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Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

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Old 06-14-2003, 12:24 AM
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Stingray
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Hello All....Just got a Hyper 8 port for my Savage and got it installed today. Man is that sleeve tight!! Here's the deal....the engine starts and runs fine...until I remove the glow starter. As soon as I remove the glow starter, it dies. This is a brand new Ofna glow plug. The engine will run for 5 minutes if I leave the igniter on, but as soon as I remove it....dead. Checked Ofna's break-in procedure and re-tweaked main needle to no avail. Haven't touched mid or low needles(I'm assuming that they're ok from the factory). Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-14-2003, 12:31 AM
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Avalanche
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

The 8 ports are notoriously rich on the low end from the factory and its a common problem. You need to lean the low end to get it to run and then richen it uponce its running. You may need to lean it 1/2 turn or so and them run it for about 5 minutes, slowly start richening it 1/16 at a time about 30-45 seconds apart. After the first tank or two you can lean it alittle again.
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Old 06-14-2003, 12:58 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Avalanche,
The Ofna Break-in calls for 3.5 turns OUT from flush on the low end. My low end came FLUSH from the factory, not 3.5 out. Do I turn it out the 3.5 or leave it at factory? Thanks.
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Old 06-14-2003, 01:49 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

3.5 Turns out from flush is crazy rich. All of the OFNA engines I've seen come WAY to rich to run before being broperly broken in. I just put an OFNA Force .25 in my Savage and had the same problem you are. The two manuals that came with it stated two different settings, flush and 4 turns out from closed, which was not quite flush. I would start with the low end flush, thats what the standard seems to be, so thats what I did on my Force and it worked very well. My brother has a mad force he had to do this as well. The first "idle" tank is really to seat the crank bearings and run in the conn rod bushings. The piston and sleeve dont really start ot get broken in until you start to put some heat in to the engine. I would start by leaning it 1/8 - 1/4 turn at a time until you can just get it to idle, no further. Once it starts to run and heat up, richen it 1/16th at a time like I stated above. Once the first tank is done let it cool start it up and start your driving break in. Once you can get it to put around, quick bursts of throttle can be used to clear out the engine. As long as you have a nice trail of some coming out of the exhaust and your temps are low (200~220) you will be fine. Here is good link to plain and simple directions for break in of any RC MT engine. Dont forget to fully charge the glow ignitor, and fresh fuel and baterries, also a new glow plug with a hot range is better for break in. Once its broken in you can switch to a cooler plug when you lean it out.


Common sense break in.
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Old 06-14-2003, 02:58 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Well.. Try this.

From your setting.. reduce the LSN by 1/2 turn every time and try to start it.

As soon as it starts (and runs without the ignitor), Keep it a little revvy and TEMP it and adjust the LSN so it stays around 215.

Also another thing you can do is After the engine starts.. Revv it up to about 15-20% throttle and HOLD it at there while you remove the glow plug.

That should keep it from shutting off.

I dont know if this is it but your set screw might also be opened too little. That can cause idling problems. Maybe your air filter is too restrictive?!

Good luck!
ram
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Old 06-14-2003, 06:02 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

You know I dont think any of that is the case, cause if the engine runs with the plug warmer for 5 minutes, that tells you that your settings are not that far off, its just that the engine is so tight, that you need to let it loosen up before you can expect to get it running good, a trick ive learned and used many times(especisly on the 8 port) is just leave the darn plug warmer on through the first couple of tanks, and as you start to lean it out, it should run on its own, if not just keep it on there until it does. BTW the low speed needle needs to be flush or just a hair in. DONT TOUCH THE MID RANGE NEEDLE, leave it at flush!!
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Old 06-14-2003, 02:46 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Originally posted by adeoliver
You know I dont think any of that is the case, cause if the engine runs with the plug warmer for 5 minutes, that tells you that your settings are not that far off, its just that the engine is so tight,
That couldnt be farther from the truth. The tightness of the engine has nothing to do with the glow plug. If its starting and running, its not to tight. The glow plug is kept glowing by the heat from combustion process. The fresh fuel mixture in the cylinder cools the glow plug down with every "intake" stroke. If you have too rich a mixtrure, it cools it down to the point where it cant support combustion. By keeping the ignitor on it, you are supporting combustion by artificially warming the the plug. It is a tell tale rock solid sign it is way to rich.
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Old 06-14-2003, 03:18 PM
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Default Another thing it could be is,

The glow plug! When braking in a egine your plug can last 20 tanks or 2 mins! Just because it is new does not mean it is still good! I have had good luck and bad when it comes to glow plugs! I have gone through 5 in as many tanks and have had one last for over a gallon! Keep it simple!
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Old 06-15-2003, 03:56 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Swapped out plug to a McCoy#9 and it fired on one pull today. Kept ingnitor on plug for about 30 seconds, then removed it and it ran it's way through 2 idle tanks(let it cool between tanks) with the idle trim set higher. I let it cool, reduced idle trim, and fired it up again, but when I just blipped the throttle, it kept dying. Also, I should mention that it's spitting TONS of oil(running rich but I'm worried about leaning it out during the break-in). Should I lean the low end a bit? What to do???? Thanks....
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:14 AM
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Default Sounds like,

It is running a bit too rich even for break-in! You should leave the LSN at factory and lean out the HSN! JMO And I mean the factory setting in the book not how it came to you! The setting that it was at when you got it seems way too rich! I do not know what the books settings are but, if you have the manule use those settings!
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:25 AM
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Default Re: Another thing it could be is,

Originally posted by Legendary
The glow plug! When braking in a egine your plug can last 20 tanks or 2 mins! Just because it is new does not mean it is still good! I have had good luck and bad when it comes to glow plugs! I have gone through 5 in as many tanks and have had one last for over a gallon! Keep it simple!

he is right it happened to me i just put a newly opened from the package glow plug and the same thing happened to me i checked it its glowin but when i use it ..it will fir it up but once i take off the igniter it dies ..doesnt matter how i let it stay like that keeps dyin out ...so went to rcu did the same thing and did what they told me ..change the glow plug ..i did and it worked...i think ledgend also is the one who told me that..thank you glow plug superhero!
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:33 AM
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Default LOL!

Too funny! Like I said "Keep it simple"! If I had a engine that was as hard to tune as the 2.5 can be I would not want to be messing around with those needles too much once I had it right! So, if it started acting up go to the simple and easy things to do like the plug or a clogged fuel filter before you start changing the mixture settings (If it ran good before)!

I just had the same problem last week when I broke-in my new .21! It went through 3 plugs in 4 tanks of fuel! It runs great now and I hate it when that happens ($4-$5 a plug)!
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:37 AM
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Default Re: Sounds like,

Originally posted by Legendary
It is running a bit too rich even for break-in! You should leave the LSN at factory and lean out the HSN! JMO
Really?.... you would lean the high speed needle for an idle problem.......interesting?
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:42 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

i just dont know how to bring the thread i made but its title is savage help ..try to find it..but change your glo pugs first
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Old 06-15-2003, 04:45 AM
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Default Re: Re: Sounds like,

Originally posted by Avalanche
Really?.... you would lean the high speed needle for an idle problem.......interesting?
If he has it set to factory settings (The High and Low) yes, I would lean out the HSN first and just a bit at a time like an 1/8 of a turn. Seems to me that people have the most trouble when they start messing with the low end!
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Old 06-15-2003, 05:05 AM
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Default Just to add to what I was getting at!

Avalanche, I think he does not have his carb set to factory settings the way it is now! If he has it at 3.5 turns out from flush that would be too rich I am guessing If the factory settings are flush? If he sets it to what I think is the correct setting (Flush) more than likely it will run just fine but, if it is still too rich or too lean at that point I would adjust the HSN! I hope all of this makes some sort of sense!LOL
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Old 06-15-2003, 11:41 AM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Hey Guys...the LSN is flush, and I haven't touched it from the factory. I've only messed with the HSN. Right now, the HSN is open 4.5 turns from closed as described by Ofna's Manual.....
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Old 06-15-2003, 01:56 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

That MC-59 is a great plug. A nice hot plug for 21s!

Tuning a 3 needle carb is still in my "To-Learn" list so I'l stop here!

ram
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Old 06-15-2003, 02:18 PM
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Default StingRay,

Try leaning it out a bit by turning in the HSN after the egine is at temp! If it is loading up it is running too rich and needs to be leaned a bit! You can also turn in your idle screw in a bit to keep it running while you are tunning it and after you get a good tune you can set a good idle!
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Old 06-15-2003, 03:34 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

FYI............ I cant believe what I'm hearing here.

Leaning your HSN will do nothing to help your idle problem. You need to lean the LSN a bit. The HSN will only lean your full throttle setting. HSN = high speed needle (open throttle)
LSN = Low speed needle, (idle and just off idle)
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Old 06-15-2003, 05:05 PM
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Default FYI,

You always start with the HSN first and move on to the LSN if needed!

The hardest part of 1/8 scale racing is fine-tuning the engine. You need to learn this on your own. Spend some time, even an entire practice day, developing this skill. Always remember, it never hurts to have the fuel mixture too rich, but never, NEVER let the mixture get too lean.



Basic tuning procedure is as follows:

1 - set the engine’s idle speed up slightly higher than normal
2 - start tuning your engine with the settings too rich
3 - always tune top end first
4 - tune bottom end next
5 - reset idle speed


You tune the engine by measuring the engine’s temperature, and making the required adjustments to make the temperature correct. There are two ways to measure the engine’s temperature:

a) Temperature gauge method: Get the engine up to running temperature, bring the car into the pits and immediately take a temperature reading. Place the temperature gauge directly over the engine, pointed at the glow plug, and take a reading. It’s easier to do if you have a second person to take the readings for you.

b) Spit method: Get the engine up to running temperature, then pull in as quickly as possible and put some spit on the engine’s cylinder head (quickly, so as to not burn your finger). The saliva should just slowly boil off (2 to 3 seconds). It should NOT dance around as if it were on a hot griddle, nor should it lay there and steam. In short, if your spittle will sizzle, it's too hot.



If the engine is too rich, the engine temperature will be colder than desired (and vice versa). If the engine is too lean, the engine temperature will be hotter than desired. Go out on the track with the top end rich. If you have got the mixture set right, there will be heavy smoke from the engine on the straightaway. Run four or five full laps to get the engine up to running temperature before touching the carb. Bring the car in, and take a temperature reading. Start leaning out the top end by turning the adjusting screw only 1/12 turn at a time (picture a clock’s 12 even spaces). Take your time doing the adjusting - don’t be in a hurry. It may take a while. Your goal will be to get the car to just "punch clean" when you come onto the straightaway, which is what it will do when the mixture is set properly. For 1/8 scale cars, you will have the correct mixture when the temperature is about 200 degrees. The 1/10 scale cars run a little hotter, maybe around 250 degrees.



Once you think you have the top end set, run 3 or 4 laps, then stop the car close to you on the track and let it idle for 5 seconds, then "push off". It should have slightly loaded up, but still accelerate quickly. If the engine died before the 5 seconds, check the following:

If the engine seemed to load up and slowly stop, it was probably too rich.

If the engine’s idle speed increased before it stopped, it was probably too lean.



Always run a few laps before testing bottom end and idle. Ron likes his car to idle clean for 5 seconds, but by 6 or 7 seconds his engine loads up when he punches off (heavy smoke with a slight stumble). At this point you may have to re-adjust the engine’s idle speed. If the idle speed is too high, the clutch will not release completely and you will lose "snap" off the corners. If the idle speed is too low, the engine may stall on the starting line, or at the end of the straightaway when you let off the throttle.



Things to Remember:

1 - Never try to tune a cold engine!
2 - Adjust top end first
3 - Always tune from rich to lean. If in doubt, richen it up first.
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Old 06-16-2003, 12:35 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

This engine is really beginning to piss me off....right now, all needles are at factory. Went to start it up today and nothing. Changed glow plug...nothing(yes, starter was fully charged). I'm beginning to think that there may be an air leak...but new from the factory? I've been scouring all of the forums to find that this engine is VERY problematic. But there are many who love it. I may have received a lemon.....not happy right now I do appreciate all of your help guys, it it much appreciated. There's no need to argue about who's right and wrong. I'm taking in all of the information I can and will try to apply all of it to getting this engine running right.
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:35 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Originally posted by Stingray
This engine is really beginning to piss me off....right now, I've been scouring all of the forums to find that this engine is VERY problematic.
hey bro you're not alone. Wait until you start breaking your pullstart. A little bit of advice to you is when you got to replace your pullstarter, BUY 3 OF THEM, you'll probably need them. If not you've always got spares. Everyone keeps saying to buy an electric start for this engine in other forums. Sorry that don't work in this beast. Unless the roto start fits and I know it doesn't. Goodluck and yes flush is the proper factory setting on the LSN. I just got my second Hyper 8 port in the mail yesterday so that's how I verified that.
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Old 06-16-2003, 01:59 PM
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Default Hyper 8 Port Break-In?

Definatley get yourself an extra pullstart.I couldn't find one instock for the longest time until out of sheer luck my LHS had one in stock so I picked it up.My 8 port fired up after about 10 pulls and sat there and idled threw the whole tank on my savage and fired up everytime after that with 3-4 tugs.The stock settings are a little on the rich side.My truck was spitting out fuel like it was free but after two tanks I leaned it down 1/4 turn and it was still rich but it did run a little better.What type of air filter are you using?With that rich of a setting and a small filter it won't get enough air so maybe try leaning it 1/4 turn from the factory settings and then try starting it.
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Old 06-16-2003, 04:28 PM
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Default I don't know how well these work but,

If you are breaking a lot of pull starts then this may help! It's on Ebay 3134991059 It is a steel cable pull start and should be a lot stronger than the regular nylon rope ones! It fits the Ofna .25 and the Hyper .21!
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