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Toe in, toe out or neither ?

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Old 04-02-2006, 06:51 AM
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netdudeuk
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Default Toe in, toe out or neither ?

My 10th scale 4WD nitro truck has always had a bit of a wheel alignment 'issue'. The front wheels tend to be splayed out towards the front. I know that this is easy to adjust but the LHS guy said that it's not an issue. Does anyone care to suggest what's best for the front wheels ? Tighter cornering at speed would be nice

Also, the truck has always exhibited something that doesn't seem quite right. If I apply full(ish) left or full(ish) right, the wheels never end up back where they were to start with - ie. neutral. I don't see any obvious slack in the steering. Does this sound familiar ?

Thanks
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:25 AM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

The most standard setup for MT's is a slight amount of toe-out at the front and toe-in at the rear. Increasing toe-in at the front should give more on throttle steering, although it may make the truck slightly harder to drive.

The steering is not an issue - when the wheels are rotating they will easily find their centre (i.e will face directly forward). It is just that when stationary the servo has insufficient torque to move them exactly to the correct point. My MT-A4 truck does this, although it is running a servo with a decent amount of torque.
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Old 04-02-2006, 10:49 AM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?


ORIGINAL: snowbl!nd

The most standard setup for MT's is a slight amount of toe-out at the front and toe-in at the rear. Increasing toe-in at the front should give more on throttle steering, although it may make the truck slightly harder to drive.

The steering is not an issue - when the wheels are rotating they will easily find their centre (i.e will face directly forward). It is just that when stationary the servo has insufficient torque to move them exactly to the correct point. My MT-A4 truck does this, although it is running a servo with a decent amount of torque.
Isn't the opposite? Toe-in makes the steering not as responsive, and toe-out gives more steering on-throttle?
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:09 AM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

Absolutely. I think that is what he meant too since he said:
standard setup for MT's is a slight amount of toe-out at the front and toe-in at the rear
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:20 AM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

I would think that increased toe-in at the front would give more on-power steering as the outside wheel going around a corner would be turned inwards more - and therefore give more "bite" to get the truck around the corner. But that's just how i see it... i could very well be completely wrong.
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Old 04-02-2006, 11:42 AM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

I thought toe-in caused it to track better; toe-out can cause a tire to get highlined on a crest or a rut, and pull it off course. same thing happens for real cars, toe out and you'll find it pulling when you hit the center crest of the road; or a repavement project, changing lanes, ect.

Ive never heard a benefit to toe out. but I dont know that much about offroading, so maybe it does somehow increase onpower steering.
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Old 04-02-2006, 03:10 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

When the wheel on one side of the car hits a bump or rut, that wheel is pulled rearward about its steering axis. This action also pulls the other wheel in the same steering direction. If it's a minor disturbance, the wheel will steer only a small amount, perhaps so that it's rolling straight ahead instead of toed-in slightly. But note that with this slight steering input, the rolling paths of the wheels still don't describe a turn. The wheels have absorbed the irregularity without significantly changing the direction of the vehicle. In this way, toe-in enhances straight-line stability.

If the truck is set up with toe-out, however, the front wheels are aligned so that slight disturbances cause the wheel pair to assume rolling directions that do describe a turn. Any small steering angle beyond the perfectly centered position will cause the inner wheel to steer in a tighter turn radius than the outer wheel. Thus, the car will always be trying to enter a turn, rather than maintaining a straight line of travel.

That means that toe-out will help in a turn. Toe in will help keep a strait line. This is why our trucks come set up the way they are. Toe out in front to help turn, toe in in back to help keep a straight line.

Does that make sense?
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Old 04-02-2006, 03:19 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

So how does positive and negative camber help?
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Old 04-02-2006, 04:30 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

Im sure the 2 do operate together to a point. positive camber is never beneficial(should say never... but I know of no good time for it)

when you corner though, it is inevitable that the body will roll; so will the tire. thus when your cornering the tires tend to roll to the outside and thus thats when you get your full contact patch on the ground, when you most need it.

on the flip side, in a straight line your riding on the edges to some degree, not so great. I think thats why most will set more negative camber to the front; less in the back since the front do alot of turning and the back do alot of pushing.
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Old 04-02-2006, 05:57 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

Just so. Neg camber is used to reduce the effect that body roll has on the way the tire sits during cornering. You want some so the tire sits somewhat flatter during cornering, but not so much that you are just riding the edges on a straight. I have all 4 wheels at about the same neg camber.
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Old 04-02-2006, 07:39 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

What negative camber?

Edit:

Excuse me. I meant what negative camber do you run. I know what it is, and how it looks
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Old 04-02-2006, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: Toe in, toe out or neither ?

wheels angle inward as they rise up. / \
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