glock_19

Hey all.... First post and new to Nitro RC. Bought myself a HPI MT2 for Xmas....

It took me forever to get the engine tuned after a proper beak-in. Today it is like 80 deg F in Florida and it is the first time running in hot conditions. Previous days were around 20 deg cooler.

Anyway's my temps were around 280F and I had a nice slight stream of smoke under full acceleration. So I riched it up a bit to cool it down and the power went in the pooper. If I leaned it out the power came right back....

So the question is, is it more important to make sure that you have decent smoke, or keep the temp below 270? or both?

Thanks
Glock

Nitro Rustler Racer

your engine should be tuned that you have a good bit of smoke coming out, and you have the power you want, but really a good engine tuned is around 275F and good bit of smoke

The_Collector

I never tune for temp--even at break in. I don't own any temp guns or monitors. It's best to tune the engine by ear. If an engine is running properly, it will settle to it's own temp, be it 230 or 280. Make sure you have enough airflow to the cylinder head and using the proper fuel and glow plug.

zzman

My Feedback: (3)

280 is a bit much IMO - 250 260 is about perfect......
if you want to cool it more then drill holes in your windshield . or make holes to cool it in diff ways?

Midget

if its tuned right you shouldn't need to drill holes in the windshield,
and pulse if you drill holes in it your just making the body weaker

zzman

My Feedback: (3)

depends how many you put in it? [X(]

dont put so many in that it will make it weak, just put a few (like 5) in it and you will be fine. in hot weather the holes do help more than you think. i have even cut the grill out and used the material in airbags from cars to shoo goo it on so air still flows but dirt stays out. you can get the air bag at any junk yard cheap -sometimes free- ....they make hood scoops also.

another thing is to make certain your cooling fins on your head are clean. if there is dirt between then it wont cool proper. and you can change your plug- cool to hot.

avg_joe

Keep in mind, that after your break in, the engine isn't magically 'ready'. The piston and sleeve are still pretty tight, and have a good pinch at the top of the stroke.
It will run warmer than 'normal' for the first 1/2 gallon. Just continue to run it at 220 to 270...The power will come.

I always cut a hole in the windshield, and a hole over the cooling head for cooling.(depending on the body, you usually have to cut around the head)
This hole also doubles as a refeuling hole, so I don't have to take the body off to refuel.
As long as you radius the corners of your hole(or just make it round), and try to stay away from corners, and high stress areas that are prone to cracking, your body shouldn't suffer integrity issues.

sly2136

this is the quickest way i know how to do it i start out rich just to the point where it 4 cycles then lean it 1/4 turn and its perfect every time

sly2136

using this way of tuning you don't need a temp gauge just listen to the tune

glock_19

Thank you all for your inputs... I believe I found the problem.

After a wreck last weekend, it appears my slipper clutch was knocked out of whack, causing my mesh to be out of whack, most likely putting extra strain on the engine causing the heat rise.

I was running without a body on it so I had the best cooling possible and still had the high temps. I need to run it sometime today to see if I really solved the problem.

Thanks
Glock

ChevyM14

hay Glock, why did you pick that name? from my pic you can see why I my name is ChevyM14
<-------

cohma

Hey Glock?

Guess what? I just got into Nitro, too. I bought the Savage LE for Xmas myself. But guess what haha. I'm from Melbourne, too. Wanna hook up sometime and go out? Right now I have to wait for some parts that I ordered from the Hobby Store (where do you go to? I go to Space Coast Hobbies...) to get the truck back up running due to my last little incident...

Just write me a PM on this Forum.

Me and the Hobbyshop guy behind the counter want to get some people together to form a little group...

badz

My Feedback: (1)

275F? Are you crazy? I run in over 100F temps in summer and don't get near 275F....thats not proper tuning at that temp it's called inproper tuning...275F is danger point in nitro's...your running those temps what you get 20oz's thru a engine til it's poofed? Try running something better than 10% fuel if it's that hot or fix ya air leaks

FGPower999

There is no set temperature range for a Nitro engine to run at. The proper way to tune these engines is to ditch the temp guage, and tune by performance and smoke trail. Optimum engine performance will come at different temps each day, depending on ambient temp, humidity, elevation, etc. 275F is perfectly fine, as long as the engine is not running lean. Running at less than 200F will destroy an engine much faster than running at 300F. This is because of the expansion properties of the metals that make up the piston and sleeve, which are brass, chromium, aluminum, and silicon. The sleeve is tapered towards the top, and is designed to expand at a very similar rate as the piston, but slightly faster, so at around 200F, the "pinch" you feel at the top of the stroke is relieved, and running at temps below this will wear the cylindrical piston into this taper, so when the engine does finnally reach proper operating temp (200F - 300F) there is no compression left. Ditch the temp gun, and tne for optimum performance. 275F is fine as long as you are not running lean.

BOOGIE66

275 - 300F is running to lean and will shorten engine life cause your engine isnt getting enof fuel / oil. Proper temps for any engine should be in the 220-250F for maxium engine life. 275F is considered MAXIUM temperature for no engine damage, remeber your engine will cool down a good 10 degrees by the time you walk over to it and take its temperature.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

Dont pay any attention to FGPower999 he's a troll has been being banned from here and returning for months....as you can tell by his post he's clueless...I've yet to see any nitro engine manual say 275 is a ok temp...most warn against hitting 270

glock_19

I have a CCW and a Glock 19 was my chosen weapon. I have since added a G26 to my collection, but kept the original name.

Glock

FGPower999

Do not listen to what badz is saying, he has no idea what he is talking about, which is evident when he posts. My info is derived from professional engine builders and tuners, ask anyone who knows what they are talking about and they will back my info up. Anyone who says an engine will blow up under any circumstances running at over 270 has no idea what they are talking about.. period. My info is valid, and truthful, badz and Boggie's info is completely invalid. Do not listen to what they are saying. The melting point of the metals in the engines is well over 600F, and the lubricants do not begin to break down until about 700F, meaning that as long as your engine is not running lean and is producing a good smoke trail, temps do not matter. Tuning by temps is a common Newbie mistake, tuning by smoke trail and performance is what experienced people do. I have had engines last over 11 gallons (stock Savage engine) running at around 300F. Badz, once again, you have no idea what you are talking about, you are so stupid you make me laugh.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

Post you idiotic reply in the Engine's forums...Let's see if OS who's manual claims not to exceed 270 agree's with you. Like I said prove your statements. Your 13 years old and a troll, you haven't been banned off RCU over 50 times for nothing.

FGPower999

Every time you post my abs get a workout from all the laughing. Your beliefs are too funny, and your so called information has no credibility whatsoever. Keep on posting the bull**** replies and misleading people around you. 13 years old? HAHAHAHA where did you get that? Once again, you make yourself look like an idiot with every post.

FGPower999

To those who are challenging my opinions and saying I am "clueless", why dont you head over to www.fantomracing.com and read their engine manual regarding temperature and expansion rates. Alright, I will save you the trouble. Direct from the Fantom engine manual, known as the BIBLE of ABC engines:

ENGINE OPERATIONAL GUIDELINES
This section covers important information useful in understanding the what, how and why of your new engine. To get a full understanding of the remainder of this manual, it is important that we cover some basic principles first. Please make sure you fully understand this section of the manual before proceeding.

Your new Fantom engine is built using the latest ABC technology (aluminum, brass, chrome). Expansion of the piston is controlled by the percentage of silicon in the aluminum alloy; by matching the piston expansion to the expansion of the chromeplated brass cylinder-sleeve
 both at normal operating temperatures (220Âș-290Âș F), the best running-fit can be obtained. (This subject will be covered in more detail, later in the manual, in the “Break-In” section.) The cooling fin area of the cylinder head regulates the temperature.

When a carburetor mixture is set properly, the temperature of the engine should be of little concern. The flash point of certain modern lubricants found in high quality fuels is generally a minimum of 700Âș F; meaning as long as you are using high quality fuel, your engine is protected even in extreme temperature conditions
 IF THE AIR-FUEL MIXTURE IS NOT SET LEAN.

Unfortunately, over the years it has become customary to set the main needle valve by engine cylinder head temperature (usually called temperature tuning); however, this is a bad practice. Temperature tuning can lead to overly rich or overly lean needle settings – both can damage an ABC-type engine. Depending on the operating conditions (e.g., weather conditions, altitude, surface you are running on, fuel type, etc.), we have found that the FR21 and FR27 cylinder head temperatures (taken with a temperature gun; aiming down inside at the glow plug area of the cylinder head) will generally range between 220Âș and 290Âș F; however, do not “temperature tune” to these temperatures.

Badz, you may now eat your words.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

Actually....thats things edited....here's the real manual....But then again as always YOUR so right Mr Troll. LOL why'd ya edit Fantom's info if your so right? Also...he's running a MT2....so your info is useless....as wrong as it is...the MT2 engine manual shows the following temps....maybe you should call HPI and tell them they don't know what their talking about huh

FGPower999

Edited? Why dont you go over and actually look at the PDF file, do you actually think I would post some edited info and then post a link to the original source? I am not stupid like you. HPI doesnt know much about their own cars. I phoned their technical support line when I was a Newbie asking for the Savage screw sizes.. they told me they were all 6mm and 8mm. You are wrong, my info is not edited, and your are retarded. Quote from the info you posted:

If you are concerned about these higher operating temperatures, keep in mind that the flash
point (burn point) of protective lubricants, found in high quality fuel, is generally a minimum of 700Âș F; meaning as long as you
are using high quality fuel, your engine is protected even at higher operating temperatures, IF THE AIR-FUEL MIXTURE IS NOT
SET LEAN.

Thanks for agreeing with me and contradicting yourself.

The best advice you can be given: Tune your engine for maximum performance while maintaining a blue smoke trail, and dont worry about temps. If it is running at 275F, but it is not showing signs of running lean, then it is fine. The only time you need to worry about temps is when the engine is too cold, under 200F, because at this point the sleeve has not expanded to relieve the pinch, and the piston will wear into the sleeves taper, and when it finally does get up to temp, you will have no compression left. Badz, you mentioned in another thread that you only get 2-3 gallons out of a Nitro engine. I have 11 gallons on my stock Savage motor (shelved now for more power) and it is still going like the day I bought it. It was ran at 300-320F all its life. Perhaps you need to rethink your tuning method and listen to those who know better than you.

Valve

It doesn't matter that the oil and lubes can withstand the heat. Too much heat is going to kill the engines compression from the sleeve over expanding. It doesn't matter what engine it is, or from what company, anything over 260 is simply TOO HOT. The best race temps, for both power and life, are from 210-240, though some engines like to run around 250.

Fantom's recommended run temps were 280-320 degrees for their FR18. A couple years ago when I was newer to RC, I didn't think twice about their unusually high run temps. After a heat cycle break in, I started to tune the engine to run about 270-280. It still had good smoke, so I figured I was doing everything right. WRONG. The engine ran awesome for the first gallon, seeing as how its pinch was so tight from the factory. After the one gallon mark, the compression just went down the drain in a matter of just one more quart. No air leaks, just an expanded sleeve. If you run your engine over 270, it will not last. If you claim those temps and that your engine has been running well for several gallons, I won't beleive you.

badz

My Feedback: (1)

Valve he's just a troll....he's been banned off rcu over 35 times he just keeps coming back...he must have 1000 names on here and everyone of them all he does is ride people and start arguments, he's been banned off almost every rc forum around he's some 13yo kid whose parents need to give a good beating too