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  1. #1

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    The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    OK, well, after sitting in my room looking pretty all winter, the LST2 finally saw some fuel today. I've been planning for a while now to do a fairly thorough run-down of how the Savage X SS and the LST2 compare - NOT around a race track, but for an ordinary, not all that experienced basher looking to do some backyard bashing, jumping, etc.. My Savage X SS with Chronic front-extended TVP's and Axial 28 I broke in about a month ago. So far it's got about 1/2 gallon through it I would guess.. Today, after RE-locktiting everything cuz of being paranoid based on what one reads in LST forums, I finally took it out. Unfortunately I was on my own so could only set the vid camera stationary for some boring back and forth passes. Don't know though - gonna upload it and see what kind of impression it gives..

    So, to start: my impression of the X SS. First off, the Axial has been a DREAM. Starts SSSOOO easy, and seems to tune itself. It's borderline overgeared at 18/47, but pulls wheelies at will, and has a nice screaming top-speed. This is no racing truck, but compared to say a stock Savage 25 or Lighting GT(my other two trucks thus far..) it RIPS - big-time... I don't care what some engine guru says what - the Axial 28 is a DREAM of an engine for Joe Basher, not only cuz of the ease of use, but because it IS a powerhouse compared to most stock engines. I've been running wide Ofna offset dish rims on Dirt Bonz, and though it helps allay some of the Savage's infamous tippiness, so far I haven't managed to find the right set-up for jumping. Basically, and totally unusually for a Savage, right now it sucks in the air. I think I need some 40 series wheels and tires, and maybe to do the "shock mod" Chronic has told me about. I also have a bit of rear-wheel wobble from a worn out turnbuckle - and this too is %100 attributable to bad, awkward landings with the offset rims.. Nevertheless, I'm a Savage guy at heart, so I should just admit right here that to a certain extent the LST2 is facing somewhat of an uphill comparsison. Just want to be honest..

    I just LOVE how easy the Axial is to use. And despite some people saying it's just a K4.6, I think it rips. And not just a little bit.. Anyway, I HAVE had a few issues with the Savage so far, but I really do attribute this to running wide offset rims, which I was warned would transfer stress to other parts. So far I have broken an upper front arm, but no big deal - I replaced it with a non-ajustable that came with the kit. I also sort of screwed up a turnbuckle. BTW, in case anybody wonders, building it was a total piece of cake..

    The MAIN criticism you always hear about Savages is that they handle terribly. This is true, KIND OF.. I prefer to think of it though as CHALLENGING.. It's fun IMO to learn how your truck moves, and learn how to make it do it the best way you can.. So yeah, somebody totally new to a Sav might flip it over more than with other trucks.. But I enjoy the extra concentration required to keep it under control..

    Anyway, enough about the Sav for now. Let's turn to the LST2.

    First off, this truck makes a very, very good impression out of the box. It's HUGE, and heavy. So far I have the following upgrades:

    1.) RC Raven dual rate springs
    2.) RPM engine head guard
    3.) wing kit(mostly just for wheelies..)
    4.) New Era roll-bar(makes accessing the radio box and LSN a PIA, but makes a very convenient handle.. Also kind of a pain that it limits you to what bods you can use. I got it cuz I envisioned big jumps at skate parks..)

    Next point, based on reading around in various forums, I found out that you basically have to locktite the entire truck before running it - including - and especially, the wheels. This I did. Also all the set-screws from the diffs and tranny. Has held up well so far..

    So, anyway, getting it started today was a medium PIA(but then I AM spoiled from the Axial I think..) Cuz I've been running the Axial in the Sav, I just assumed I'd HAVE TO loosen the glow-plug(I STILL HAVE TO with the Axial..), but this proved to be a royal PIA. Fuel shot in my eye a couple times actually - and no I didn't over-loosen it.. Just broke the tightness really.. I gave up trying to loosen it after about three tries..

    Today I probably got about five tanks through, but a good 12-15 heat cycles. It took 5+ hours... It was puking oil(running %25 Sidwinder in everything..), and took a while to hit 200, but wasn't THAT smoky, and didn't sound all that rich. I messed with the needles several times, but as I'm not the most experienced tuner, I never seemed to get the right tune. That is til the last two tanks when I just left it at factory settings of 4 for the HSN and 2 for the LSN. It was puking oil all day, but not a whole lot of smoke. Highest temp I saw was 240 towards the end, but I was getting on it a bit..

    At one point I also had to fiddle with the header, which wasn't really seated onto the engine right. Had to mess with the header spring to get a better, tighter fit.

    Anyway, the needles were kind of all over the place today - I'm not the greatest tuner yet, but it was constantly spitting out tons of oil, and temps were reasonable, so I hope I'm safe.. I also did the spit test as a back-up. Never any sizzle..

    Once I got a few tanks through(three tanks probably meant 10+ heat cyles with the piston cooling at BDC..) and got into the throttle a bit, with the needles set half-way right, I must say, the LST2 MOVES.. It must really be a rocket with a good tune.. It handles brilliantly too of course. On the last tank I got a few wheelies. I did take it onto a gravelly field, and there it was a lot of fun. I was driving back and forth and shooting gravel everywhere. This truck is not a lot of fun IMO on concrete - unlike the Sav for ex(fun everywhere.. - it just is..) Not sure why.. But it IS a lot of fun once you get into some terrain. Was having a blast wheeling around in big ovals shooting gravel everywhere.. I can see why this is a good race-truck.. Just feels RIGHT offroad..

    So anyway, that's all for now really. I have some video of back and forth from both trucks today - nothing spectacular, but maybe it can give a very basic impression of the comparison. I HOPE to do some more bashing in the next weeks, and see what happens then. Hopefully my girlfriend will cooperate and shoot some vid..

    So that's all for now. Pics and vids to come...

    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  2. #2

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Charging up for the big day..:



    Talking trash to each other while I get the car:



    Cramped..:



    Everybody else seems to start their LST2's on a block for some reason..:

    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  3. #3

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    You like it a little more now that you've driven it, huh? The LST2 isn't perfect by any means, but once you drop it on the ground and pull the trigger you tend to forget about it's shortcomings.

    This is a nice review so far, I'm looking forward to reading the updates.
    Maker of \"Chronic\'s TVPs\" and custom RC parts

  4. #4

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    After giving it some thought, this is what occurs to me: the LST2 seems like a lot of fun to just "bash" around offroad at WOT.. Dirt, gravel, grass, etc.. Here you can really feel (and see - the LST2 looks good in motion..) the significantly better handling..(too early to really say anything definitive about the LST2 though.. Need some more time with it..) The X SS - at least as currently set up - is more for straight line blasts - and jumps(once I find a wide enough ramp..) The LST2 should JUMP very well - the question is(THE question..), how well will it survive the LANDINGS???...

    We'll see I guess...
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  5. #5

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Here's part 1 of the vid footage I got today. NOT the most exciting stuff - but best I could do..

    http://s166.photobucket.com/albums/u...reakInDay1.flv
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  6. #6

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    i agree with my savage SS the handling was dodgy, would flip like crazy, but since i put LST shocks on it i cant think of a time it fliped going around a corner it absorbs every bump with the LST shocks.

    so the moral of the story: have the best of both worlds an put LST shocks on the savage =)
    GOD CREATED CRAP, TRAXXAS PUT WHEELS ON IT.
    GO HARD OR GO HOME
    COMING SECOND IS BEING THE FIRST LOSER

  7. #7

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  8. #8

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    so what do you think so far? I saw one run at the hobby shop and could not get over how fast it is. how hot are you going to run it?

  9. #9

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Well it's hard to say at this point. To be honest my first impression yesterdy was how fast the Savage is.. People say the Axial has no top end, but maybe I just have it geared right.. It seems to have a big powerband in the middle to top with this gearing, and really does fly.. Need to get some good footage.. The LST2's not broken in yet, but so far it looks like at best it'll be AS fast on the top end as the Sav, but not faster(It IS kinda' hard to judge relative speed though, cuz the LST2, with those enormous wheels and tires, is so much bigger...) I do think it'll accelerate better though. And handling, around a track etc... is a no-brainer. Here I should point out that my Sav isn't yet set-up the way I want. I don't mean a bunch of expensive tuning or modding or fiddling, but just a few basic things to maybe make it sit lower, possible different shock oil, and most of all different rims and wheels, so it's even MORE unfair for the Sav in the handling dept than usual.. The Sav needs an easy trigger finger from a standstill to not flip over, then, after about 15 feet, you can really gun it and then it just RIPS... I love the sound and the aggressive top end.. I'm still running a stock HPI radio, so I'm never really comfortable to open it up too much for too long, cuz it's basically faster than my trust in the radio is big. If you know what I mean..

    With the LST2 it was kind of hard to get a tune yesterday. Could've sworn that after making some adjustments the needles were moving themselves.. Anyway, in the vids it's running factory settings - at one point I put my hand under the exhaust to make sure it spitting out lots of oil, which it was. But somehow it just didn't seem overly rich like I would expect with a new engine. There wasn't a WHOLE lot of smoke, which had me a tad concerned..

    BUT, on the few occasions when it felt like having a good tune, and when I got on it a bit, it absolutely flew.. I was trying to get wheelies a few times, and it was just spinning out. Never had an MT do that.. And a few other times, after it started shifting(maybe tank 3 or 4) well with a nice tune on the high end, it gave a glimpse I guess of what it's capable of - which was impessive.

    But as I said before, most of the day was totally boring driving at 1/2 throttle back and forth, letting it cool down, etc.. And a bit of a PIA trying to mess with needles(no such stress with the Axial...) But when I went accross the street to this grass and gravelly field, and just ripped it around in big ovals, back and forth, or figure 8's, THAT was a lot of fun.. It's a big powerful thing that handles great offroad, and looks SSSOOO good doing it.

    I'm still not totally comfortable with it though, still not sure that it was worth the money for me, given my particular situation, what I want to do with it, etc.. - though yes, it's totally clear that it's a top notch truck, I'm not sure yet it's the basher I'm looking for. That's gonna take a bit. So far the signs are good though I would say..
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  10. #10

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Is it bad to run a battery pack directly into the receiver, bypassing the on-off switch?? I had to yesterday cuz my Ofna 1600 pack has a different plug.. Only difference I noticed is that the truck is on when the radio's on. Kinda' nice actually. But is it OK??
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  11. #11
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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    it should be, i mean your still getting the same ammount of voltage through the reciever. The on off switch only does what it sais, connects the flow/ and disconects it
    8ightT:Go21, MBX5R:RBC6, FT NTC3:RBC12, 8000kv RC18T, MGT:M427, F103, NEVST, FASST 2.4, Spek 2.4

  12. #12
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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Its fine to not use the switch. Just remember to unplug it at the end of the day
    Outrunner Powered Xray XB8TQ - Custom Sand Rail - Team Losi Micro Baja - Custom Crawler

  13. #13

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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    I'm pretty positive though that the juice from the bat is only "on" when the radio is. So switching it off shouldn't matter - only the radio...

    Does that sound right??
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  14. #14
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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS


    ORIGINAL: PatrickBW

    I'm pretty positive though that the juice from the bat is only "on" when the radio is. So switching it off shouldn't matter - only the radio...

    Does that sound right??

    no its always on, once the batt is pluged in directly the radio stays on untill its dissconected. when you turn on your radio that is when the reciever see's a "signal" and reacts acordingly. personally (this is just me), the reason i liked the lst2 over the savage 25 rtr is there was less setup time spent getting it ready to run and i thought that the m427 was a dream to tune compared to the 25.
    the temps you were getting in the video was that celcius or farenheight. because for breakin 150f is kind of low, i would try to get it in the 200f range.
    ka-chow
    lst2, there is no substitute lst forums, ground pounders rc

  15. #15
    2DMaxLST!!'s Avatar
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    RE: The Showdown Can Now Begin: LST2 vs. Savage X SS


    ORIGINAL: PatrickBW

    I'm pretty positive though that the juice from the bat is only "on" when the radio is. So switching it off shouldn't matter - only the radio...

    Does that sound right??

    If you left the battery plugged into the receiver over night and you run today you will have a run away.
    Tangled up in Blue.

  16. #16

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    OK, no bats left in over night(didn't anyway..)

    Temps were Fahrenheit - wasn't all that easy to get above 200. Was making some very iffy sounds too... Of the 12-15 heat cycles I got on it, I'd say half-ish were 200 or higher..

    As for the Mach, it's too early to tell. The first five tanks though were not nearly as easy as the Axial.. It definitely doesn't seem as tight. For ex, rotating the flywheel to find my BDC scratch is dead easy.. With the Axial it's still kind of tight. Same with the glow-plug. ZERO chance of starting the Axial without loosening the GP. With the Mach, as I said, it was a major PIA - for whatever reason..

    One thing I forgot to mention though is that, after the first 2-3 times, the Mach did start after like one blast of the roto-start thingy - like really, one second..
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  17. #17

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    keep us up to date on the LST2, I think it will be my next truck in about six months. When I saw this thing take off I was like [X(]. This truck did not wheelie just took off like a rocket.

  18. #18

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    It WAS just spinning out at times...
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  19. #19

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    put some slicks on it.

  20. #20

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    If - IF(this being Germany, yes that's a big "if"...) the weather cooperates, I hope to get the LST2 some ramp time on the weekend....


    Moooohhhhaaaaahhahahahahah.....
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  21. #21

    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Wait how did you get the screw out.. LOL

  22. #22

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Ha ha, very funny.. I assume you're referring to the one I stripped while switching out the engine brace.. Yes, when that happened I was rather ticked. That was largely because I had heard everywhere how easy it is to work on an LST2..

    So I'm glad you brought that up, cuz that's something I forgot to mention.

    In my honest opinion, the Savage X SS is easier to work on. Part of this has to do with the New Era roll-bar on the LST2, which makes accessing the radio box, LSN, and most anything rather difficult. On top of that, the LST2 has notoriously strip-happy screws, and you have to locktite the entire truck. You have to unscrew the gear cover to adjust the slipper, I haven't yet figured out why the diffs are referred to as "easy access", as it looks like you have to take a bunch of stuff apart to get at them(could be wrong here..)

    Anyway, I would like to clear up once and for all the following point: the X generation of Savages is simply NOT difficult to work on. The older Savages had a bad rep cuz you had to take the entire truck apart to get to the diffs. This is no longer the case. So that bad rep is out the window. Yes, I'm a bit used to Savages, but I've never done that much wrenching. I built the X SS kit, which was a total piece of cake BTW, and now that it's together, it's VERY easy to work on. For me at this point anyway it's easier than the LST2.

    That has a lot to do with the fact that the LST2 is still very new to me. But I also have a truggy/monster-truck Hot Bodies Lightning GT. Now THAT is easy to work on.

    For fairness' sake I think it's safe to say that the LST2 and X-generation Savage are equally easy(or difficult, depending on your point of view..) to work on.

    But to say that Savages are hard to work on is absolutely no longer the case.
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  23. #23
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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    PatrickBW there is a rubber boot on the end of the gear cover and once removed you can acsess the slipper screw, i didnt figure it out untill i took the gear cover off myself. and yes the screws going into plastic can strip i use rubber silicone so they dont move unless i remove them. i also never got the engine brace off it was loctited in there good so i left it, so far after a gallon and a few 50 or so jumps its still going strong but i have the dynamite brace as backup. i only have the "2" s25 to compare the lst2 to and the lst2 is pretty much like the savage x, easy acsess to the diffs and removing the tranny is only 8 or so screws away.by far its one of the fastest rtr out of the box, hands down.
    ka-chow
    lst2, there is no substitute lst forums, ground pounders rc

  24. #24

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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    Oh, OK. Thanks... You learn something every day..

    RE the battery-pack, should I get my girlfriend's dad to cut the plug and solder on a BEC plug - or is that not reliable??
    Nitro > stamp collecting, watching grass grow, cleaning room, etc.. > electric.

  25. #25
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    RE: The Showdown: LST2 vs. Savage X SS

    cant you cut the plug off and reconnect the one one that goes to the reciever?
    ka-chow
    lst2, there is no substitute lst forums, ground pounders rc


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