In my area. 20l of kero is $54.00 ish. 20l of diesel is $22.00 ish.

So for us it's a big difference.

Gordon W 12-25-2012 10:43 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Diesel at that price would make it like Christmas every day over here :D:D

Robrow 12-25-2012 11:08 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Gordon W

Diesel at that price would make it like Christmas every day over here :D:D
Try 1.6p/litre last time I filled up in KSA and you could really go to town and add some petrol @ 8p/litre :D

Rob.

Lee Cox 12-26-2012 07:41 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Hey Rob,

........And just to rub salt in the wound, we don't even get out of our cars, the pump attendant fill the tank and washes our wind screens, all for the bargain price.


Merry Xmas and Happy new year,

Lee
Dubai.

reo 12-26-2012 08:21 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
I always get a kick out of these threads where the price of fuel for our turbines is discussed and compared.......this is like a guy buying a Hummer and then complaining about the fuel costs......:)

mick15 12-26-2012 09:04 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Need to take into account the saving on turbine oil.
My engines are running at 100:1.

m

Canadian Man 12-26-2012 09:24 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: reo

I always get a kick out of these threads where the price of fuel for our turbines is discussed and compared.......this is like a guy buying a Hummer and then complaining about the fuel costs......:)
I have no problems buying Kero for my Jets. It's the expensive side of the hobby and I am aware of that when I got into this side.
If an alternative fuel offers the same performance and longevity then why not use it?

corndog2 12-26-2012 10:41 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryC

If price is the issue, 28 second heating oil is the fuel to get. Conoco oil company says 28 second heating oil is just a synonym of gas turbine kerosene! Diesel is a 35 second oil so it is a bit more viscous than jet fuel.


That is kero and is what I use. I pay &pound;0.58 p per Ltr here in the uk. I do however buy2500 ltrs at a time for my home heating
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Robrow 12-26-2012 10:52 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Lee Cox

Hey Rob,

........And just to rub salt in the wound, we don't even get out of our cars, the pump attendant fill the tank and washes our wind screens, all for the bargain price.


Merry Xmas and Happy new year,

Lee
Dubai.
Hey Lee, seasons greetings, good to hear from you, yes...total pain filling up at home these days!

Rob.

speed is life 12-26-2012 11:21 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Interesting points on this thread, the turbine manufacturers evidently base their concern on the corrosion of the sticks caused by high sulfur content of "standard" Diesel.<div>The reference to the sulfur content of Kero -vs- Diesel evidently is the 900lbs gorilla in the room because there is so much variance worldwide.</div><div>
<div>As far as I can discern, the sulfur standard for pump grade Kero in the USA is "less than 400ppm". (How much less?)</div><div>Quote: "<span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><span style="text-align: justify; ">1-K specifications set by ASTM</span><span style="text-align: justify; "></span><span style="text-align: justify; ">D-3699 and is specially refined to contain less than 400 ppm Sulfur max."</span></span></div><div>-Now-</div><div>The USA current Federal EPA standard for highway pump #1 Diesel "ULSD" (ultra low sulfur diesel) is "max 15ppm sulfur"</div><div></div><div>So is the mandated pump grade #1Diesel sold for highway use in the USA actually preferable to our Kero insofar as desirable levels of sulfur?</div><div></div><div>Pump grade #1 Diesel is still relatively less expensive than 1K Kero here in the States......</div><div>-Mike</div><div></div><div style="text-align: -webkit-auto;"></div><div>
<div></div></div></div>

Canadian Man 12-26-2012 11:50 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
Thanks Mike.;)

Thats right up there with the point I'm trying to make.

I searched the Kero that we buy in 10L jugs from our local stores and the Guaranteed PPM of Sulphur is below 1000ppm. Typical is below 1ppm. Thats some wide variance.

Our ULS Diesel is below 15ppm.

No brainer:eek:

PaulD 12-26-2012 03:27 PM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 
I like to burn Jet-A1. But that's only because I don't pay for it.:D

Sorry guys. Couldn't resist. :)

Trying to understand why ULSD would make a difference with the turbines? The oil content we put in the fuel - either Diesel, Jet-A or Kero lubricity would be insignificant. Or am I missing something?

PaulD

reo 12-27-2012 07:25 AM

RE: Wren 44 on diesel. Video for long term testing.
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Canadian Man


Quote:

ORIGINAL: reo

I always get a kick out of these threads where the price of fuel for our turbines is discussed and compared.......this is like a guy buying a Hummer and then complaining about the fuel costs......:)
I have no problems buying Kero for my Jets. It's the expensive side of the hobby and I am aware of that when I got into this side.
If an alternative fuel offers the same performance and longevity then why not use it?
I guess what I was getting at was that the cost of the fuel for our jets is the least of our worries pricewise considering what we put into these projects before we buy our first ounce of fuel. Diesel, kerosene, Jet A or whatever, I think our bigger concern is the oil that we are using, mainly from a health point of view, if we could change that it would be a big step forward.


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