Genesis
05-18-2004, 01:52 PM
#26
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RE: Genesis
Power to Weight ratios are calculated with the formula "weight / HP" and is expressed as "10 to 1"
For the LST, I have read that the weight is 13 lbs and the Mach .26 engine is rated at 2.75 HP so:
LST = 4.73 to 1
Savage is about 11.5 lbs in stock form and Nitro Star 25 engine is rated at 2.5 HP so:
Savage = 4.6 to 1
CEN Genesis is widely believed to be 17 lbs and the new .46 engine is claimed to produce 5 HP so:
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
Traxxas REVO weighs 9.4 lbs and the 2.5R engine is rated at 1.3 HP (I think but please post correct HP if you know differently), so:
REVO = 7.231 to 1
REMEMBER! Like in Golf, the lower number is better. That means you are pusgin less weight with each HP. So according to Power to Weight ratios alone then the Genesis wins hands down. But, P/W ratios aren't everything though. Gearing and suspension efficiency and torque have a lot to do with things too.
I got this from another board at RCU. Here we see the Genesis is still better and probably will be a good racer.
For the LST, I have read that the weight is 13 lbs and the Mach .26 engine is rated at 2.75 HP so:
LST = 4.73 to 1
Savage is about 11.5 lbs in stock form and Nitro Star 25 engine is rated at 2.5 HP so:
Savage = 4.6 to 1
CEN Genesis is widely believed to be 17 lbs and the new .46 engine is claimed to produce 5 HP so:
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
Traxxas REVO weighs 9.4 lbs and the 2.5R engine is rated at 1.3 HP (I think but please post correct HP if you know differently), so:
REVO = 7.231 to 1
REMEMBER! Like in Golf, the lower number is better. That means you are pusgin less weight with each HP. So according to Power to Weight ratios alone then the Genesis wins hands down. But, P/W ratios aren't everything though. Gearing and suspension efficiency and torque have a lot to do with things too.
I got this from another board at RCU. Here we see the Genesis is still better and probably will be a good racer.
05-18-2004, 02:00 PM
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RE: Genesis
Genisses sucks in my opinion, your gonna pay 600$ for the truck then turn around and pay 100$ for a controler, when u could buy a mammoth or savage for 380-400 and put some nice upgrades on it.. Mammoth could blow the gennises away stock for stock anyways. Besides that like they already said your not gonna beable to race the gennises anyways.
05-18-2004, 02:08 PM
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RE: Genesis
I noticed that too, the truck does sit very high, and it looks really stupid when they have the body mounted up even higher. I still want one but I may be leaning towards the LST, I really need to see a Genesis in action and in person. If it's as durable as they are making it out to be I may be sold.
ORIGINAL: Deandome
Looking at both those photos, one thought comes to mind...
Could they make the center of gravity a bit HIGHER???
Maybe if they add a little more arch to the chassis plates they could work it out so the motor & other components are actually ABOVE the top of the shock towers, rather than 1/2" below it.
My god, if it didn't weigh a zillion pounds, it would tip over if you blew on it funny.
Dean
Looking at both those photos, one thought comes to mind...
Could they make the center of gravity a bit HIGHER???
Maybe if they add a little more arch to the chassis plates they could work it out so the motor & other components are actually ABOVE the top of the shock towers, rather than 1/2" below it.
My god, if it didn't weigh a zillion pounds, it would tip over if you blew on it funny.
Dean
05-18-2004, 02:09 PM
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RE: Genesis
o shut up and stop trying to take sides. I started this thread to get opinions to help me decide which truck i should get and maybe fight for the genesis a little bit. O and by the way, You don't know how to spell GENESISand BE ABLE is 2 words. LMAO![sm=lol.gif]
05-18-2004, 02:12 PM
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05-18-2004, 02:16 PM
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RE: Genesis
I don't care if i spelt a word wrong, i type 110 words pir minute.. Your fingures can hit the wrong buttons big deal.. Now grow up little boy.. Also quit spamming the forums, you have like 10 topics started about the exact same thing.
Wait, im gonna act immature like you and correct your errors.
- O should be spelt Oh and should be capitalized.
- Your sapose to use capitals at the start of every sentence.
- You need a space between GENESISand
Wait, im gonna act immature like you and correct your errors.
- O should be spelt Oh and should be capitalized.
- Your sapose to use capitals at the start of every sentence.
- You need a space between GENESISand
05-18-2004, 02:16 PM
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: Duff_Beer_12oz
I didn't get one thing you just said. Speak english. Where did you get all that scientific crap about production sales or something? If someone has a problem with their genesis radio then can't they replace it with a differn't companie's? Mr. Dale needs to stop gribbling. Besides if the fact that bad radios is the only thing you can come up with against CEN then you need to do some more research and find something good. Another thing is that the shocks can be upgraded to some metal ones. I hate it when people try to act like KNOW IT ALLS.[:@]
I didn't get one thing you just said. Speak english. Where did you get all that scientific crap about production sales or something? If someone has a problem with their genesis radio then can't they replace it with a differn't companie's? Mr. Dale needs to stop gribbling. Besides if the fact that bad radios is the only thing you can come up with against CEN then you need to do some more research and find something good. Another thing is that the shocks can be upgraded to some metal ones. I hate it when people try to act like KNOW IT ALLS.[:@]
We all have seen how CEN kept/keeps delaying this truck & kept changing engines & specs as it kept getting heavier during development.
CEN is a second or third tier company. They will never be Losi, Traxxas, HPI, OFNA or Associated. They will never have great aftermarket support. This truck will NEVER be good on the track (if it's even ALLOWED on the track!), and it's bashing durability is certainly not guaranteed, as others have correctly pointed out that a SEVENTEEN POUND truck going 30-50 mph is gonna snap plastic parts like toothpicks.
The tranny is cool, but every other feature is not unique as much as it's NECESSITATED by the fact it weighs so much (big engine, 4 brake discs, fat/heavy CVDs, etc.). And all you CENheads, stop throwing around "5 hp" like it's a fact!! CENs site sez "UP TO 5 hp" (??!???), and it sez nothing about RPMs, and I'm guessing they're way low, like the plane/helo engine it is. Wait till it's out & someone dynos it before you start saying 5 hp & calculating power/weight ratios!!
The LST (with a $230 radio, BTW, not $300) is truly new in every aspect, it comes from a top-tier company and it, like every other Losi vehicle, will enjoy HUGE support.
So please don't ask questions if you aren't prepared to listen to the answers, especially from people who have been in the hobby & this forum for a LOT longer than you!!
Dean
05-18-2004, 02:19 PM
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RE: Genesis
LOOK CLOSER, the truck in front has the 9th and 10th shock on it, the one in the air has 8 shocks, I think without the other two shocks it does not look top heavy.
05-18-2004, 02:24 PM
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: motorpsycho502
LOOK CLOSER, the truck in front has the 9th and 10th shock on it, the one in the air has 8 shocks, I think without the other two shocks it does not look top heavy.
LOOK CLOSER, the truck in front has the 9th and 10th shock on it, the one in the air has 8 shocks, I think without the other two shocks it does not look top heavy.
Yeah, they look high in the "running" photos, but I was basing my opinion on the static photos that shows the innards. The engine, Rx box, etc. are mounted like halfway up the tower, and the arched body seems to push it up even more. Add in massively tall wheels & tires and all I can say is
TIMBERRRRRRR!!!!!
05-18-2004, 02:27 PM
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: Deandome
And all you CENheads, stop throwing around "5 hp" like it's a fact!! CENs site sez "UP TO 5 hp" (??!???), and it sez nothing about RPMs, and I'm guessing they're way low, like the plane/helo engine it is. Wait till it's out & someone dynos it before you start saying 5 hp & calculating power/weight ratios!!
Dean
And all you CENheads, stop throwing around "5 hp" like it's a fact!! CENs site sez "UP TO 5 hp" (??!???), and it sez nothing about RPMs, and I'm guessing they're way low, like the plane/helo engine it is. Wait till it's out & someone dynos it before you start saying 5 hp & calculating power/weight ratios!!
Dean
CEN Genesis is widely believed to be 17 lbs and the new .46 engine is claimed to produce 5 HP so:
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
05-18-2004, 02:30 PM
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RE: Genesis
Ok the moment some of you have been waiting for. I've made up my mind and have decided that the LST is the best truck you can buy and that i am now going to buy. You may all be wondering how I came to this conclusion. First, i have to apologise to Mike Judge(Dale Gribble). Anyway what i was saying was that because dale is right (that not many stores will be supporting the genesis) i made this decision. The LST will probably be a more reliable truck and have tons of upgrades available at HS. CASE CLOSED.
05-18-2004, 03:18 PM
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RE: Genesis
STRIKE 1
You are never gonna see a Genesis on the track... Maybe some outlaw classes, but I even doubt that. It is a production truck that will never be allowed to run in production MT classes; It's competition IF allowed will be truggies and conversions in outlaw classes, and those will WAX it since they are just purebred racers with big power plants (and still weigh 7-8 lbs to boot).
You are never gonna see a Genesis on the track... Maybe some outlaw classes, but I even doubt that. It is a production truck that will never be allowed to run in production MT classes; It's competition IF allowed will be truggies and conversions in outlaw classes, and those will WAX it since they are just purebred racers with big power plants (and still weigh 7-8 lbs to boot).
Well I think its safe to say CEN did not have "track truck" in mind when they built the Genesis.... I figured that one would be a gimmee.
STRIKE 2
CEN has a bad rep for their old AM radios... I understand they keep things in house to save $$$, but c'mon- just partner with Futaba, Airtronics like everyone else and get a decent quality and reliable radio. No one would say the CEN radio set has been successful- or could they. Those CEN radios have probably been the most glitchy and unreliable of all of the RTR's on the market today.
CEN has a bad rep for their old AM radios... I understand they keep things in house to save $$$, but c'mon- just partner with Futaba, Airtronics like everyone else and get a decent quality and reliable radio. No one would say the CEN radio set has been successful- or could they. Those CEN radios have probably been the most glitchy and unreliable of all of the RTR's on the market today.
Well I agree, a working controller would be great. When it comes down to it they either work or they don't.
STRIKE 3
This is a combination of items that when combined equal a BIG strike
A- No LHS support, even here in SOCAL! I have 10 LHS's within a 30 mile radius and NOT ONE is vowing an ounce of support for this truck.
B- HIGH PRICE POINT.
Summary- This means your entry enthusiasts will NOT buy it due to low product awareness and cost. It will have a VERY narrow demographic- 95% of the demographic will be existing enthusiasts willing to accept the high price point and online only parts support and that ISN'T the demographic for profit!
It is a novelty, like the truckzilla. I predict a slurry of initial sales with quick turnarounds on ebay and ultimately for these to be shelved in folks closets and garages for display only next to their Truckzillas, and Thunder Tiger EK4s. Mark my words.
This is a combination of items that when combined equal a BIG strike
A- No LHS support, even here in SOCAL! I have 10 LHS's within a 30 mile radius and NOT ONE is vowing an ounce of support for this truck.
B- HIGH PRICE POINT.
Summary- This means your entry enthusiasts will NOT buy it due to low product awareness and cost. It will have a VERY narrow demographic- 95% of the demographic will be existing enthusiasts willing to accept the high price point and online only parts support and that ISN'T the demographic for profit!
It is a novelty, like the truckzilla. I predict a slurry of initial sales with quick turnarounds on ebay and ultimately for these to be shelved in folks closets and garages for display only next to their Truckzillas, and Thunder Tiger EK4s. Mark my words.
I have always been "out of pocket" for any LHS. The only LHS I have is Hobbytown which is 35 miles away and I only buy fuel there. Its T-maxx heaven there but VERY little for my Savage. As far as shops "supporting" the Genesis why should they if they don't offer CEN? I bet bashers out number racers at least 20 to 1 which will help the Gen. if its a hit. The novelty aspect really falls for all MT's. and as far as demographics goes this truck was hardly meant as an entry level truck and worrying about exposure or sales in short I think everyone agrees this truck is causing much more anticipation than the rest of the trucks by far. Saying this truck has a high price I don't understand....530.00 w/free shipping ...you get a high revving .46, resi. shocks, thick TVP chassis, 3 speed tranny...this is more hardware offered than anyone has offered in the past. Do you want it to be priced the same as a dated Savage or T-maxx?
05-18-2004, 03:32 PM
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: Nitro10
Saying this truck has a high price I don't understand....530.00 w/free shipping ...you get a high revving .46, resi. shocks, thick TVP chassis, 3 speed tranny...this is more hardware offered than anyone has offered in the past. Do you want it to be priced the same as a dated Savage or T-maxx. What gives?
Saying this truck has a high price I don't understand....530.00 w/free shipping ...you get a high revving .46, resi. shocks, thick TVP chassis, 3 speed tranny...this is more hardware offered than anyone has offered in the past. Do you want it to be priced the same as a dated Savage or T-maxx. What gives?
And with the LST, when you figure in that you are getting a JR XS-3 Synthisized radio that LOTS of people have bought to replace their crappy (but apparantly still a lot better than CEN's) stock radios, I think it's a no brainer.
But of course, everyone who disagrees with me clearly has no brain, so maybe it's a tough call for some of you
05-18-2004, 03:44 PM
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RE: Genesis
Deandombs quote:
Uhh..isnt the Genesis a clean slate truck? The Savage and T-maxx were brought up for a reason, re-read my post. I would never buy a truck on account of what radio came with it...the radios either work or the dont its that simple. Save your brain comments for your school mates your only going to get the thread locked or deleted.
That's about $60-70 more than the LST and/or the Revo, both of which are completely "clean slate" trucks, and the Savage & Maxx were NOT part of this thread's comparisons.
And with the LST, when you figure in that you are getting a JR XS-3 Synthisized radio that LOTS of people have bought to replace their crappy (but apparantly still a lot better than CEN's) stock radios, I think it's a no brainer.
But of course, everyone who disagrees with me clearly has no brain, so maybe it's a tough call for some of you
And with the LST, when you figure in that you are getting a JR XS-3 Synthisized radio that LOTS of people have bought to replace their crappy (but apparantly still a lot better than CEN's) stock radios, I think it's a no brainer.
But of course, everyone who disagrees with me clearly has no brain, so maybe it's a tough call for some of you
Uhh..isnt the Genesis a clean slate truck? The Savage and T-maxx were brought up for a reason, re-read my post. I would never buy a truck on account of what radio came with it...the radios either work or the dont its that simple. Save your brain comments for your school mates your only going to get the thread locked or deleted.
05-18-2004, 03:53 PM
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: Deandome
That's about $60-70 more than the LST and/or the Revo, both of which are completely "clean slate" trucks, and the Savage & Maxx were NOT part of this thread's comparisons.
That's about $60-70 more than the LST and/or the Revo, both of which are completely "clean slate" trucks, and the Savage & Maxx were NOT part of this thread's comparisons.
05-18-2004, 04:14 PM
#44
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: Nitro10
Uhh..isnt the Genesis a clean slate truck? The Savage and T-maxx were brought up for a reason, re-read my post. I would never buy a truck on account of what radio came with it...the radios either work or the dont its that simple. Save your brain comments for your school mates your only going to get the thread locked or deleted.
Uhh..isnt the Genesis a clean slate truck? The Savage and T-maxx were brought up for a reason, re-read my post. I would never buy a truck on account of what radio came with it...the radios either work or the dont its that simple. Save your brain comments for your school mates your only going to get the thread locked or deleted.
Uhh....NO, it's plain as day (as others have mentioned) that the Genesis CLEARLY copied many/most of the Savage design elements (chassis), and the suspension is straight off the T-Maxx, ignoring the relatively silly top/horizontal shocks that seem to do nothing other than look cool/different (and add weight). Where Losi, Traxxas & UE have stepped back & said "gee, maybe 4 big shocks are better than 8 small ones", CEN took the much more predictable "they have eight, let's do TEN" approach. And NOBODY has really explained what the top shocks bring to the table....care to take a stab?
The LST (and Revo, but it's not in this mix) has too many TRULY unique & well-engineered features to mention: a freakishly original, super-stiff chassis, 2 steering servos, an amazing '6 spd' tranny (2 high + 2 low forward AND 2 rev.), groundbreaking monster shocks, thick/strengthened a-arm design, the fancy radio......
And I'm 41 yo, and only a complete idiot woud read a line like "But of course, everyone who disagrees with me clearly has no brain, so maybe it's a tough call for some of you" and take it as anything other than a SELF-DEPRECATING joke (go get a dictionary). Funny, though, that you didn't quote the 3 smiles I posted to make the joke extra clear. You obviously understood them, but chose to eliminate them to give your slam a vague hint of legitimacy.
05-18-2004, 04:17 PM
#45
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RE: Genesis
ORIGINAL: slago
I ordered the LST from my LHS and I paid $599. I have seen it at some websites for $569 but I have never seen it at 60-70 less than what the Genesis is supposed to cost. Are you sure about that?
I ordered the LST from my LHS and I paid $599. I have seen it at some websites for $569 but I have never seen it at 60-70 less than what the Genesis is supposed to cost. Are you sure about that?
My bad, I was thinkin' Revo price.
05-18-2004, 04:37 PM
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RE: Genesis
OH MAMMOTH666 YOU SPEAK SO MUCH C R A P!!!!!
i normally dont say stuff like that, but you are realy getting on my nerves
first of all lets all give him a round of applause everyone he can type 110 words per minute
i think YOU should grow up and not post if you have nothing constructive to say
i don't understand how you could not understand his post, it was very informative, this is the post you said that^^^ to:
i normally dont say stuff like that, but you are realy getting on my nerves
I don't care if i spelt a word wrong, i type 110 words pir minute.. Your fingures can hit the wrong buttons big deal.. Now grow up little boy.. Also quit spamming the forums, you have like 10 topics started about the exact same thing.
Wait, im gonna act immature like you and correct your errors.
- O should be spelt Oh and should be capitalized.
- Your sapose to use capitals at the start of every sentence.
- You need a space between GENESISand
Wait, im gonna act immature like you and correct your errors.
- O should be spelt Oh and should be capitalized.
- Your sapose to use capitals at the start of every sentence.
- You need a space between GENESISand
i think YOU should grow up and not post if you have nothing constructive to say
Duff_Beer_12oz you shouldnt be talking, I can barly understand anything you say.. You sound like a 10 year old.
Genisses sucks in my opinion, your gonna pay 600$ for the truck then turn around and pay 100$ for a controler, when u could buy a mammoth or savage for 380-400 and put some nice upgrades on it.. Mammoth could blow the gennises away stock for stock anyways. Besides that like they already said your not gonna beable to race the gennises anyways.
Genisses sucks in my opinion, your gonna pay 600$ for the truck then turn around and pay 100$ for a controler, when u could buy a mammoth or savage for 380-400 and put some nice upgrades on it.. Mammoth could blow the gennises away stock for stock anyways. Besides that like they already said your not gonna beable to race the gennises anyways.
Power to Weight ratios are calculated with the formula "weight / HP" and is expressed as "10 to 1"
For the LST, I have read that the weight is 13 lbs and the Mach .26 engine is rated at 2.75 HP so:
LST = 4.73 to 1
Savage is about 11.5 lbs in stock form and Nitro Star 25 engine is rated at 2.5 HP so:
Savage = 4.6 to 1
CEN Genesis is widely believed to be 17 lbs and the new .46 engine is claimed to produce 5 HP so:
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
Traxxas REVO weighs 9.4 lbs and the 2.5R engine is rated at 1.3 HP (I think but please post correct HP if you know differently), so:
REVO = 7.231 to 1
REMEMBER! Like in Golf, the lower number is better. That means you are pusgin less weight with each HP. So according to Power to Weight ratios alone then the Genesis wins hands down. But, P/W ratios aren't everything though. Gearing and suspension efficiency and torque have a lot to do with things too.
I got this from another board at RCU. Here we see the Genesis is still better and probably will be a good racer.
For the LST, I have read that the weight is 13 lbs and the Mach .26 engine is rated at 2.75 HP so:
LST = 4.73 to 1
Savage is about 11.5 lbs in stock form and Nitro Star 25 engine is rated at 2.5 HP so:
Savage = 4.6 to 1
CEN Genesis is widely believed to be 17 lbs and the new .46 engine is claimed to produce 5 HP so:
Genesis = 3.4 to 1
Traxxas REVO weighs 9.4 lbs and the 2.5R engine is rated at 1.3 HP (I think but please post correct HP if you know differently), so:
REVO = 7.231 to 1
REMEMBER! Like in Golf, the lower number is better. That means you are pusgin less weight with each HP. So according to Power to Weight ratios alone then the Genesis wins hands down. But, P/W ratios aren't everything though. Gearing and suspension efficiency and torque have a lot to do with things too.
I got this from another board at RCU. Here we see the Genesis is still better and probably will be a good racer.
05-18-2004, 04:50 PM
#47
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RE: Genesis
LOL, i couldn't resist posting this one nitrobashinauz, you just told him "YOU should grow up and not post if you have nothing constructive to say"
Well is what your saying anymore constructive then what he said?? He only did the same thing as your doing right now.
Well is what your saying anymore constructive then what he said?? He only did the same thing as your doing right now.
05-18-2004, 04:54 PM
#48
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RE: Genesis
.46 engine, 17lbs, 10 shocks..im beginning to think they really just make it look, sound all good, but its to heavy and slow to perfom well...get a LST
05-18-2004, 05:53 PM
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RE: Genesis
I'm not necessarily looking for a truck with aftermarket support, I'd much rather get a truck that has all I need out of the box at this point, and both the LST And Genesis both seem to be that, Losi probably has boxes of upgrades ready to be shipped as we speak which is both good and bad. I do love wrenching and upgrading, but if the Genesis is as bad ass as it seems to be I'm hoping that it won't need any upgrades. I'm still not swayed either way LST or Genesis, I'll have one of em. I'm not in a hurry. I'll wait til August if I have to just to see what the founded criticism will be like, from people who actually have the trucks.