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-   -   The best ECU for your turbine? (http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/rc-jets-120/8390980-best-ecu-your-turbine.html)

Bobby Berry 01-23-2009 06:57 AM

The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Good day all

Please refer to the following link of the new Projet Hornet 3 ECU.

Google translated link:

http://translate.google.co.za/transl...ial%26hs%3Dtad

Original German link:

http://www.jet-hangar.de/artikel/artikel.php?id=18

According to the review, this is the ECU that is setting a new standard in turbine controller technology. The ECU monitors ramping under live curve. This results in faster acceleration / deceleration and reduces the possibility of rich or lean flameouts. The Frank TJ67 turbine was almost unrecognizable following the conversion to the new Hornet 3 ECU.

Regards
Bobby

AndyAndrews 01-23-2009 10:31 AM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
The best one for me is the one that ships with it. But hey, the manufacturers should always look at new and better units.

1Eye 01-23-2009 12:54 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Quote:

Bobby observed ...
According to the review, this is the ECU that is setting a new standard in turbine controller technology. The ECU monitors ramping under live curve.
Interesting. I found [link=http://www.medusapower.de/xtcommerce/index.php/cat/c9_ECU-TCU.html]this link[/link] for the various piece-parts but no manual, Deutsche or otherwise.

josecilurzo 01-23-2009 01:25 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
If you bought a turbine, it comes complete, I think is better you does not invent the wheel again!!! more expensive. Leave to the manufacturers.

hope help

jose [8D]

FalconWings 01-23-2009 02:54 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Thinking about it..........
What is the input of an ECU?
1.EGT
2.Compressor Speed
3.Pump Voltage

What is the output?
1.EGT
2.Compressor Speed


Using a "simple" Laplace Transformation........and some Matlab/Simulink.............it should not be that difficult to create a Self Teaching Universal ECU my friends. It should be just a matter of time. Perhaps is a well kept secret.
We need an ME Intern to crack this one out. Let me see I think I have an Intern somewhere in my desk??

:)

digitech 01-23-2009 02:56 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
The very first ecu that Artes sold 11 years ago already had this "new"
tecnology. Live to see.

Joe C 01-23-2009 03:09 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
I don"t think there is a better ECU then Jetcat"s Jettronic, my opinion. Joe C!!

johnnyjet 01-23-2009 03:28 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Jetcat


Johnny

rhklenke 01-23-2009 03:31 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: FalconWings

Thinking about it..........
What is the input of an ECU?
1.EGT
2.Compressor Speed
3.Pump Voltage

What is the output?
1.EGT
2.Compressor Speed


Using a "simple" Laplace Transformation........and some Matlab/Simulink.............it should not be that difficult to create a Self Teaching Universal ECU my friends. It should be just a matter of time. Perhaps is a well kept secret.
We need an ME Intern to crack this one out. Let me see I think I have an Intern somewhere in my desk??

:)
The inputs are EGT and RPM (compressor speed) and the output is pump voltage... I think in most ECU's, EGT is only "monitored" and its the RPM that is the real controlling input, but I may be wrong...

Bob

Gaspar 01-23-2009 04:27 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: rhklenke


The inputs are EGT and RPM (compressor speed) and the output is pump voltage... I think in most ECU's, EGT is only "monitored" and its the RPM that is the real controlling input, but I may be wrong...

Bob

Yes, in the case that I know, you are absolutely wrong. It is a bit more complicated.

Gaspar

Bobby Berry 01-23-2009 04:33 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
You will find the firmware and the German manual at the following link. http://www.projet.de/turbine/download.html

FalconWings 01-23-2009 04:36 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Gaspar


Quote:

ORIGINAL: rhklenke


The inputs are EGT and RPM (compressor speed) and the output is pump voltage... I think in most ECU's, EGT is only "monitored" and its the RPM that is the real controlling input, but I may be wrong...

Bob

Yes, in the case that I know, you are absolutely wrong. It is a bit more complicated.

Gaspar
I'm with Gaspar..........I think at a given time:
1. the pump voltage will give you a certain RPM and thus EGT.
2. the compressor RPM will alos give you a certain EGT depending on the pump voltage
3. the EGT will vary with pump voltage, and compressor speed. Compressor speed is an equation directly related to the turbine design. The speed you get will depend on the efficiency of the design.

This is oversimplified, but it is the way I would approach ECU design.........as if I ever would! :D

Gaspar, coño corrijeme. :)

Bobby Berry 01-23-2009 06:03 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Interesting, I also agree that manufacturers should stick to their ECU’s. They should not reinvent the wheel but only improve the wheel. Homebuilders still need to choose the best ECU for their turbines and this might be more applicable to them. Turbines almost reached their limit of optimization. However, all the ECU’s are programmed with preset acceleration / deceleration curves, limiting the possibility of faster acceleration. If I understand correctly, the new Projet ECU accelerates the turbine by monitoring and updating temperature rise in milliseconds, this ensuring that the temperature does not run away and that the turbine accelerate according to the current ambient conditions resulting in optimal performance. I also agree that Jettronics might be a better option and I would like to see some competition and breakthrough in preset limited acceleration curves. According to the previous mentioned review the TJ67 Frank turbine performed much better and was almost unrecognizable following the upgrade from the previous Projet to the Hornet 3. Projet might be on to something. However choosing the best ECU also involves availability, manuals and after sales service. This is currently a problem for Projet.
Regards
Bobby

josecilurzo 01-23-2009 06:54 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
JETTRONIC; GASPAR; BOB PRICE = THE GUYS AROUND WORLD...


JOSE[8D]

OOPSSS...!!! INCLUDE MY FRIEND ANDY ( ELECTRODYNAMICS ) - I NOT WISE , BUT, HE MANUFACTRES ECU TOO, AND, WITH CERTAINTY OF EXCELLENT QUALITY, LIKE ALL YOUR PRODUCTS, I USE EDR108 WITH REDUNDANT SWITCHS AND BATTERY PACKS FROM ELECTRODYNAMICS IN ALL MY JETS!!!!

causeitflies 01-23-2009 07:45 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
This may be good for homebuilders, experimenters or someone converting from manual start to auto etc...

jonkoppisch 01-23-2009 07:48 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
What's the price of it? If it's reasonable, might be a good replacement for a bad ram ecu etc..

Ruizmilton 01-23-2009 07:49 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Having tested most of them, and unless any of you have access to the programming parameters (like Gaspar) I would say that I would prefer Gaspar's FADEC over all others, more and more turbines manufatured today have it (Jet Central, Wren, Jet Munts, Simjet) for the most part, the actual maximum posible acceleration is determined by the turbine design(efficiency, rotating mass, compression ratio, bearing drag, losses) as well as a good combustion chamber design, it is not determined by the FADEC, what it just does is limit turbine response to the established "safe" parameters, thus controling accel speed. Try to accelerate a turbine faster than it's design allows and the CC will no longer vaporize the volume of fuel input and you'll see the combustion go out the tail cone where it no longers exerts force on the turbine wheel, RPM's go down and you'll just have a flamethrower. the same applies for deceleration, too fast and you have flameout...

BTW, Temperature is actively monitored and it controls acceleration speed by detecting how fast the value moves towards the maximum allowed, if temperature is increasing too fast and is nearing the max, it slows down acceleration, even limit power.

JET FX 01-23-2009 09:55 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
FADEC... Of course, its the most compact, consistently reliable AND most widely used ecu for a very good reason...;)

capnbob-inactive 02-01-2009 05:45 AM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Hi All,

I don't have the faintest idea about ecu design, however I have a little experience in the use of the Wren MW54 turboprop engine. In most respects this unit operates quite satisfactorily but has the tendency to rpm hunt at idle which can considerably lengthen the float and ground run on landing. It would appear to be due to variation in the pump rpm which may be due to fluctuation in the supply voltage to the pump, the rpm can vary by +/- 5000rpm.

There currently exists a method of providing stable rpm on electric motors used for outrunner motors: the esc. If the other inputs required for turbine control were able to be mixed with the rx throttle demand input of an outrunner speed controller would it be possible to control the motor rpm via frequency rather than voltage?

causeitflies 02-01-2009 05:11 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Wouldn't that require a brushless pump motor?

capnbob-inactive 02-02-2009 12:47 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Yes it would...

Crazy4Flight 02-02-2009 01:34 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 

Quote:

ORIGINAL: capnbob

Hi All,

I don't have the faintest idea about ecu design, however I have a little experience in the use of the Wren MW54 turboprop engine. In most respects this unit operates quite satisfactorily but has the tendency to rpm hunt at idle which can considerably lengthen the float and ground run on landing. It would appear to be due to variation in the pump rpm which may be due to fluctuation in the supply voltage to the pump, the rpm can vary by +/- 5000rpm.

There currently exists a method of providing stable rpm on electric motors used for outrunner motors: the esc. If the other inputs required for turbine control were able to be mixed with the rx throttle demand input of an outrunner speed controller would it be possible to control the motor rpm via frequency rather than voltage?

I had a RAM turbine that would hunt for Idle speed. with up to +/-3000 rpm variance. The root cause was pump was too "tight". I was told, by carlos of RTI who sold the pump to me, to run the pump recirculating fuel in a loop to "wear in " the gears. Watching the data terminal the PPW pump pulse width was about 52 +/- 3. Bob Price told me the PPW should be in the low 70s (72 to 74). The pulse width changes at 50 was causing a large change in fuel flow. Hence extreme idle speed changes. I substituted a Jetcat P-80 pump and and the RAM 750 had smooth idle with +/- 300 RPM max. Carlos would not exchange the pump... so I spent hours running the pump and later sold the turbine.

capnbob-inactive 02-03-2009 03:31 AM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
Hi c4f,

I too ran the pump for many hours at low voltage to "run it in", however the engine still continued to hunt at idle. The original idea that I posted sought to enable stable rpm operation utilising existing equipment... Might work?? Regards.

Woketman 02-03-2009 06:44 AM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
In my experience I would also say the FADEC is tops (but I have not used every type).

One thing is for certain, I'd say stay away from the TEMS. Cost me an airframe once, due to its unreliability.

josecilurzo 02-03-2009 06:15 PM

RE: The best ECU for your turbine?
 
GREAT GASPAR !!!!!!!!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS FOR YOUR NEW MERLIN 110 GOLD EDITION!!!!!!!!

AND, THE FADEC GOLD EDITION!!!!!

JOSE [8D]


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