hot rod 10

oh by the way regardless of what people say.you can modify your savage to b a fine racer.

SAVAGEJIM

You probably have the older Savage 21. The reverse module will work okay on it, but on a K/F 4.6 or larger or even more powerful aftermarket engine, HPI simply did not design the reverse module to take such abuse from the massive torque these engine put out.

I ruined way too many reverse modules, I simply quit using them. Now, if HPI redesigns them to handle the K5.9, then yes, I will buy that one oand put it in my Savages.

SAVAGEJIM

Yes, thats true. MazdaB2600 has a sick modified custom racer Savage, and it will hang even with buggies in some cases. However, such custom rigs require a ton of mods to become true racers. Where on the other hand, the Revo is basically meant to be race ready out of the box. HPI did not intend the Savage to be a racer in its stock form unfortunately.

NOIC

I haven't been back to this thread in a while. I was in the process of breaking in my new Savage XL. Thanks to all for your comments, but the decision was ultimately mine and I'm only semi-sure I made the right one. A lot of you bragged up the HPI stuff and I suppose since all I wanted was a bash around truck the XL is ok. It has some nice features like the 3-speed transmission and the size. I got a pretty good price too, ($569 including shipping from Ultimate Hobbies), but I'm disappointed in the quality. Most of it is plastic. The radio is crap. I put in a Spektrum SR3001 DSM 3-Channel Pro Series Receiver right away and programmed it into my M11. You have to take the body off (or cut holes in it) to turn off the receiver so more tweaking is needed. Taking the radio box apart is a pain. They put the twisty closer underneath the air filter and the air filter is put on with a wire tie instead of a rubber O-Ring like my OS engine. With the body on you can't reach the roll bar with is a much better way to carry it since the plastic bumpers are so flimsy I'm afraid I'm going to break them. So to sum it up, yeah it's an ok toy and that's what I got it for. Maybe after changing a few things I'll like it better, but in retrospect I'm thinking I probably should have gone with the Revo Platinum. So I'll play for a while, but eventually an upgrade is probably coming. Having said that, I may be all wet and just haven't given it a chance since I've only run about 6 tanks through it. Time will tell. Either way, as usual I appreciate all your comments.

BrazosRC

I am confused here b/c I thought the LST2 was an 1/18th.... the others are 1/8th, right?

NOIC

I believe you are thinking of the Losi Mini LST2 which is 1/18th scale. Everything I read states the LS2 scale as "Monster Truck". I has 20mm wheel hexes so I assumed that was 1/8 scale stuff. Correct me if I'm wrong.

BudBud

The plastic is much stronger than you ever imagined. A lot of guys bought aluminum "upgrades" only to find that they bend and break... the upgrades that is.


I think that is kind of standard, taking the body off...

I just fold the air cleaner over to get it out of the way.

I use the wheelie bar which attaches to the back bumper and skid plate. I hang these trucks in my basement all the time by the bumpers and they never fail.

I am sorry you are disappointed with it. I was kind of leery of the cheap looking plastic at first, but after you have been around it for a while, it is amazing how tough the stuff is. Bud

(I do have six of these and am building a seventh one for my son)

NOIC

Well like I said the jury is still out. A new wrinkle...the steering servo is defective. While breaking it in I noticed the servo acting up. I plugged it into the throttle jack on the receiver and it is still the same servo acting wonky. It jitters and then moves to the full left. An email to HPI support gave a message not to expect an answer for several days. A call to them said it's better to leave a message which I did at 10:30 AM EST (they are PST). At 2PM I called and waited 10 minutes to speak to someone who was more concerned about warning me that if it got wet they wouldn't cover it. So I shipped to them an hour later. At 8PM EST someone returned the call from my message so at least they got back to me the same day. We will see. Depending on how they handle the repair will make my final impression. As for the plastic, I can believe what you're saying. Like I said I just have to get used to it. And honestly I haven't had it running long enough to really judge. Thanks for the insight though. As for the wheelie bar, I have to tune it a little more and see if I can even get it to do one before I buy the wheelie bar. It's just too soon to tell yet.

BudBud

Oh they will! This one is stock except for the body.... [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVCLxpFJmTs]Dodge Mega Cab[/link]

I bought this one from a fellow member who said it would not wheelie, I changed the pipe, but a broken Pinion was his main problem. [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmWm4_kPcn8]Red Dodge XL[/link]



If you cannot make it work for you, it is still good merchandise, there's always somebody looking for one. Bud

NitroVette

Not exactly apples to apples but I have a Savage 25 with upgraded diffs, 3 speed, Robinson gears, and the XL chassis plates and a stock Aftershock. Although I really like the Savage I think the Aftershock is a better chassis. At high speed the Savage is all over the place, I mean it doesn't even go in a straight line, it sort of wobbles side to side while pulling hard. With the Losi it is rock solid, this I'm sure is due to the fact that the Losi suspension has much less play and much better shocks. The Losi handles the rough stuff a lot better too, the suspension is plush. I would like a new XL, don't get me wrong, however I voted for the LST 2. I'll probably buy another Aftershock or possibly an LST 2 because I like the layout, it's easy to work on, and it handles more like a buggy than a monster truck. The stock motors on the Losi trucks are very good, the Aftershock always starts right up and keeps it's tune.

rcnitrohead

^^ I'll agree with that, my LCG Savage 25 can be a tough cookie on road at WOT, but then again it goes really fast... I just prepped everything for running today, and my TowerPro MG995 throttle servo took a dump on me before I could even go outside, oh well it served me well for a year and for $10 a piece, I cant complain.

Tom.

[email protected]

lst2, mgt or savage xl can't go wrong but if it was my money LST2. I own all three but my savage is a savage x .21 with a 3 spd. I will say the mgt is very easy to work on and I did the most upgrades to it. I run the mgt the most then the lst2 not so much the savage but would never sell it. The lst2 is the hole package in one box IMO.

NOIC

Ok here is the verdict. First of all
HPI sent me a new servo, no questions asked. I broke in the XL and ran a few tanks through it and just decided that it wasn't what I expected nor did it perform as advertised so I was just going to keep it a year and pedal it. Then I started doing some investigating to see if anyone else was unhappy as well. To my surprize I found that it is true...RTR really means Ready To Rebuild! So for anyone new to Savages (at least the XL which I can speak on first hand) I have listed some complaints below and the Mods I found to fix the problem. The Verdict: A. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] You just have to tweak the thing so it runs right. This could be HPI's engineers not being on the ball, or more so I think when you consider all the people that like the Savages, that HPI left these things undone to give us something to feel useful about. Here we go (and I know some of you veterans may already be aware, but it's good to rehash sometimes anyway)

1. The Roll Bar/Engine Protector thingy that they fail to give instructions for.
[sm=idea.gif] I used the extra body mount, wire tied it to the chasis, and used some body clips to position it. Works fine.

2. That silly Half Tank Lean Issue that evidently Savages have been plagued with for a few models.
[sm=idea.gif] Open the fuel tank lid, stick a short piece of antenna tube in the hole on the bottom side of the tank lid, attach a piece of fuel line over that and run it to almost the bottom of the tank. Probem fixed. (Some have said that it doesn't always work, but given the night and day difference it made for me, I have to conclude that those who say it doesn't work just didn't install it correctly)

3. The Brakes "SUCK" and the throttle is difficult to adjust to get optimum power. I could never get it to do wheelies which really made me mad. After all that's half the reason I bought it.
[sm=idea.gif] You take the throttle servo arm off, take it apart, use a Dremel tool to cut the metal ring half way down and 6-8mm long from the left side. That's it. Put it back together and it's fixed. First the brakes work great (like they are supposed to). You can almost flip it over nose first it you try. Second the throttle is now free to do what it is intended to do...make that truck scream. Now I'm doing wheelies all over the place and it's as fast as they said. And I never toucht the carb screws. Maybe some of you were able to get the performance out it you expected, but I just couldn't. This Mod is so cool, I recommend it to all Savage owners.

4. The Antenna keeps coming out of the hole in the radio box. A lot of people have complained about shearing them off.
[sm=idea.gif] Buy an antenna mount kit from a Mugen MBX5 (or 6)R. It has a little spring mount that allows the antenna to bend over sideways without breaking. You have to drill a couple holes through the chasis bar and radio box. Then get some sort of plastic mount to attach it to the frame. (I used an extra piece from another kit that I didn't need that already had a couple holes in the side and a hole in the top to mount the spring) Then I drilled a small hole through the radio box and the side frame, ran the antenna wire through it and up the antenna tube, and I used Shoo Goo to seal the hole where the wire came through the radio box and the old antenna tube hole. Now the antenna tube is mounted outside the radio box and is not an issue when you take the radio box cover on and off. The antenna is free to bounce around from side to side.

5. The truck flips over easily on turns or sideways slides.
[sm=idea.gif] Take a pair of scissors (body shears work great) and cut off one or two rows of knobbies all the way around on the outside of each tire. This allows the tires to roll on the sides a little and slide without so much grab.


Hope these Mods are helpful to anyone new or unaware. For those who already knew about them, sorry for wasting your time, but I just thought it would be good to finish this thread on a positive note and and pass on some of the things I learned.

Snaut Rocket

Should of gotten an lst2.

MadManAndrew

Savage X, but since it's not on there, I siad savage XL...

MadManAndrew

SHUT THE HECK UP! Just cuz it's plastic doesn't mean it's breakable! The plastic on the Savage's is more durable then any other truck on the market. The radio is not crap and happens to work farely well. and it's actually a 2 minute job to cut a hole out your back window so you can use the roll bar as a carrying handle. Oh, and about the on/off switch, the air filter is pretty flexible and can be rotated to turn the switch, and you can simply stick your hand under the body to turn it on and off without removing the body...So, SINCE YOU HAVN'T HAD RADIO PROBLEMS, HAVN'T BROKEN ANY PARTS AND THE REVO IS PLASTIC ALSO...JUST SHUT UP...

IL2mSturmovik

Yup, love mine![8D]

NOIC

Hey MadManAndrew, Dude chill! Did/Can you read? I gave it an "A"!
Two tin cans and a string work as a phone too, but would you buy one to add microprocessor electronics? No, you'd buy a cell phone. If you got the gist of my final verdict you would have understood that I am now a believer as well. You don't go from a Mugen to a Savage without some attitude adjustment. So MadManAndrew you Shut Up, and oh by the way just chill and read past the first page.

MadManAndrew

Sorry:Posted that before I read the rest... just was mad becuase you dissed it when there wasn't anything wrong with it...

NOIC

No problem bud. We all do that from time to time. Imagine how upset I was when I first got the truck and...it didn't run for crap, no wheelies, wouldn't start, and then the suspension fell apart (no one told me you have zip tie the bumper arms together to keep the suspension pins from falling out), then the servo quit working. Bummer. Now that I've tweaked it all over the place it's really a good truck. BTW I put an Associated Fuel Primer Pump Bulb in the fuel line and changed out the Roto-Start for a Pull Starter. Took it out today (It's 30 Degrees here) and would believe it fired up on the first pull?

SAVAGEJIM

Those are great tips! thanks for shareing those with us!

Yes, the Savage is no Mugen, afterall virtually everything on the Savage is made in the far east.

Some of the positive things HPI did to our beloved Savage is went with teh easy-access X-gear. This made getting at teh diffs 10 times easier than it used to be with the non-X Savages.

HPI also reinforced the trannycase, a gripe that many of us have had since the torques of nitro engines a easily busting 50in-oz, which is enough to warp and bend the nylon-plastic walls of teh transmission housing.

HPI also went with aluminum cup housings for the front and rear diffs. A good move to prevent waping of teh diff housings and teh spider gears losing thei mesh inside the diff cups. Too bad that HPI did not go with macined diff outer bevel gears, those still strip way too easily.

HPI also went with a machined spur gear, good move also. Again, teh massive torques of today's nitro engines destroy plastic spurs. Yes plastic spurs will last a long time with a good mesh, BUT you do have to drive on plastic spurs easier or they will strip. An engine producing 50in-oz torque can VERY easliy strip plastic spurs.

Now some of teh gripes I still have with teh Savage:

The single brake set in front of teh tranny case is not adaquate especially if you are driving at speeds that exceed 30MPH. At low speed bashing activities, teh brakes are okay I guess, but me, I am a speed demon and part of my bashing includes running high speed passes up and down teh street at full trigger and tehn stopping on a dime to turn adound again for another pass. For teh weight fo teh Savage, I really believe that HPI should have put anotehr brake set on teh rear output shafy of teh tranny too. That way, you do not have merely 2 fiber discs stopping teh RC, you have FOUR fiber discs to do the work: 2 disc on teh front output shaft, and 2 more on teh rear output shaft.

Yeah, as for the nylon plastics, I unfortunately agree with you. Ever since the first Savage X came out, the quality of the plastic dropped. The older Savage 21 and Savage 25 trucks did have better plastics that were stronger in my experence. Yes the newer plastics are lighter, but only like a gram or 2, not worth the trade off. I will gladly take suspension arms that are 2 grams heavier if they were made of the old plastic fomula. Too bad HPI does not use US vigin nylon plastics.

As for the electronic? Yes, I agree 100%, pure crap. The TF radios are SF servos are hit or miss. You might get one that is totally problem free, or you can get an absolute lemon of a radio. It is to the point that whenever I buy a Savage, I buy only teh kit without the electronics. Having a high grade radio, I will never use an RTR radio again. Futhermore, since my Futaba is multo-model memory, I can very easily slap in my own electronics.

NOIC

SAVAGEJIM, sounds like you've been into Savages for a while. I've not had the pleasure (or not) of tearing one apart yet. Yes my Mugen kit is quality and that was what made it hard to adjust to the XL, but the Mugen was quite a bit more expensive. But I had to put things in perspective, so that's why I also understand others that say I may have been a little harsh on the Savage.

On the Diffs, if you have any tips on avoiding problems with the Savage feel free to post 'em.

The brakes do need more help, but that mod I did on the throttle servo certainly gave it brakes, I mean you roll up fast and jam 'em too hard and you'll flip it over nose first. You have to be a little gentle, but what a difference. After you adjust to it you can do a whole more, now that there are real brakes. So you're right, dual brakes with the servo mod would round it off well.

I have an Airtronics M11 with Spetrum 2.4 module so that's what I did, put a Spektrum receiver in and programmed it into the M11. I saw that some RTR truck (can't remember which one) comes with a multi-model programable radio, but for my money, make it a few bucks cheaper and let me use my own electronics. I'd just as soon be happy even having to get my own servos. Again I have to keep things in perspective. Some might welcome the radio included in the box if they are trying to get in without a lot of cost. I just wonder why HPI doesn't go the route that Associated does with some of their vehicles. Like the B4 buggy. You can get it RTR or beefed up kit form without electronics.

You would also think with all the experience HPI has that they could fix that Half Tank Lean Issue. The mod I used was quick and easy, but all the other companies don't have that problem so I'm sure they could come up with a solution that's even better.

Thanks for your thoughts.

hot rod 10

I have a xl.It started as a sav 25. The first upgrade was a orion wasp .28 . The second upgrade was a 3speed trany with 3 shoe aluminum clutch.50 mph truck believe it or not.Crashed into a parked car tire(servos were weak)bent the chassis to hell.Next upgrade xl conversion kit.Blew wasp up.Next upgrade racers edge surefire .32 Next upgrade high speed 3rd gear. oversized tires
racing pipe,steel high torque servos,canned the reverse.top speed 60 mph!!Notice I didnt say anything about steel or aluminum upgrades except for the clutch.steel bumpers,arms, etc only weigh the truck down.Yeah,they look good but they take away from the performance.Run into something with a metal bumper no shock absorb.with a plastic bumper it will give,less damage.Jus thought I'd put that out there.The savage is probably the most durable and toughest rc monster truck on the scene.Very hard to total. ALL HAIL TO THE HPI SAVAGE KING OF RC MONSTER TRUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yub, yub, cmdr!

Just like to point out that ironically, the Mugen is made in the Far East as well. The Far East is no longer a factor in the quality but rather how much money HPI pays the factories and how much money HPI invests in quality checking. But it's true; HPI tends to be lower quality than the Mugen simply because they need to hit a much lower price point. Not everyone can afford a Mugen MBX...

NOIC

Hey guys I wasn't being snooty when I mentioned my MBX5R, rather I meant that not having had any other nitro's before the Mugen, I was a little spoiled and didn't have a good range of vehicles to compare the XL to. I'm still new to nitro so every new vehicle is a learning experience. That's why I revised my opinion to an "A" after I had some time to work and play with the XL. You're right, it's target market is for those that can't afford to drop $1000 down without electronics on a vehicle. Mostly the point of my last comments were to express that having learned the XL's weaknesses, it was fun finding out how to fix them. Admittedly I was hasty in my judgment at first, but like I said I hadn't had enough to compare it to. It's really a good truck and I'd recommend it to anyone that wants to have fun and still wants to be able to customize it to their preferrence.