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-   -   Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/3514097-violett-pattern-prototype-blast-past.html)

Couch-pilot 11-02-2005 10:41 AM

Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
1 Attachment(s)
Anybody have pics or a 3-view of this? It was Bob Violett's pattern model from the '74 Toledo show I think. I believe it was made to test the Scozzi (later Turbax) family of fans. From what I've read, it hit a pole at an incredible speed.

I really wanna build one...:D

EASYTIGER 11-02-2005 10:52 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
I was trying to tell people about that one when the Bobcat came out. You can't help but notice that the Bobcat is the same plane, albeit much updated, and Bob sort of paid homage to himself, he remade his first DF model in a new modern way.
You can say what you want about Old Bob, for better or for worse, but you can't take away his many contributions to this hobby. He has been at it a long, long time, and has approached each problem with a methodical and uncomprimising approach, like making his own fans and engines and retracts when he could not find really suitable units. Great stuff. Also, you can't overstate the importance of the lightness approach he took to DF models in the Eighties...he looked around, and saw that if he could shave a couple of pounds from the birds, it would be a free ride to a whole new level of performance, so he went carbon fibre crazy and it really changed everything. Go Bob!

EASYTIGER 11-02-2005 10:57 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
I've never seen plans or a three-view, only the two pics you posted above.
The Sundowner, another early DF plane by him, plans are available from RCM, I think.
The Compass Cope was kitted by Bridi, it's a pretty rare kit, I had one, sold it to someone, I think Chris True.

Woketman 11-02-2005 12:36 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
I remember watching BV fly the Sundowner at the Lakehurst Aerolympics in '74 (I think it was '74). I was mesmerized by it!!!

EASYTIGER 11-02-2005 12:37 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
But the A-4 was the one that REALLY turned the world on its head. Still available after all these years, from JHH.

JMCJET 11-02-2005 01:44 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
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Don`t know if this help. Maybe asking Mr. B.V. . Anyway, it was interesting know more about this plane

Couch-pilot 12-07-2005 11:10 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Ok, still lookin for info....If Mr. Violett happens to read this, how much are plans????:D:D

Couch-pilot 02-22-2013 10:03 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Gonna try bumping this one...

Has anyone seen this plane / or articles in magazines with better pictures?? :D

Art ARRO 02-22-2013 11:39 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Couch-pilot,
The "Sundowner" DF design article was published in AMA's magazine, "American Aircraft Modeler", now "Model Aviation". Contract AMAHQ, Plans Service, phone: 765-287-1256 x 507 to see if the plans and article reprint are still available. The "Sundowner" would make a fine model for EDF power with a 90-100mm fan.
BV's"Compass Cope" design was originally published in "Model Airplane News" and later kitted by Joe Bridi. I did a finish buildand test flights on one during the late 80's for a fellow club member. I recall it flew very well off grass atthe N. Utica Airport in Marcy, NY- now a Walmart Distribution Center.
Bob's A-4 Skyhawk was developed as a semi-kitin themid-70's and initially flown with a K&B 6.5FIRE engineand Perry Pump. The K&B7.5 DF replaced it about 1978-1979. Ipurchased and built my first A-4 in '79and flew it at the 1980 AMANats with BV as my caller/spotter.Helater sold the A-4 production rights to Larry Wolfe of Jet Hangar Hobbies and I believethe kitis still available. I've currently started the build of a second BVM A-4 to be powered by a Wren 44K turbine.
A bit of history andjets havecome a long way since the early 1970's.

Art ARRO

mr_matt 02-22-2013 11:49 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Art we were just speaking it is great to see someone post with some knowledge of the history of jets.

Thanks for taking the time.

BTW I ran several FIRE K&B 6.5 and 7.5s and had a scozzi but before I got a plane I made the jump to Ramtec and a K&B100 (with the aftermarket RPM rod). Then I went BVM and did not look back.

Anyone who got a plane to fly with a Turbax 1 and a 7.5 is a hero in my book. I would love to see a nice ICDF again, I remember when we complained when they would start in the pits at a jet rally, I have not seen an ICDF in 10 years

dbsonic 02-22-2013 12:04 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Interesting stuff. JHH A-4. Did not realize that is a BV design.
I flew a JHH F-86 on a Turbax w/ K&B48 maybe 12 years ago. But she flies a lot better as an EDF now(same Turbax being used tho).

Couch-pilot 02-22-2013 12:13 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Great info, Art! Always dreamed about the Skyhawk as a kid.

The plane I'm looking for info on isn't the Sundowner, but what LOOKS like a predecessor of the Bobcat design. It is only labelled as "Violett's futuristic pattern bird".

It is in the first two pictures in this thread.

The Sundowner was a "sorta" F-4 Phantom, with a Scozzi fan slung under it. This one has a mid/top mount fan at rear of fuse/wing, between two vertical fins. It was flown (and pretty well smacked) at the '74 Nats. I've only been able to find two pictures, and was wondering if anyone else had seen it in a magazine, or at the Nats and has pics. I did email BVM, and if I remember right it was a Jason (Schulman?) that informed me that BV himself couldn't remember!

Couch-pilot 02-22-2013 12:18 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
The original Bobcat was a FAI Pylon job, right? A really innovative one.
Does anybody know anything about the first DF model he brought to toledo? He hit a telephone pole with it. I saw some pics, it looked a lot like the NEW Bobcat...

Quote form EASYTIGER in another thread. :D

Woketman 02-22-2013 01:11 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
In 1974 (I believe) my dad and I watched BV fly the Sundowner at the Aerolympics at Lakehurst in New Jersey.

Harley Condra 02-22-2013 02:27 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Couch-pilot

The original Bobcat was a FAI Pylon job, right? A really innovative one.
Does anybody know anything about the first DF model he brought to toledo? He hit a telephone pole with it. I saw some pics, it looked a lot like the NEW Bobcat...

Quote form EASYTIGER in another thread. :D

BV still has the FAI Bobcat. It was on a shelf in the shop until recently. I think he dusted it off and took it home.

Couch-pilot 02-22-2013 03:24 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Just did some Googling and checked the pics - that's not the one either, Harley. The one I'm trying to find pics of was powered by a Scozzi ducted fan. BV did design some SHARP looking planes though...

Art ARRO 02-22-2013 04:22 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
ALCON,
Can't help with any info on what appears to be a BVMBobcat predecessor- from the photos taken at the '74 Toledo Expo. Maybe BV himself can shred some light on this- Harley?
The original Bobcat was an FAIF3D pylon racer that Bob and his pylon partner, Cliff <u>A</u>. <u>T</u>elford designed in the early 1970's. The model's name is a contraction of their own- Bob&amp; CAT. Incidentially, this team won the <u>FAIF3D World Championships twice</u> before the rules were changed to outlaw the design features.
Bob worked closely with Joe Scozzafava (sp), the designer of the Scozzi fan unit, to develop suitable jet airframes for this unit. The "Sundowner", "Compass Cope" A-4 Skyhawk and, possibley the Bobcat predecessor, were all steps or stages in the process. The current Bobcat design was revealed at a late '80s Toledo Expo as a entry-level turbine jet, primarily for the 12 lb thrust units such as the Wren 54/RAM 500/SimJet 1200/ etc.
My personal regret with turbines was not to buy, build and flya Bobcat and, instead mucked around for too many years with turbine conversions of unsuitable DF models. Live and learn I guess.
Digressing a half century or more, BV and I used to compete together in controline speed, where he usually won the Senior Class (younger than 18)and I was 2nd. We also competed against one another in FAI and Formula 1 pylon racing, where he was clearly the victor.

Art ARRO



erbroens 02-22-2013 04:50 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
1 Attachment(s)
This is the first BVM plane called Bobcat... vert interesting design with anhedral elevator and a single wheel landing gear flushed in the fuselage, and a mini pipe. I used to see this things in MAN when I was 10 and fancied a r/c plane while flying u-control(!)


Art ARRO 02-22-2013 05:47 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Yes, these are the original Bobcats, as designed for FAIF3D pylon racing. The adhedral stab was to get the elevators out of the wing wash. Mini pipes were not allowed but their model sported a tuned muffler which actually boosted the engine power. Fixed two-wheeled landing gear was required by rules and BV installednarrow "pizza cutter" wheels in tandem-one behind the other in a streamlined fairing. If you note closely, in the original photos, these Bobcats sported music wire "whiskers" to prevent the model from nosing over during takeoff. All very clever design features, way back when.

Art ARRO

erbroens 02-22-2013 06:25 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Excuse my curiosity, but it was you that tested the space shuttle model on r/c plane plane some years ago?







Harley Condra 02-22-2013 07:07 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
Quote:

ORIGINAL: erbroens

This is the first BVM plane called Bobcat... vert interesting design with anhedral elevator and a single wheel landing gear flushed in the fuselage, and a mini pipe. I used to see this things in MAN when I was 10 and fancied a r/c plane while flying u-control(!)


This is the FAI Bobcat I referred to in my previous post. As I recall, the FAI rules required two wheels, so two wheels were set up in tandem, as stated by Art Arro.

Art ARRO 02-22-2013 07:44 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
erbroens,
Yes, I was involved with the flight testing of an R/C Space Shuttle model at the Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX many years ago.
We first launched a Shuttle model from a Sterling Gazorata (sp) mother ship. This concept was originated by John Kiker, a NASA employee,to solve the problem of transporting the full scale Shuttle vehicle from CA, where it was built, to Kennedy Space Center, FL where it would be launched from. The current thinking back then was to transport the Shuttle on a barge through the Panama Canal and across the Gulf of Mexico as it was too large for ground transport. John figured that the Shuttle vehicle could be mounted on a large aircraft and flown from CA to FL. A major engineering problem was the separation of the two vehicles if required, as during an emergency. Successful separation was initially achieved (to the amazement of the Rockwell Intl engineers) with the Gazorator and Shuttle model. It was all documented on movie film and I was a backup pilot for the Shuttle. Later in the project ,a 1/10th scale Boeing 747 was constructed and powered by 2ea K&amp;B40 engines with Perry Pumps. I set up those engines for reliability at max power. Several successful separation tests were conducted between the 747 and the Shuttle model. I believe that the model747 and Shuttle now resideat the AMAMuseum in Muncie, IN. Those were the days!

Art ARRO


erbroens 02-22-2013 07:57 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
amazing! pleased to meet you here!

still have the original magazine with the 747 and shuttle in the cover.





argyris 02-22-2013 11:58 PM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Art ARRO

erbroens,
Yes, I was involved with the flight testing of an R/C Space Shuttle model at the Johnson Space Center, Houston, TX many years ago.
We first launched a Shuttle model from a Sterling Gazorata (sp) mother ship. This concept was originated by John Kiker, a NASA employee, to solve the problem of transporting the full scale Shuttle vehicle from CA, where it was built, to Kennedy Space Center, FL where it would be launched from. The current thinking back then was to transport the Shuttle on a barge through the Panama Canal and across the Gulf of Mexico as it was too large for ground transport. John figured that the Shuttle vehicle could be mounted on a large aircraft and flown from CA to FL. A major engineering problem was the separation of the two vehicles if required, as during an emergency. Successful separation was initially achieved (to the amazement of the Rockwell Intl engineers) with the Gazorator and Shuttle model. It was all documented on movie film and I was a backup pilot for the Shuttle. Later in the project ,a 1/10th scale Boeing 747 was constructed and powered by 2 ea K&B 40 engines with Perry Pumps. I set up those engines for reliability at max power. Several successful separation tests were conducted between the 747 and the Shuttle model. I believe that the model 747 and Shuttle now reside at the AMA Museum in Muncie, IN. Those were the days!

Art ARRO


Dear Mr ART i found this video about shuttle testing

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDET3VuT9jE[/youtube]

argyris 02-23-2013 12:13 AM

RE: Violett Pattern Prototype - Blast from past
 
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjPO8k2r-ks[/youtube]


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